RC doesn't believe the gun story? Do you?

[Maia]

I guess if we knew where the "scene" was, I might could rule out shooting. But we don't know. I don't even think LE knows so who knows what any witnesses might have heard...they might not even know they are witnesses. I know guns are important here, and the only reason I can see is murder weapon. But that being said I have often wondered if there was not another dead body floating around out there that tied into this mess some how. Right now, an accidental shooting makes the most sense to me.

You are absolutely correct, tehcloser. We don't know where the "scene" was. My post was shortsighted and only addressing the areas of the different residences. And I agree that an accidental shooting could have happened. :slap:
I should have posted that I don't believe it because I don't want to believe it. I just can not wrap my head around it...I just can't.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is possible whoever killed Haleigh was there looking for either drugs or a gun; those two items are the currency in RC's world. Haleigh was harmed/killed as a result, if indirectly. But I can't see it being a gun that killed her, as I agree with other posters that there should be evidence/witnesses.

I think that the motive (to be there) could have easily have been drugs as guns, but RC does not like to bring drugs into it, as he seems to feel that reflects worse on him than stolen guns.

 

[kant]

The gun story has never made sense to me and I dont believe it.

If neighbors of the Cummings can hear a scream as they claim, then they can hear a gunshot, imo.

These folks wouldnt be able to clean every trace of a gunshot scene.

I know people have said that intentional shootings can be such that there is minimized splatter, but if a gunshot happened in this case, I'd think it an accident.

There could have been a gunshot at another location/home (that has not been searched) But if that were so, then the gun being "stolen" part still doesnt make sense bc how is it stolen from Ron's home if it's not IN Ron's home in the first place.

If that were true, why not just say it in the beginning?

I dont think Misty even remembered hanging flyers with Joe, much less that someone would have snapped a photo as proof. Therefore she woudlnt realize, when hatching the story, how confounding it looks that she calmly (or apparently not in obvious distress at being in Joe's presence) strolled around town hanging flyers with the crazed murderer from whom she had supposedly cowered the night before.

Also, I think what happened was not intentional even if it was wrong/illegal in nature; So I cant get on board with this child-for-gun substitution story bc it sounds intentional - even if spur of the moment. Also, if "Joe" were intent on acquiring a firearm, whether "promised," "owed" or not, if he were THAT intent as to become enraged, it seems the gun was what he was seeking and a child wouldnt serve his purpose.

Unless that points to molestation. I've read some linguistics theories about interviews in which the words "blankets" "water" etc are prevalent being indicative of sexual abuse, but I cant get my head around the notion that that night was the first time and that on the first time it all goes to hell in a handcart for them.

And if it werent the first time, it seems there'd have been prior evidence to that effect particularly since Crystal had routine visits with the children and would have seen something or been told something or had a clue somehow imo.

Also, the pièce de résistance, no wait -- the coups de grâce, well anyway, whatever I'm trying to say, the main reason I dont believe it is that none of this gun story (as it stands now in its current rendition) would explain Ron's words and actions since day one.

Just for starters, if Ron weren't involved there'd be no need for him to participate in (imo) a badly thought-out, poorly rehearsed, and grossly over-acted 911 call. And according to FBI statistics, for what it's worth, many times in cases that are eventually solved, whoever turns out later to be found the perp was the one who got another individual to make, or at least initiate, the 911 call.... for what it's worth. Also, Ron was legally the adult, the bio parent, the resident of the home and again, for cryin out loud, he's the child's father why didnt HE make the call to initiate the report? Then if need be, put Misty on the phone for questions. (FBI link here - but scroll very far down to find it by the title below)

"911 Calls and Statement Analysis," 2008, by Dr. Susan H Adams

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm

Nor would there be a need for him to (imo) stage a crime scene with a wide open bricked door, and to apparently make himself deliberately seen on a quick mart camera and on and on.

Add that to Neves' and Sykes' odd accounts and inconsistencies which, imo, point only to covering for Ron.

In closing, if there were actually an element of truth to the gun story - as in if there were a gun truly involved in an altercation, accident, whatever - my guess is that Mr. Cummings was the one brandishing it. I'll stop there.

moo

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[dodie20]

It's hard to not take personal experiences , & because of them, make rash judgements, & lose some objectivity. I've personally seen the rages associated with xanax abuse, so when Tommy admitted to being as high as a kite on xanax that night, I jumped to the conclusin that he was the one who was raging. But if Joe was around, & I'm guessing he was, I would bet that he had been 'partying' with Tommy. & what about Misty? even though she was reportedly exausted, & needed sleep, young druggies have a high tolerance & can keep on a going. so, was she on xanax too? Druggies like to do the same drugs, share the experience, so to speak, so it's possible that they were all really, really messed up. could all 3 have been raging? now, that's a scary thought. Hearing that Misty was in the yard, crying on the phone, points to her not being on xanax...at least to me. & on the 911, she didn't sound that out of it...confused , ignorant, shocked, & scared. That was my interpretation. but does that point to the gun story not being true? maybe. but maybe she was in on the gun theft, (as Gmaw Flo said), but things went awry? & that explains her shock? shocked that things didn't go as planned, & got so out of control, so fast? From the beginning, I judged Misty as a person who put up a fight for Haleigh, so I'm not buying that she just hid, while Tommy stood by. I do believe I'm a pretty good judge of character, & that's something that I've been pretty sure about, from the beginning. But how involved was Joe? that's the main question. Was he the raging perp? or was he the unwilling sidekick? one other thing...I don't think anybody in Misty's family was scared of Ron, or respected him. Timmy calling Ron a FAB, & Chelsea's attitude on the phone, was very dismissive. I think they may have decided to double cross him, steal his guns & dope, & were pizzed, when it fell through. But I don't think anybody took Haleigh in retaliation. there's no logic there. maybe a raging psycho, simply seized an opportunity to get a child. so...I guess I'm leaning towards the gun incident being semi true, but Haleigh's abduction being a seperate incident.

 

[luvthesleuths]

In light of Joe's recent drug bust. Maybe he was in florida to deliver dope, and RC owed him money for it, when J didn't get the money he stole a gun (the incident that happened at Croslins parents house) RC ridiculed him took the gun back and told him he would get his money. The night before J was leaving to go back home he still hadn't gotten his money, RC was at work and he went there in a rage to take something of value to get back at RC, when the house was clean of guns he took Haleigh

Another scenerio and perhaps a reason for MC to keep her mouth shut, is MC and Joe were in cahoots to steal the gun and sell it for a cut of the money. They were all at the mobile home partying and when it was time for Joe to go, no gun could be found anywhere (after all the dope was gone) Maybe MC didn't realize RC had taken all of the guns from the home (most likely hiding them till he knew J left town) and Joe maybe thought MC was in on it to belittle him once again, nut first did all his drugs so Joe flew into drugged out rage threatened to kill them all, MC knowing she couldn't tell RC cause she would have to admit she was in on a scam against him.

Ack- with this bunch who knows!
Where is poor Haleigh!

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I'm going into someone's house to steal a gun with others already in the house. I get upset because the gun isn't there. Furious, I grab the nearest kid. Now what do I do with that kid? Rape her? With an audience? Beat her? Maybe. Just to show 'em not to mess with me. But there's still that peksy audience.

So I threaten the audience, with another weapon, because I don't have the gun I wanted to steal. What am I holding? Another gun? A knife? My fist? A rope? Poison? The candlestick?

So I'm holding the audience off with my mystery weapon. I either rape the kid, while threatening the others, or I beat her, strangle her, smother her. They keep watching me. Or has one disappeared under the covers?

Time to carry the body of the child out of the house. I'll take one of the spectators, leaving the other one under her covers. I'm a scary dude, with my mystery weapon, forcing the witness out the door while I carry the lifeless child, knowing the witness is too afraid of me to call 911, even though I'm no longer there.

What is wrong with that picture? :waitasec:

Now, this story is more believable IF those "witnesses" turned out to be co-conspirators. Let's have a secret party. We'll do drugs, maybe use the children for our fun and games, steal guns, money, drugs, whatever we can find. Something goes wrong and one child dies. With help of my co-conspirators, we dispose of the lifeless child.

Sure, I could believe this. BUT, what about Junior? Little Butterbean doesn't remember all this. He had vague recollections of a bouncing couch, a "black" man in black taking his sissy. Was he drugged? Was he even there? Was anyone at the mobile home that night? Could the party, the confrontation, the event have been elsewhere, which is why the MH is clean?

I'm going to agree with RC on this one. The story isn't believable as they are telling it. Let's not forget, Misty was out hanging posters with that skeeeery guy just hours later. What is wrong with that picture???

Now maybe they've screwed up the originally planned story, it sounds outrageous, so to cover his rear, RC claims, "I don't believe it", while thinking, these fools can't even tell a story after eleven months of rehearsals? I believe they are covering something far more sinister, something they don't want know. What on earth could that be? :cow:

 

[Gotarugrat]

Someone tries to steal a gun and shoots the child instead.

I haven't read the whole thread so if I'm repeating what someone else said, I'm sorry.

I may be swayed to believe that Haleigh was killed by a gun shot wound, but I do not believe that the it was intentional. I believe it was an accident. Whether Tommy was playing with the gun, or Misty was showing it to someone and it was loaded and went off...I don't know. I still lean toward RC knowing the truth about what happened to Haleigh, but keeping "plausible deniability" by not knowing exactly where her body is if you catch what I'm saying. I'm still of the impression that if she was killed by a gun was stolen/not legal in some way.
Are there any reports of supposed gun shots by any of the locals?

They would have been smarter to just admit to an accident in the beginning. I can't believe that keeping a secret about an illegal gun would be worth more than your child's life.

 

[Gotarugrat]

I dont believe that crew would be able to cover up a shooting if it happened...JMVHO.

Agreed. There would be blood everywhere.

 

[TrialAddict]

The gun story could have been used to cover for what really happened. I am thinking, Nay Nay's story may be closer to the truth. Then Misty, Tommy and Joe went back to the home and started the cover up. , Joe has since been thrown under the bus by, Tommy and Misty, to cover their own hide? JMOO

 

[s1rebecca]

I think the gun was involved somehow but my moneys on the theif that's already in jail and his brother that moved out of state. Jo seems like a scape goat to me. One other thought If they believe Jo is involved I wonder if they got a warrant to search the vehicle jos parents drove to Mexico. She could be anywhere between here and there. All JMO of course!

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I don't believe there was a gun involved. I don't believe RC was involved. I don't believe JO was involved. I believe only two were involved, and one of them might have been involved after the fact to help the other cover up the death of Haleigh. And those two are the ones that keep pointing the finger at others and changing the story as it suits them or when they think it is in their best interests to do so.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I guess if we knew where the "scene" was, I might could rule out shooting. But we don't know. I don't even think LE knows so who knows what any witnesses might have heard...they might not even know they are witnesses. I know guns are important here, and the only reason I can see is murder weapon. But that being said I have often wondered if there was not another dead body floating around out there that tied into this mess some how. Right now, an accidental shooting makes the most sense to me.

A drug dealer, maybe? Has any drug dealer "moved" away from the area? Any one else reported missing in the area? I believe the PCSO site has several wanted criminals and missing persons listed. Could that "extra body" be one of them? Is the family covering for fear of being retaliated against? Seems a bit of a stretch, but with that group, one never knows.

 

[Wescott]

I don't believe there was a gun involved. I don't believe RC was involved. I don't believe JO was involved. I believe only two were involved, and one of them might have been involved after the fact to help the other cover up the death of Haleigh. And those two are the ones that keep pointing the finger at others and changing the story as it suits them or when they think it is in their best interests to do so.

Totally agree. I think Tommy was at the house strung out Misty was too tired, hungover, dope sick etc. after her binge to take care of him, and Haleigh became her substitute. I tend to believe that she was indeed hiding under the covers to block it out. IMO

 

[krkrjx]

(snipped)

Now, this story is more believable IF those "witnesses" turned out to be co-conspirators. Let's have a secret party. We'll do drugs, maybe use the children for our fun and games, steal guns, money, drugs, whatever we can find. Something goes wrong and one child dies. With help of my co-conspirators, we dispose of the lifeless child.

Yes, this going-there-to-steal-a-gun-but-stealing-a-child-instead story makes no sense to me, but your version does. Their being there to party and sitting around making comments or joking about robbing RC of his stash of drugs or guns to the point of actually doing it is believable. Or, even if there was no attempted theft, Haleigh could have been present during the party and somehow things started happening involving her--without premeditation or intent, but evolved to the point of no return.

If whatever happened was the result of party-goers behaving badly, they all played a part and then conspired to cover.

But even with this easier to swallow theory, we have Ronald Cummings' suspicious behavior/statements. His actions defy explanation. I have not been able to grasp any theory and really go with it, because of him.

 

[dodie20]

I haven't read the whole thread so if I'm repeating what someone else said, I'm sorry.

I may be swayed to believe that Haleigh was killed by a gun shot wound, but I do not believe that the it was intentional. I believe it was an accident. Whether Tommy was playing with the gun, or Misty was showing it to someone and it was loaded and went off...I don't know. I still lean toward RC knowing the truth about what happened to Haleigh, but keeping "plausible deniability" by not knowing exactly where her body is if you catch what I'm saying. I'm still of the impression that if she was killed by a gun was stolen/not legal in some way.
Are there any reports of supposed gun shots by any of the locals?

They would have been smarter to just admit to an accident in the beginning. I can't believe that keeping a secret about an illegal gun would be worth more than your child's life.

well, it might not have been just the illegal gun...where there's smoke, there's fire, so there were probably a lot of illegal activities to cover-from not only Ron, but all of the players. & Ron had custody of Jr to consider, & CPS had already been breathing down his neck, & he also had the problem of the underaged gf. So, if Ron knew what happened, & I think he did, his main priorites could've become about covering his own hide & keeping Jr. & I'm not bashing Ron, because this theory makes him not 'responsible', but there's no way to sift through this, without factoring in his behavior. On the jailhouse tape, between Misty & Chelsea, Misty was pretty convincing that Ron wasn't 'involved'. She had a dismissive, 'he's beside the point', attitude towards him, & I could be wrong, but I believed her. & it blew me away. But like I said, I think Ron knew. When the Shell Harbor search was going on, his reaction struck me as odd, to say the least, & I couldn't fight the feeling that Ron was impressed that Misty had LE on yet another wild goose chase...not necessarily relieved, but impressed. I detected that same attitude when he was talking about Misty from behind bars, about how he didn't know how being locked up hadn't gotten to her yet, because it was driving him crazy. which I have to admit, made me wonder, (again), if he had been covering for her all along. So, if Ron truly isn't buying the gun story, it's because he knows it's not true, & he sees no reason, (in his self preservationist mind), to bring his guns into the fray. But about him covering for Misty...if that's so, he has made some contradictory statements. but that could simply be Ron's attempt to point out, that he had been with Misty, because he trusted her, & not because he covered for her. IDK.

 

[kant]

I'm going into someone's house to steal a gun with others already in the house. I get upset because the gun isn't there. Furious, I grab the nearest kid. Now what do I do with that kid? Rape her? With an audience? Beat her? Maybe. Just to show 'em not to mess with me. But there's still that peksy audience.

So I threaten the audience, with another weapon, because I don't have the gun I wanted to steal. What am I holding? Another gun? A knife? My fist? A rope? Poison? The candlestick?

So I'm holding the audience off with my mystery weapon. I either rape the kid, while threatening the others, or I beat her, strangle her, smother her. They keep watching me. Or has one disappeared under the covers?

Time to carry the body of the child out of the house. I'll take one of the spectators, leaving the other one under her covers. I'm a scary dude, with my mystery weapon, forcing the witness out the door while I carry the lifeless child, knowing the witness is too afraid of me to call 911, even though I'm no longer there.

What is wrong with that picture? :waitasec:

Now, this story is more believable IF those "witnesses" turned out to be co-conspirators. Let's have a secret party. We'll do drugs, maybe use the children for our fun and games, steal guns, money, drugs, whatever we can find. Something goes wrong and one child dies. With help of my co-conspirators, we dispose of the lifeless child.

Sure, I could believe this. BUT, what about Junior? Little Butterbean doesn't remember all this. He had vague recollections of a bouncing couch, a "black" man in black taking his sissy. Was he drugged? Was he even there? Was anyone at the mobile home that night? Could the party, the confrontation, the event have been elsewhere, which is why the MH is clean?

I'm going to agree with RC on this one. The story isn't believable as they are telling it. Let's not forget, Misty was out hanging posters with that skeeeery guy just hours later. What is wrong with that picture???

Now maybe they've screwed up the originally planned story, it sounds outrageous, so to cover his rear, RC claims, "I don't believe it", while thinking, these fools can't even tell a story after eleven months of rehearsals? I believe they are covering something far more sinister, something they don't want know. What on earth could that be? :cow:

Oh Lordy, you got me with the "candlestick" and the pesky audience.

You got me, girl.... woman... insert-acceptable-PC-term-here.

heh heh good one. I needed a smile today.



hugs

( PS ...candlestick -- I was waiting for, "Professor Plum, Colonel Mustard, or the butler... in the parlor..." -- or was it the conservatory?)


.

 

[kant]

Yes, this going-there-to-steal-a-gun-but-stealing-a-child-instead story makes no sense to me, but your version does. Their being there to party and sitting around making comments or joking about robbing RC of his stash of drugs or guns to the point of actually doing it is believable. Or, even if there was no attempted theft, Haleigh could have been present during the party and somehow things started happening involving her--without premeditation or intent, but evolved to the point of no return.

If whatever happened was the result of party-goers behaving badly, they all played a part and then conspired to cover.

But even with this easier to swallow theory, we have Ronald Cummings' suspicious behavior/statements. His actions defy explanation. I have not been able to grasp any theory and really go with it, because of him.

color & bbm

..... and there it is.


moo

 

[kant]

The gun story could have been used to cover for what really happened. I am thinking, Nay Nay's story may be closer to the truth. Then Misty, Tommy and Joe went back to the home and started the cover up. , Joe has since been thrown under the bus by, Tommy and Misty, to cover their own hide? JMOO

I am behind, so I need to ask what Nay Nay's story is. Sorry if this is old news, but somehow I missed it.

TIA

 

[TrialAddict]

I am behind, so I need to ask what Nay Nay's story is. Sorry if this is old news, but somehow I missed it.

TIA

(snipped)
...."Nay Nay said detectives confronted her with a witness statement claiming she was partying with Misty the night Haleigh vanished, and that the missing six year old accidentally overdosed on Oxycontin and died. the witness claimed they “freaked” out, and that another party participant named White Boy Greg, aka, Greg Page, scooped Haleigh’s body into a bag and drove to a nearby pond to toss her...."

 

[dodie20]

(snipped)
...."Nay Nay said detectives confronted her with a witness statement claiming she was partying with Misty the night Haleigh vanished, and that the missing six year old accidentally overdosed on Oxycontin and died. the witness claimed they “freaked” out, and that another party participant named White Boy Greg, aka, Greg Page, scooped Haleigh’s body into a bag and drove to a nearby pond to toss her...."

& that story is just as unfathomable as the Joe story. 'a baby dies? let's toss her into the pond & pretend she was kidnapped, while I was sleeping.' But something sinister did happen, so who knows...maybe one of these stories is true.