How can people keep quiet for years?

[Kimster]

This came up in my Interceder on the Kyron Horman case, but I felt it more revelent for discussion in Haleigh's case.

People who know what happened in a murder keep quiet for YEARS! Check this out:

As it turned out, Tim had been murdered by his employer, former Starry Night nightclub owner Larry Hurwitz. Although several other people knew what happened, they kept quiet for years. But when Hurwitz was convicted of income tax evasion in 1998, the press coverage – which included mention of Moreau’s disappearance – prompted people with inside knowledge to contact the police, eventually leading to Hurwitz’s arrest and conviction for murdering Tim.

&#8220;There were people who told us they came forward with inside information because of the press coverage,&#8221; Mike Moreau says.<snipped>

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128337191106651000

Let's use this thread to discuss old cases where witnesses kept quiet for years and what changes in the case caused them to speak out.

What will cause someone in this case to SPEAK UP and tell what they know???

 

[dsntslp]

Star Boomer.

 

[dodie20]

I think a lot of times, it's because of their own involvement. Even if it was minimal, they're leery of having their names dragged into it...also, because they have their own crimes to hide... & it's not cool to snitch... Maybe some people are scared if they hand over information, they will be accused of being involved? because how could they know certain things, without involvement? & it would be hard to prove otherwise, so they figure it's best, to just stay out of it...sometimes people don't talk out of love or loyalty, but years later, their feelings toward the perp change...sometimes, it takes the perp being locked up & safely away, to remove fear of retaliation...I remember a case back in the 80s, where a teen boy killed a classmate, & all of his friends kept quiet. I never really figured out why, except snitching wouldn't bring back the dead girl, so they all just rallied round their friend. weird. I kind of think that's what happened with the Ramseys. Their family & friends, could've shed some light on that family, but for the most part, they all just rallied round John & Patsy. Who knows...maybe their son will speak up one day.

 

[dodie20]

Since this case seems to revolve around the Croslin family, I don't know if any outsiders know enough, to ever speak up. & what the Croslins do know, may be them just putting 2 & 2 together. but who knows...if Timmy gets arrested & then divorces, Lindsey & Chelsea may get together, compare notes, & then take what they know, to LE.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It happens and it happens more than we think.

In the James Sullivan murder trial the star witness did not come forth with what she knew for 10 years. At the time when JS hired the hit man to kill his wife, Lita, this woman was there when the money exchanged hands. She was the hit man's girlfriend at the time. She said her reason was she was terrified that he would kill her too if she talked. Only when they separated did she come forward.

And if anyone watches Cold Cases countless people knew who the murderer was in many of the cases yet it took them years and years to come forward. I saw one case where it took a woman 26 years to finally tell what she knew.

Why they do this I really am not certain but maybe they are fearful or don't want to get involved or have had their own run ins with the law and may have something to hide themselves.

IMO

 

[azwriter]

JMO but people are rarely anxious to help out if they are hiding something that would attract the attention of the cops. They may have their own crimes (no matter how large or small) to cover and stay far away from LE as possible. No sense in getting involved or helping solve a crime if it's possible your past will be discovered and you'll be the one in trouble. This is how a person justifies their own silence.

 

[Kat]

I don't know how it happens or why.

I lived in a neighborhood while growing up where it was worse to tell on someone than whatever crime that person had commited.

It was worse to be a tattleteller (snitch) than a criminal.

With this case I think AZwriter hit the nail on the head. More than likely, the people with first or second hand knowledge in this case have their own crimes to worry about. They don't want to contact LE because of that. Those crimes might seem insignificant in comparison to a homicide and missing child but perhaps not in their own minds.

I have to say that as a teen I kept my mouth shut about a lot of crime I saw in my old neighborhood. Not homicide or a missing child though. Just your run of the mill crime that occurs in very low income areas. Drugs, burgarly, theft, property crimes, etc. I knew better than to open my mouth. I had to live there. I had to see those people every time I walked out my front door. I never thought in a million years I would get out of that neighborhood, given that my Mom and my Grandparents lived there. But I did.

I think the reason people stay quiet is complex, and might vary to each specific person KWIM?

Interesting thread Kimster. All JMHO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'll never be able to understand how someone could keep quiet.

If it were me that knew something, I would be forever known as "The Squealer" ...I would sing like a bird to the cops and to whoever else would listen. I would never accept a reward either.

 

[azwriter]

I don't know how it happens or why.

I lived in a neighborhood while growing up where it was worse to tell on someone than whatever crime that person had commited.

It was worse to be a tattleteller (snitch) than a criminal.

With this case I think AZwriter hit the nail on the head. More than likely, the people with first or second hand knowledge in this case have their own crimes to worry about. They don't want to contact LE because of that. Those crimes might seem insignificant in comparison to a homicide and missing child but perhaps not in their own minds.

I have to say that as a teen I kept my mouth shut about a lot of crime I saw in my old neighborhood. Not homicide or a missing child though. Just your run of the mill crime that occurs in very low income areas. Drugs, burgarly, theft, property crimes, etc. I knew better than to open my mouth. I had to live there. I had to see those people every time I walked out my front door. I never thought in a million years I would get out of that neighborhood, given that my Mom and my Grandparents lived there. But I did.

I think the reason people stay quiet is complex, and might vary to each specific person KWIM?

Interesting thread Kimster. All JMHO.

Kat, hey were we neighbors? I too grew up in the same type of neighborhood. And keeping your mouth shut was always a good and safe idea.
Many people do not step up and talk with LE. They do just the opposite, keep as far away as possible. The bolded part of your post is a usual motto for people who chose not to become involved.

You got out. So did I. That in itself is an great accomplishment.

 

[krkrjx]

I think a lot of people just do not trust LE, and with good reason in many jurisdictions.

Some people have no conscience. Some feel it is not their responsibility to report anything to LE. Some feel that unless the crime directly affects them it's none of their business.

I have watched "Cold Case Files" for some time and there have been some interesting cases covered. It's amazing how often a 15 or 20-year-old case is solved with information that was known early on (and might have been available to LE for the asking). And often this information comes from citizens and not anyone directly involved in the crime.

 

[dodie20]

I think a lot of people just do not trust LE, and with good reason in many jurisdictions.

Some people have no conscience. Some feel it is not their responsibility to report anything to LE. Some feel that unless the crime directly affects them it's none of their business.

I have watched "Cold Case Files" for some time and there have been some interesting cases covered. It's amazing how often a 15 or 20-year-old case is solved with information that was known early on (and might have been available to LE for the asking). And often this information comes from citizens and not anyone directly involved in the crime.

you're right about having good reason, to not trust the cops. Here? they don't want to hear it. I've seen where people write in to the newspaper complaining about drugs in their neighborhoods, begging for help, & nothing's done until a couple of months later, when someone gets murdered. & then the cops want witnesses to snitch & solve the case for them...& blame them, when they don't. It's a never ending cycle. I've noticed a lot of cops, (& no I'm not picking on them), prefer to pass out tickets & harrass pretty girls. My daughter spent a year at a college, that was about an hour &1/2 drive from here. She would sometimes come home for the weekends, so I could help her with her English papers. She had a Sunday softball curfew of 10 pm, so she' drive back, after dark. Well, it never failed...she'd get to the same little town, & the same cop would pull her over. never gave her a ticket, but just wanted to chit chat. What was her name, where was she from, where was she going??? Well, one night she called me after getting back, & told me that this guy had given her a lecture about the dangers of a pretty girl, alone on the roads, late at night. Nobody was bothering her, except him! & since when is 9 pm late? & as much as I missed my daughter, I put a stop to those visits, because that guy gave me the creeps. I felt like he was setting her up for 'you asked for it' situation. sorry to rant, but we've had some bad experiences with cops.

 

[dodie20]

& that's probably another reason...when somebody has had a bad experience with a rude or power hungry cop, she might feel 'why should I help this guy who's been so mean?'

 

[cyberborg]

I think a lot of people just do not trust LE, and with good reason in many jurisdictions.

Some people have no conscience. Some feel it is not their responsibility to report anything to LE. Some feel that unless the crime directly affects them it's none of their business.

I have watched "Cold Case Files" for some time and there have been some interesting cases covered. It's amazing how often a 15 or 20-year-old case is solved with information that was known early on (and might have been available to LE for the asking). And often this information comes from citizens and not anyone directly involved in the crime.

BBM. I agree.

Many folks have had experiences or bad experiences with LE and a LOT of folks dislike/distrust authority, government, the State, etc.

It is often a them versus us mentality and you don't want to help 'them'.

It is why conspiracy theories do so well and are believed well before the obvious truth ... there are many that choose to believe that the U.S. Government was involved in 9/11 and the attack on the World Trade Center and there are shades of grey between the extremes.

Fear and distrust? Fear of the unknown? Fear of authority? Fear of retaliation? Fear of the perp? Fear has a profound and immobilizing effect.

I will never understand it but, the same way the Perp has better rights than the Victim - especially when it comes to murder - too many prefer to let the Perp go free than help LE and the victim.

 

[Dee10]

I know of an accidental murder that many people knew about for years, one of the guys involved, turned JW and was going in for a minor operation; right before the operation he confessed LOL. Somehow I don't see that happening here. By the way, the guy is out of jail and leading a healthy, productive life. Not sure that happens very often though?

 

[blazeofglory]

they have alot of secrets they dont what to talk for hopes of getting by without being charged of a crime..they dont trust le because they are a criminal themselves or they no how there town le operates.i no its not a crime to tell le what you no you dont have to for fear of being accused or caught up in the crime itself..but it is a crime for doctors and dfc to not tell all they no..because they can be charged for not coming forward.

 

[krkrjx]

The fear of coming forward when you know something or suspect something is not always unfounded. In cases where a witness or citizen chooses not to keep quiet but goes to LE with info, they may open themselves up to ridicule or suspicion.

Look what happened to Roy Kronk. He could have just gone about his business and not said a word but instead chose to do the right thing...and in no time at all we saw the defense attack his credibility and even imply that he was a killer. And even when LE is not suspicious of a person coming forward, other people with an axe to grind often grab the opportunity to throw stones at someone the minute their name is in the limelight...Kronk's ex-wife did exactly that.

I just saw a TV show about a psychic who had a vision of where a body was; she went there and found it and went straight to LE to report it. The woman was immediately arrested and charged with murder. She was just a citizen who wanted to help, yet she had to endure a strip search and cavity search and spent several days in jail before being exonerated, and that was only because evidence was found that implicated someone else. Too often, such evidence is not found, or is not found for a very long time.

People see scenarios like those and if they feel they are at risk of being put in such a predicament they remain mute forever, or until such time as they have reason to feel less vulnerable.

 

[LillieBelle]

In regards to Haleigh, I believe it was Ron's uncle who said something like, "I don't snitch on family"...

 

[kant]

In regards to Haleigh, I believe it was Ron's uncle who said something like, "I don't snitch on family"...

And there it is...

I think all the reasons given here are part of it... from family allegiance (misplaced or not) or paralyzing fear of the perp, to thoughts of self-incrimination for real things people may have done that they want to keep under their hats, to being afraid of false accusation and finding themselves becoming a suspect etc, to, "Oh no way; They might find out that my cousin's neighbor's brother-in-law hooked me up free Showtime," "They could discover my mom's stash of discount Canadian Lipitor," "I cant risk my Cuban cigars getting pinched," "Well, I got these really cool fireworks... um... of questionable origin..." or "Oh heck no; My Candida Royalle collection aint no-buh-dy's beh-ness." (Ooops; am I talking too much again? heh)

There was a show on yesterday about a professor and his students who dug into a death penalty case just before the guy was to be executed. It turned out that he was innocent and was freed, but when the main witness was asked why she accused/testified against an innocent man, she said that the person who did it -- the person who she saw do it was, at the time, her husband (now ex-husband) and that she was terrified of him then.

I typically find myself agreeing with the idea of the death penalty, but yikes - scary stuff.

moo

 

[krkrjx]

And there it is...

(snipped)

There was a show on yesterday about a professor and his students who dug into a death penalty case just before the guy was to be executed. It turned out that he was innocent and was freed, but when one witness asked why she accused/testified against an innocent man she said that the person who did it -- the person who she saw do it was, at the time, her husband (now ex-husband) and that she was terrified of him then.

I typically find myself agreeing with the idea of the death penalty, but yikes - scary stuff.

moo

IMO, lying about what you know and implicating an innocent person is even worse than staying mute to protect the guilty.

 

[kant]

IMO, lying about what you know and implicating an innocent person is even worse than staying mute to protect the guilty.

I agree. And in that example that I cited about the falsely acccused guy on death row, sadly, the witness did not have an epiphany and finally realize her morally bereft decision, thereby truthfully recanting on her own. Those students, (who just happened to choose this case, btw,) had to dig and sleuth and find her and all but corner her with "we have proof."

And as you said, there is a huge difference bw, in her case, for example, her being too scared to implicate her then-husband, compared to the horror of her actively, falsely putting an innocent guy on death row... stunning.