Ransom Note and Common Sense

[SheBoss]

After hearing Tricia and Levi on Levi's show. I never knew that the pen had it's top on and returned to the storage cup it came from............an intruder would not be so tidy!!!2010.09.28 Levi P. Show: JonBenet Case Heats up! Tricia from WS weighs in - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I thought that was odd at first glance (and still do), but then I read where Linda Hoffman Pugh described the house as immaculate in the "guest areas", but the "living areas" were always messed up. She also described PR as "slovenly". This got me to thinking more about the IDI. It's possible an intruder would be neat, but if PR is slovenly, she probably wouldn't have put the pen back in the container. :twocents:

Edited to add - this is found in Steve Thomas' book.

 

[Ames]

I have to say that, though I am RDI, I agree with this. I think anyone would have made that 911 call in a real kidnapping situation regardless of what the note said.

Sure...they would have called police...but not all of their friends and neighbors over. That's where the problem lies.

 

[SheBoss]

You obviously do not have children...because those words would have never flowed from your brain to your fingertips and wrote such a thing, if you did. And if you do...then God forbid anything ever happen to them where a psychopath's ramblings are left behind on paper inside of your home.

Actually, speaking from the child-free side of the fence, I'd read the whole note as well and follow it word for word. My imaginary daughter's life would depend on it! :innocent:

 

[Ames]

And of course, we all know in hindsight that she was already dead, but the parents thought she had been 'kidnapped'. The friends were most likely called to help in the search for her or for support and guidance.

Really? You find nothing odd about this? Even though the RN note specifially said..."If you talk to so much as a dog...she dies". Patsy may not have "read" the whole note...but, John did.

 

[Ames]

Actually, speaking from the child-free side of the fence, I'd read the whole note as well and follow it word for word. My imaginary daughter's life would depend on it! :innocent:

Exactly!!!!

 

[Mendara]

Really? You find nothing odd about this? Even though the RN note specifially said..."If you talk to so much as a dog...she dies". Patsy may not have "read" the whole note...but, John did.

Didn't the note say they would cut JB's head off? I would be so terrified the first hing i would have done was READ the entire note while screaming for my husband and running up to her room, but I would have run out side into the street to see if I could see who was watching me.

I would have called the police and begged them not to come in plain sight because the letter said they would kill my baby.

So even though I flip flop form RDI to IDI - I agree always the Ramseys behavior was not normal.

 

[Ames]

Didn't the note say they would cut JB's head off? I would be so terrified the first hing i would have done was READ the entire note while screaming for my husband and running up to her room, but I would have run out side into the street to see if I could see who was watching me.

I would have called the police and begged them not to come in plain sight because the letter said they would kill my baby.

So even though I flip flop form RDI to IDI - I agree always the Ramseys behavior was not normal.

Yes, it said that she would be beheaded. I mean...WHO (besides Patsy) wakes up and finds a ransom note on their staircase, reads the first couple of lines...finds their daughter has been kidnapped....and doesn't read the REST of the dang note???? PUULEEZE give me a break. OHHHH...and oh, lets not forget the FATHER of the "kidnapped" victim...what does HE do? He goes outside for 30 seconds (his own words...30 seconds), and takes a quick look around for clues. WOW...30 whopping seconds....I hope that he didn't strain a muscle, or hurt himself. And...not to mention Burke....his sister has just been kidnapped, do the Ramsey's wake him up, to see if he heard or saw anything, anything at ALL?? Well....no....they do not. Why? Because they thought it was best just to let the little fellow sleep, I mean...you know...he was so tired from the previous night's festivities and all, and they didn't want him being involved. Nevermind that his little sister had just been "kidnapped" right out from under all of their noses. Heck, for all the Ramsey's knew....the intruder could have been hiding in Burke's bedroom, waiting to take him hostage. Kind of looks like to me, they would woke his butt up, and be frantically saying.."BURKE!!! JONBENET HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED!!! WE NEED TO KNOW IF YOU HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL SON!!! THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!!! All the while, I would be herding him out of his room, and not letting him out of my sight. Just these three things alone...not to mention the other hundred abnormal things that the Ramsey's did after their daughter's murder, make me RDI. I want even go into the whole RN note, pineapple thing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, it said that she would be beheaded. I mean...WHO (besides Patsy) wakes up and finds a ransom note on their staircase, reads the first couple of lines...finds their daughter has been kidnapped....and doesn't read the REST of the dang note???? PUULEEZE give me a break. OHHHH...and oh, lets not forget the FATHER of the "kidnapped" victim...what does HE do? He goes outside for 30 seconds (his own words...30 seconds), and takes a quick look around for clues. WOW...30 whopping seconds....I hope that he didn't strain a muscle, or hurt himself. And...not to mention Burke....his sister has just been kidnapped, do the Ramsey's wake him up, to see if he heard or saw anything, anything at ALL?? Well....no....they do not. Why? Because they thought it was best just to let the little fellow sleep, I mean...you know...he was so tired from the previous night's festivities and all, and they didn't want him being involved. Nevermind that his little sister had just been "kidnapped" right out from under all of their noses. Heck, for all the Ramsey's knew....the intruder could have been hiding in Burke's bedroom, waiting to take him hostage. Kind of looks like to me, they would woke his butt up, and be frantically saying.."BURKE!!! JONBENET HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED!!! WE NEED TO KNOW IF YOU HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL SON!!! THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!!! All the while, I would be herding him out of his room, and not letting him out of my sight. Just these three things alone...not to mention the other hundred abnormal things that the Ramsey's did after their daughter's murder, make me RDI. I want even go into the whole RN note, pineapple thing.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

EXACTLY! Speaking as a mother, my very first instinct would be to GO CHECK ON HIM, and make SURE he's okay! For all they know, the kidnapper could have slit their son's throat.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, it said that she would be beheaded. I mean...WHO (besides Patsy) wakes up and finds a ransom note on their staircase, reads the first couple of lines...finds their daughter has been kidnapped....and doesn't read the REST of the dang note???? PUULEEZE give me a break. OHHHH...and oh, lets not forget the FATHER of the "kidnapped" victim...what does HE do? He goes outside for 30 seconds (his own words...30 seconds), and takes a quick look around for clues. WOW...30 whopping seconds....I hope that he didn't strain a muscle, or hurt himself. And...not to mention Burke....his sister has just been kidnapped, do the Ramsey's wake him up, to see if he heard or saw anything, anything at ALL?? Well....no....they do not. Why? Because they thought it was best just to let the little fellow sleep, I mean...you know...he was so tired from the previous night's festivities and all, and they didn't want him being involved. Nevermind that his little sister had just been "kidnapped" right out from under all of their noses. Heck, for all the Ramsey's knew....the intruder could have been hiding in Burke's bedroom, waiting to take him hostage. Kind of looks like to me, they would woke his butt up, and be frantically saying.."BURKE!!! JONBENET HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED!!! WE NEED TO KNOW IF YOU HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL SON!!! THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!!!

And apparently the BPD wants to know the same thing.

 

[Ames]

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

EXACTLY! Speaking as a mother, my very first instinct would be to GO CHECK ON HIM, and make SURE he's okay! For all they know, the kidnapper could have slit their son's throat.

Yeah, supposedly John did go and peek in on him, and Burke was sleeping. How he knew that, I don't know. Unless Burke was snoring, there is no way, especially in the dark...for John to have known for sure if Burke was alive or dead, without flipping on the light and going over to check just to make sure. He said that Burke was sleeping (which later Burke said that he was awake, and that he heard his mom and dad talking outside his bedroom), and that he didn't want to wake him up. Poor little feller was just pooped from the previous night's festivities, don't cha know. And besides, John didn't want to worry him. You know...worry him with that pesky little problem of the fact that his baby sister had been kidnapped. No, NO...lets just let him sleep. He needs his rest. (The "intruder" also could have been hiding under Burkes bed, or in his closet...but...I guess THAT thought never crossed John or Patsy's mind...duhhhh)

 

[Ames]

And apparently the BPD wants to know the same thing.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during THAT interview. Now would be a good time for some invisible potion, kind of like the kind the intruder drank on Christmas night.

 

[madeleine]

Didn't know where to put this so here it goes....
I didn't know that they called in J.Douglas only 2 weeks after the murder.....

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Yeah, supposedly John did go and peek in on him, and Burke was sleeping. How he knew that, I don't know. Unless Burke was snoring, there is no way, especially in the dark...for John to have known for sure if Burke was alive or dead, without flipping on the light and going over to check just to make sure. He said that Burke was sleeping (which later Burke said that he was awake, and that he heard his mom and dad talking outside his bedroom), and that he didn't want to wake him up. Poor little feller was just pooped from the previous night's festivities, don't cha know. And besides, John didn't want to worry him. You know...worry him with that pesky little problem of the fact that his baby sister had been kidnapped. No, NO...lets just let him sleep. He needs his rest. (The "intruder" also could have been hiding under Burkes bed, or in his closet...but...I guess THAT thought never crossed John or Patsy's mind...duhhhh)

In response to my bold:

He just used those same vision superpowers he used to see JBR in the dark cellar when mere mortal FW couldn't.

 

[madeleine]

Hello All!

I'm a long time lurker, but new to posting. I have a question for all the great minds RDI and IDI alike. I've searched this and cannot find an answer, so if I'm starting a duplicate thread, I apologize and ask the mods to merge it. So here's my question:

On the morning of Dec 26, after PR and JR read the ransom note, why the phone calls? I understand calling the police. That makes sense. After all, cops are trained to deal with kidnappings and all say not to call the police (at least that's what I would think). However, Patsy didn't say anything to the dispatcher about the ransom note saying they were watching the house, if anyone was contacted, JonBenet would die, etc. Why not? And then, they preceeded to call even more folks until ending up with a houseful of people. If they thought this was a legitimate note at the time and believed this note to be true, why completely disobey the kidnappers, in effect, killing their own child?

All I've found in defense of this is Patsy saying that she just glanced at the note. Again, that makes no sense. If my daughter were in the hands of a "small foreign faction", I would read the letter line by line to make sure I did exactly what they wanted me to do so I would see my little girl again. Why didn't the Ramseys? Can anyone point me to anywhere or tell me anything that makes any sense as to why they did this? This one action alone makes them look very, very guilty...and I don't want to think that yet. I'd rather keep an open mind until I read all the evidence.

Thanks in Advance!

here are some of their explanations I found:

BARBARA (V/O) The note said, 'We have your daughter in our possession.' It demanded 118-thousand dollars in ransom, threatened that JonBenet would be beheaded, and warned the Ramseys that they were being watched.

BARBARA WALTERS The note said if you do anything-if police come, if FBI come-your daughter will die. You called 9-1-1.

JOHN RAMSEY Yes I did.(PAUSE) It would have been impossible to sit there and wait by ourselves.

BARBARA WALTERS You also called friends to come over. Was that wise?

JOHN RAMSEY Your daughter is gone…

PATSY RAMSEY [OVERLAP] We were desperate&desperate.

JOHN RAMSEY She's in the hands of a madman, and, and you reach out for any help you can get. Um. (PAUSE) If I have a regret it's I didn't get more help...that morning.



http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm



COURIC: The ransom note left by the supposed kidnapper ran three pages long and demanded a very specific sum of money. Not a million dollars, or $ 10 million, but just $ 118,000. It was signed mysteriously with the initials "S.B.T.C." What struck you about this ransom note as you read the words?

Mr. RAMSEY: Very brutal talk about, 'You will not see your daughter alive if you don't follow our instructions. She will be beheaded.'

Ms. RAMSEY: Well, then you realize right away that you're totally helpless, and you need, you need help. You need to call 911. And that's what we did.



COURIC: The note had some very specific warnings, as you well know. Quote, "If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies." It also says you were under constant scrutiny. Did that make you nervous to call the police, to call your friends?

Mr. RAMSEY: No, we had to do something. It never crossed my mind to not call for help.



http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03202000ramseytodaypt1.htm

 

[Ames]

In response to my bold:

He just used those same vision superpowers he used to see JBR in the dark cellar when mere mortal FW couldn't.

HAHA...yeah, right.

 

[Ames]

here are some of their explanations I found:

BARBARA (V/O) The note said, 'We have your daughter in our possession.' It demanded 118-thousand dollars in ransom, threatened that JonBenet would be beheaded, and warned the Ramseys that they were being watched.

BARBARA WALTERS The note said if you do anything-if police come, if FBI come-your daughter will die. You called 9-1-1.

JOHN RAMSEY Yes I did.(PAUSE) It would have been impossible to sit there and wait by ourselves.

BARBARA WALTERS You also called friends to come over. Was that wise?

JOHN RAMSEY Your daughter is gone…

PATSY RAMSEY [OVERLAP] We were desperate&desperate.

JOHN RAMSEY She's in the hands of a madman, and, and you reach out for any help you can get. Um. (PAUSE) If I have a regret it's I didn't get more help...that morning.



http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000ramseyonbarbarawalters.htm



COURIC: The ransom note left by the supposed kidnapper ran three pages long and demanded a very specific sum of money. Not a million dollars, or $ 10 million, but just $ 118,000. It was signed mysteriously with the initials "S.B.T.C." What struck you about this ransom note as you read the words?

Mr. RAMSEY: Very brutal talk about, 'You will not see your daughter alive if you don't follow our instructions. She will be beheaded.'

Ms. RAMSEY: Well, then you realize right away that you're totally helpless, and you need, you need help. You need to call 911. And that's what we did.



COURIC: The note had some very specific warnings, as you well know. Quote, "If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies." It also says you were under constant scrutiny. Did that make you nervous to call the police, to call your friends?

Mr. RAMSEY: No, we had to do something. It never crossed my mind to not call for help.



http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03202000ramseytodaypt1.htm

Calling 911 for help is one thing...calling over friends, and neighbors...well, that is a totally different thing....in light of the fact that the RN warned them against doing such a thing. Who reads a RN..after finding their daughter kidnapped, and does the total opposite of what the RN warned them NOT to do, or else their daughter would be killed? OF course he has regrets that he didn't call in more people for help...the only reason that they were called over there in the first place was to contaminate the crime scene....the more people the better. And not one time during Patsy's 911 call, did she ask the police to be discreet...or quiet...when they arrived. Did she ask them to not use their sirens? No, she didn't. If it had of been a real kidnapping,and real RN...imo....she would have said...they have threatened to kill JB if we talk to anybody...so much as a dog....so please, PLEASE...be as quiet as you can, and whatever you do...please don't turn on your sirens.

 

[CathyR]

The info in the note might have made the R's suspicious of friends. Someone mentioned an amount of money that says WE KNOW YOU WELL.
John might have stepped outside to see if a car that did not belong in the neighborhood was "watching" the house.
How many people did the R's call. Did they call all the people who showed up or was there a church type phone tree going on?
Do you think the R's suspected a friend and also wanted to see who would show up, couldn't make it --- sorry John and Patsy, I'm just so busy right now, I have your daughter to keep quiet, Christmas and New Years parties to plan, it is going to be a busy week. The amount of money mentioned meant something to the Ramsey's it was plain to them that someone they knew or knew ALOT about them had written the RN. This is supposing that an IDI.

I agree making the 911 call was an absolute necessity, I don't agree it had to made by 10am, regardless who did it. Otherwise you have another Casey Anthony type case where the parents claim we did everything the RN said. It would make them look like they didn't really care to find JBR alive even though they followed the note.

Not waking Burke- parents couldn't deal with telling him anything, in a RDI situation that may be something they didn't discuss, what EXACTLY to tell Burke. Story has to be in essence the same from both parents.
In a IDI situation with 1 child missing and the statement we have your daughter they may not have viewed Burke as being in danger. A daughter is missing and the RN says nothing about we already killed your son, we will get Burke next, don't follow our advice and JBR and Burke are dead. They had no reason to expect Burke would not be alright. The searching for JBR in the house might also be a case of looking for how the kidnapper got in and that JBR is just hiding as she got away from the perp but is too scared to come out.
There really isn't logic going on here when it is thought the R's had to call police by 10am. The only thing they had to do was cancel the flight, someone is sick and can't travel. Tell police after 10 am that they wanted to pay ransom and were too scared to call until no call came from kidnappers then they really got worried. There isn't a legitimate reason they HAD to call by 10 am a later call would have been believable too.
They might have looked bad but it would be much more believable that they were trying to cooperate with the RN.
I am uncertain as yet who did this to JBR but the comparisons of what we would do in the same situation is absurd.

Unless you have been there we can only imagine and imagination is safe, it puts no stress on the brain to deal with the trauma.
To be truthful ( imagining my grown children when they were young) the cops would have arrested both my hubby and me cause I imagine we would have been well armed and the friends we would have called would be "top gunners" as we would have been going door to door searching houses without the owners consent till we found our child. Call me a redneck but what I can imagine myself doing and what I would actually do cannot be said as I have never had a child murdered, kidnapped.
People do not act NORMALLY in situations like this.

I have done things out of character when both my parents died. Dad died of cancer when I was 14 and I was very, very ,very, nice to all the florists who delivered flowers. My mom said I didn't need to gush and complement all the flowers as the florists couldn't care less if we appreciated the thought, they were happy for the business and didn't send the flowers just sold and delivered them. I knew that but I needed her to point out my my behavior as I appeared more than a little weird.
My older sister and I got into a huge (word only) fight in my mothers hospital room while she was dying.
People deal with loss and stress differently and often do things others might consider weird or unusual.

 

[Mendara]

Did they tell the 911 dispatcher that the ransom note warned them not to call police? I think I would definetly call police, but I would tell them the note warned me not to. I would absolutely NOT call anyone other than the police to come to my house for fear that the kidnappers were watching and if I did call my closest friends I would warn them to stay away from the house until the DANGEROUS situation was contained. I would hold my son in my arms and wait for police to give me instructions.

Who began searching the house for JB? How did they end up going into the WC? I would assume my child was outside of the house because of the note, never thinking to look for her anywhere in the house - HOWEVER I would be looking for some kind of clue of how this intruder got in and if he left any clues behind, starting in her room and talkign to my 9 year old son.

Again that RN was really ridiculous but very scary in that it was written by someone who knew how to get into their house, had hate for them and was telling them they were still in the neighborhood.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

]Did they tell the 911 dispatcher that the ransom note warned them not to call police? I think I would definetly call police, but I would tell them the note warned me not to. [/B] I would absolutely NOT call anyone other than the police to come to my house for fear that the kidnappers were watching and if I did call my closest friends I would warn them to stay away from the house until the DANGEROUS situation was contained. I would hold my son in my arms and wait for police to give me instructions.

Who began searching the house for JB? How did they end up going into the WC? I would assume my child was outside of the house because of the note, never thinking to look for her anywhere in the house - HOWEVER I would be looking for some kind of clue of how this intruder got in and if he left any clues behind, starting in her room and talkign to my 9 year old son.

Again that RN was really ridiculous but very scary in that it was written by someone who knew how to get into their house, had hate for them and was telling them they were still in the neighborhood.

Not only did Patsy not tell the dispatcher that, she hung up while the dispatcher was trying to get more information from her. I'd be listening to every instruction given to me by the dispatcher, and I'd follow the instructions to the letter. And common sense would tell me not to call people over, even if I had not read the whole ransom note at that point.

 

[SheBoss]

here are some of their explanations I found: http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03202000ramseytodaypt1.htm

Thanks, Madeleine! I appreciate you looking. They (the Ramseys) still aren't making much sense, though.