CO CO - Garfield Co, WhtMale 35-65, 789UMCO, skeletal in tent, Sep'04

[justthinkin]

I need to make a couple of corrections from earlier statements by me. First, I said no coinage was found, but that is incorrect. Second, I said the heart drawing contained a bell, a cat, and a crucifix. Scratch the crucifix. I thought I'd read that in the Doenetwork file for this UID, but it was another Websleuther who'd said it was a cross. Looks more like a totem or a poorly executed drawing of an animal of some sort to me. A good close up of the drawing can be found on the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UOgHe1IHu4

Looked up No Name Creek Trail, and found it. No Name Creek Trail is described as the Glenwood Springs locals' secret hiking trail. It runs along No Name Creek as would be expected. To get to the trailhead you'd take the first exit north and east of town.

Glenwood Springs is served by rail, Amtrak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness
I'm wondering if this guy wasn't suffering from that, and it killed him? His smoking and his age could have made him a good candidate for a more serious form of altitude sickness.

Has anyone here been in contact with the Glenwood Springs PD? There are some unanswered questions that they could likely clear up, like for instance, extra clothing that might have been in the backpack, other methods of fire starting besides 8 lighters and a magnifying glass. A magnifying glass would be useless without sunshine. I just can't imagine the guy wouldn't have had a magnesium stick or a knife of some kind.

Maybe the guy was used to day hiking, but had little experience in backpacking or else he was suffering mental impairment when he started out.

 

[Mensch]

I have talked with Le in the past about this case and the letter and what I think is the letter "R" - not "A". One officer told me he spoke with a linguist who stated the letter is, in his opinion the letter "R".

Instead of reading: " I should WAIT,,,,"
It reads: " I should WRIT....." and the letters become illegible.
Look at all the letters and how the letter R is made throughout the letter. I haven't time to look at it on the video now but will check it out again Sunday.

 

[justthinkin]

I agree. Doenetwork.org had it wrong. It's clear the letter is an R in the referenced video.

 

[dsntslp]

A lot of his belongings sound like they may have come from a "kit" that might have been sold online. I wonder if they sell these same kits in the area up there? Not the sleeping bag but the small stuff. The ear plugs, magnifying glass and map compass etc are all things that one finds in camping kits online. The ear plugs though...do they come in camping kits or could he have had a gun that just was not there when he was found? Maybe someone else did go up there with him...two cups? Ear plugs might be in a military survival kit? Just thoughts...

 

[angela0040]

Another thought for everyone. Cigarette packs usually have a stamp on the bottom with the state where the cigarettes were purchased imprinted on it. The pack in the video wasn't in good shape after being in the elements for so long, but if they still have the packs and they're legible then it could be a clue if they were purchased out of state.

And out of curiosity I looked up "Lib" on wikipedia and the last entry was this-
"Members or supporters of the Liberal Party of Australia, sometimes in a derogatory fashion." I doubt there's any connection but I thought it was interesting since his sleeping bag case has Australia on it.

 

[reasypeasy]

Another thought for everyone. Cigarette packs usually have a stamp on the bottom with the state where the cigarettes were purchased imprinted on it. The pack in the video wasn't in good shape after being in the elements for so long, but if they still have the packs and they're legible then it could be a clue if they were purchased out of state.

And out of curiosity I looked up "Lib" on wikipedia and the last entry was this-
"Members or supporters of the Liberal Party of Australia, sometimes in a derogatory fashion." I doubt there's any connection but I thought it was interesting since his sleeping bag case has Australia on it.

I don't really see it so likely that someone would pick up Lib as a nickname based upon party affiliation in Australia.

If the name "Lib" isn't based upon the person's actual name, I'd say the next most probably explanation would be the character Libby in the Life Be in It campaign. Norm was a couch potato, and Libby was Norm's nagging sister.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNjEge3Awl8

 

[RubyRed]

Possessions:
Located was fragments of sleeping cushion,
fragments of blue backpack,
a yellow-green plastic poncho,
parts of a brown sleeping bag,
blue hairbrush,
two plastic zipper bags,
Six $100 bills, one $10 bill,
one $5 bill,
five $1 bills
, green Eureka dome tent,
blue-and-black Jansport backpack,
green camping pillow,
black belt with clinging long underwear fragments,
Slumberjack sleeping bag,
empty Tylenol bottle,
eight multicolored butane lighters,
one magnifying glass, one compass,
fingernail clippers,
bell,
spoon,
pepper spray,
20 packages of Camel unfiltered cigarettes,
Butane stove with two fuel cans,
sweetwater water-filtration kit,
pocket-sized Battleship game,
round red-and-blue canteen,
two green plastic military-style canteens,
pair of sunglasses,
pair of reading glasses,
silver Sharper Image binoculars,
"4 in 1" Radio Shack game,
two drinking cups,
aluminum cooking pot,
pair of tweezers,
package of foam earplugs,
package of razor blades,
tent repair kit,
pair of blue wool socks with duct tape around the toes,
roll of duct tape,
two National Geographic trail maps of the Flat Tops.
Other: A pocket-sized, spiral notebook

http://doenetwork.org/cases/789umco.html

All these items but no wallet or identification. There is a reason he didn't have those.

 

[justthinkin]

He had money on him, but had packed no spare clothing. That makes zero sense as does him not having a knife. No one does that kind of camping without having at least one knife. Multi-purpose tools were available back in 2000.

I really have to wonder if the list of possessions that we're aware of is a complete list. If it is, then he also had no tool to secure tent stakes into the ground.

 

[kemo]

Clothing, particularly cotten and wool is often chewed up by small animals and used in their burrows. Any remaining food would have been eaten by animals. I'm surprized that no wallet with identification was found. Perhaps animals had something to do with that but is is a bit of a mystery.

Suicides sometime destroy all id, but that wouldn't be consistant with his letter to "Lib".

 

[carbuff]

He had money on him, but had packed no spare clothing. That makes zero sense as does him not having a knife. No one does that kind of camping without having at least one knife. Multi-purpose tools were available back in 2000.

I really have to wonder if the list of possessions that we're aware of is a complete list. If it is, then he also had no tool to secure tent stakes into the ground.

He wouldn't necessarily need one with a dome tent.

 

[angela0040]

He also doesn't seem to have a watch or anything to keep time with which seems odd. And I would think that if he had the stove he would have had some canned food of some sort and there would be some evidence of the cans left at least. Although it's possible the cans were taken by animals as kemo said or possibly washed away in the following years of snowfall and runoff if they weren't inside the tent.

 

[kemo]

Actually, serious backpackers generally do not carry canned food. It is too heavy. They usually have dehydrated food that comes in foil or plactic wrapping.

 

[carbuff]

Actually, serious backpackers generally do not carry canned food. It is too heavy. They usually have dehydrated food that comes in foil or plactic wrapping.

You would think the wrappers would have left some traces even rodents got into it.

 

[angela0040]

Couple more thoughts.

1-He's missing some very essential items. With all of the other equipment that he packed it doesn't make sense for him to have not brought these things along. I think he did bring them but lost some of his equipment while he was out there and it was never found.

2. His journal reads "My ...s are going." I know it was suggested earlier that it could be his eyes but what if he meant his legs? This would explain why he was unable to walk out on his own.

 

[tatertot]

I think the "pocket-size" Battleship game is actually the electronic version, which lets a single player play against the computer and could be something a lone camper might take with him. There also exists a "travel-size" Battleship with the traditional plastic pegs and ships and does require two players, but it's not small enough to fit in your pocket.

That appears to be the electronic version of the game in the far right of the photo on Doe Network: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/789umco.html

Did the batteries in the Battleship and 4-in-1 game have dates on them? If he put name-brand batteries in the games, they might still have readable expiration dates on them that might give a better idea of when he went missing (i.e. if the batteries expired in 2002 he probably died some time prior since he wouldn't have taken along old batteries that wouldn't work.)

 

[Donjeta]

The old links are dead but he's still in Doe Network:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/789umco.html

* The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
* Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery
* Skeletal remains

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: Late 40s to late 50s, but could have been anywhere from 35 to 65.
* Approximate Height : 6'0"
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Forensic examiners say he suffered from severe degeneration in his back and neck and was most likely suffering severe back pain.
* Dentals: Available. The man had extensive dental work, including gold work, crowns, bridges and fillings in almost all his teeth, suggesting the man had money

.

He was found in a tent in a remote wooded campsite. He had a lot of camping equipment and apparently was a Camel smoker. I didn't find him in Namus.

 

[carbuff]

There's another, much longer thread for this UID: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719&highlight=789umco

 

[MargotKidder]

I am curious about a few things. Why would he be carrying butane lighters, as opposed to regular lighters? Maybe a butane lighter would work better, if it were to get wet?

I would assume that if he were experienced, he would have hung a bear bag near his campsite. You would not ever sleep with food in your tent as it would attract wildlife, especially bears, right? Did they look for the existance of a bear bag at all?

And again, if you look at his writing, he goes back and forth between upper and lower case letters, while appearing to try and write in All upper case letters.

LIB is all in upper case--do you think that it would be the initials L.I.B. as opposed to the word Lib. I have friends who have nicknames based upon what their nicknames spell, example Rad, Robert Alex Duchess, it's made up. Maybe it is not a woman at all, maybe a guy named Louis?

Maybe he had prescription pain meds in his tylenol bottle that would have helped manage the pain of a degenerative back disorder, or perhaps he used his butane lighters to smoke weed for pain management?

I am going to attach the first page of the letter here.

Thanks.

 

[vspin]

I've considered that this man could be a fugitive. Most people carry their cash in a wallet with their ID, unless maybe the don't want to be identified. This man could be Robert William Fisher.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/robert-william-fisher/view
Robert William Fisher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Known similarities between the two men:

-Age
-6' in height
-Outdoorsman, hunter
-Gold crown
-Back injury
-Tobacco


Some questionables:

-On the Doe Network it is written "The man had extensive dental work, including gold work, crowns, bridges and fillings in almost all his teeth," could that mean that he has only 1 noticeable (smile) crown and many gold fillings?
-The fugitive chews tobacco, while the unidentified smokes tobacco.
-The unidentified mentions a "Lib". Could "Lib" be someone helping him avoid capture?
-Where's the fugitives weapons? Could he have run out of ammunition (hunting) and ditched them?


This may be a stretch, but I wanted to say it first in case it does turn out to be him.

 

[tatertot]

That is a very intriguing potential match, vspin. I remember the AMW episode about the murders Fisher is wanted for; how sad for the children's grandfather who was interviewed in the segment. Fisher's house burnt to the ground so any camping gear he might have taken would have been assumed to be lost to the flames and nobody would have noticed it was missing from the house.

The back injury is especially compelling. I'm sure there are plenty of people passionate enough about hiking (or any other hobby) to persevere even if they develop back problems that make hiking and camping less enjoyable, but overall there are a lot of similarities between this UID and wanted man.