What's in this cellar room photo?

[Ames]

We're having a discussion at FFJ about this cellar photo I happened upon yesterday. It appears that there might be a doll in the photo, but it's hard to say. It could just be a lump of Christmas decorations or something else.

The photo is from one of the documentaries done about this case. This group of photos came from a screen capture by ACR or Why Nut--can't remember which as they both did some.

So we have a blurred, distant photo among others, which makes it worse when enlarged. But I've played around with it to give a better idea of what I'm looking at.

By the way, the photo in the upper right corner is of JonBenet still in the home, before her body was taken away, so it's not a doll.

Here's the FFJ thread: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9958&page=5

Here are the images:

Okay, maybe I am blind, I do see the doll, but I do not see what you said was JB's body, before it was carried away. My question is this...how could there be a picture of JB's body, in the celler...with her dolls...if no pictures were taken at that time. JR "found" the body, and brought it upstairs. SOO...is this a picture taken in the cellar...or is it one that was taken afterward...after John brought her body upstairs. I believe he laid her in the foyer of the living room, and then she was moved again, under the Christmas tree. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Okay, I just figured out that the photo of JB still in the home, is X'd out...I can't access it, for some reason.

I will have to go and dig up my daughter's Christmas Barbie from 1996, and see what it looks like. The doll in the photo looks like a "Holiday Barbie" to me.

Here is the 1996 Holiday Barbie...Look at the bottom of the dress in the photo...looks gold and crinkled...just like this one!!! And the color of the dress looks the same.....also looks like it is lying face UP to me. If you look closely you can make out the face of the doll.

 

[claudicici]

here is one :

I wished we could find a picture how the one on the left would look from the back.

 

[claudicici]

What does sister socks look like?

at around the 1:38 mark in this video you can see what I believe to be sister socks

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9vDzx71RQw&feature=related[/ame]

 

[SeekingJana]

It's defintely the Happy Holidays Barbie. but not the ones shown in the example photos. The one in your photo, KK, has white ribbon down both sides of the front of the gown, and was, naturally, the 1997 limited edition doll.

You can find a ton of good photos of them on eBay under 1997 Happy Holidays Barbie. Note-- The doll was produced for retail stores in a BRUNETTE CAUCASIAN AND AN AFRICAN- AMERICAN DOLL VERSION. However, JBR's doll was special, of course. Someone bought her the BLONDE Special Edition doll which was PRODUCED ONLY FOR THE BFC MEMBERS ( BARBIE FAN CLUB). That may be why people have had a hard time matching up the hair with the gown. It is considered to be a " rarity".
Here is a link to one current eBay auction for what I believe is the exact doll in the photo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-HAPPY-HOLIDAY-BLONDE-BARBIE-A-BFC-EXCLUSIVE_W0QQitemZ370431731151QQcategoryZ160829QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4712.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D220680208005%252B170548566326%252B120630951925%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5116283340210012571

Thanks for posting the photos. I had heard that there were dolls in the basement room a long time ago, from a Pro-Ramsey source whom I believe is now off the Internet forums. I never knew WHAT she was telling the truth about-- very good to see this documented.

 

[MurriFlower]

It's defintely the Happy Holidays Barbie. but not the ones shown in the example photos. The one in your photo, KK, has white ribbon down both sides of the front of the gown, and was, naturally, the 1997 limited edition doll.

You can find a ton of good photos of them on eBay under 1997 Happy Holidays Barbie. Note-- The doll was produced for retail stores in a BRUNETTE CAUCASIAN AND AN AFRICAN- AMERICAN DOLL VERSION. However, JBR's doll was special, of course. Someone bought her the BLONDE Special Edition doll which was PRODUCED ONLY FOR THE BFC MEMBERS ( BARBIE FAN CLUB). That may be why people have had a hard time matching up the hair with the gown. It is considered to be a " rarity".
Here is a link to one current eBay auction for what I believe is the exact doll in the photo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-HAPPY-HOLIDAY-BLONDE-BARBIE-A-BFC-EXCLUSIVE_W0QQitemZ370431731151QQcategoryZ160829QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4712.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D220680208005%252B170548566326%252B120630951925%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5116283340210012571

Thanks for posting the photos. I had heard that there were dolls in the basement room a long time ago, from a Pro-Ramsey source whom I believe is now off the Internet forums. I never knew WHAT she was telling the truth about-- very good to see this documented.

Curious that the Happy Holiday 1997 Barbie would have been available for Christmas 1996?

And was this a 'giant Barbie', as it would have needed to have been in the photo (when compared to the surrounds)??

 

[SeekingJana]

The info I can find on the BFC.com site for registered members says it was available for purchase 10/96, with the ending purchase date not specified. I cannot link the sparse info as it is a paid member's only site with my info being visible. Sometimes, Mattel's Barbie Fan Club releases future editions for upcoming events. This doll commememorated the 10th anniversary of the 1st Happy Holidays Barbie doll.

It looks like it to me, but maybe not. I have followed this case from the beginning, so I know that JBR was killed sometime after midnight on Dec. 26, 1996, of course.

As for the size, people have been posting photos of Barbie dolls for days. Have you asked them if their dolls were giants? Barbie dolls are 11 and 3/4 inches tall. I don't know what you are getting at. It is said that the detail in the photo was enhanced. I don't know if the item was enlarged, but thought it must have been to show the details.

 

[MurriFlower]

The info I can find on the BFC.com site for registered members says it was available for purchase 10/96, with the ending purchase date not specified. I cannot link the sparse info as it is a paid member's only site with my info being visible. Sometimes, Mattel's Barbie Fan Club releases future editions for upcoming events. This doll commememorated the 10th anniversary of the 1st Happy Holidays Barbie doll.

It looks like it to me, but maybe not. I have followed this case from the beginning, so I know that JBR was killed sometime after midnight on Dec. 26, 1996, of course.

As for the size, people have been posting photos of Barbie dolls for days. Have you asked them if their dolls were giants? Barbie dolls are 11 and 3/4 inches tall. I don't know what you are getting at. It is said that the detail in the photo was enhanced. I don't know if the item was enlarged, but thought it must have been to show the details.

Well, I can only draw the size issue to your attention. I cannot force you to acknowledge this discrepancy in relation to the other objects in the photo, if you choose to believe it was a Barbie doll. IMO the object (if it were a doll and not just a rag) was quite a bit larger than the 11 3/4 inches of the Barbie. Just look at the window fly screen just behind, and try to imagine the smallest possible size this might have been (bathroom window perhaps) and relate this to the size of the object in front of it that you are definite was a Barbie doll. You have, of course, (as does everyone else on this forum), the Constutionally Protected right to your opinion (correct or not).

 

[joeskidbeck]

It looks to me like whoever made the photo was crouched close to whatever the tissue box was sitting on. This is what make the size look distorted. The doll is not a giant, just appears so. The size looks correct in the photo that Cherokee made for comparison (the one with the photo of the pineapple next to it).

 

[MurriFlower]

It looks to me like whoever made the photo was crouched close to whatever the tissue box was sitting on. This is what make the size look distorted. The doll is not a giant, just appears so. The size looks correct in the photo that Cherokee made for comparison (the one with the photo of the pineapple next to it).

Is this not the exact same photo?

 

[joeskidbeck]

Is this not the exact same photo?

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The actual comparison photo that Cherokee made instead of the ones that have been enlarged. I think I will make a similar photo later today (when my granddaughter wakes and I can borrow a Barbie or too). Probably the only way we can know for sure if it's actually a Barbie in the photo.

 

[DeeDee249]

The doll in the photo, still in the box (which is quite a bit larger than the doll) does seem to be a Holiday Barbie. The trim is closer in size to the 1997 special edition doll. Patsy admits to making a trip to FAO Schwartz in NY that November and a second trip a bit later as well, and a store like that would be very likely to carry that doll as soon as it was released. Sometimes FAO Schwartz would offer special edition toys that were not available anywhere else. Be helpful if that store were asked by LE if it had that doll in its inventory that holiday season.

 

[CathyR]

I see two dolls in photo. Clearest in the enhanced version 1st photo. One looks like a holiday doll or what I used to refer to as a fancy dress doll. Other is laying on top of something else and looks like an antique doll. Black hair, white face but legs don't match face color. Black dress no shoes on doll and arms can't be seen.

Someone asked about a doll room. Patsy had a curio in her room or maybe JBR's room with all kinds of dolls and other baby stuff of the kids, hers and her sister. Read her sisters statement about the dolls being taken by her but where the curio was was unclear.

 

[Tadpole12]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The actual comparison photo that Cherokee made instead of the ones that have been enlarged. I think I will make a similar photo later today (when my granddaughter wakes and I can borrow a Barbie or too). Probably the only way we can know for sure if it's actually a Barbie in the photo.

Hiya Jkb,

That would be fantastic.
Looking forward to see your results.
oh boy!

 

[Tadpole12]

at around the 1:38 mark in this video you can see what I believe to be sister socks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9vDzx71RQw&feature=related

Right on Claudic,

My friend and I were reviewing the montage for dolls,
still confused about which doll is which, but atleast four dolls appear in the montage.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9vDzx71RQw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]



0:26 to 0:36 Stuffed bear and other small stuffed animal wearing red hat with white trim?
is it the http://crimeshots.com/CrimeScene2.html The 'mysterious' Santa Bear?

1:36 sister socks grey and white stripped arms

1:41 giant barbie dressed in white bridal outfit

2:06 white round face, black hair? looks like little stitched nose and two eyes

near 2:26 unclear photo, JBR with a doll?
3 photos within 1 second. at 2:26 mark.

at 2:27 is that a doll? is she holding sister socks?


So Sister Socks has stripped arms?
stitched eyes and nose?
Ears?


I'll have to browse through some more of those montages.
They're so heartbreaking.

The christmas shots show packaging but it's indistinguishable.

 

[DeeDee249]

The Santa Bear was photographed by police; it was on the spare twin bed in JB's room. I doubt police put it there from the basement as crime photos are always of the crime scene as it was when LE arrived. It is more likely that the bear was kept on that bed and that's where it stayed. The Santa bear can't be in two photos at the same time. There is simply no way for it to be in the basement photos and in JB's bedroom unless someone snuck it there while LE was photographing. And there really wasn't any reason to do that.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hey Dee Dee,

TY, Ya, I realize the santa bear was on the second bed in JBR's room, as he appears in the crime scene photos.
The Ramseys denied knowing the bear,
but it looks like he appears in the family video montage?
which claudicici posted.

I just don't understand the lack of dolls in JBR's room.

 

[DeeDee249]

Hey Dee Dee,

TY, Ya, I realize the santa bear was on the second bed in JBR's room, as he appears in the crime scene photos.
The Ramseys denied knowing the bear,
but it looks like he appears in the family video montage?
which claudicici posted.

I just don't understand the lack of dolls in JBR's room.

Just because we haven't seen them in our VERY limited cache of crime scene photos doesn't meant they are not there. JB had a closet for trophies, and pageant paraphernalia, possibly there was a toy closet, too. Or maybe she didn't really play in her room, preferring the den or basement. Maybe there was a playroom that we have not seen- the handful of crime photos we have available certainly do not represent every part of the home as it stood that day. I am sure a little girl like JB had Barbies, doll houses, trunks of doll clothes, etc. All the trappings of a little girls' childhood. How sad.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Hiya Jkb,

That would be fantastic.
Looking forward to see your results.
oh boy!

It looks like I may have to put my little experiment off for a day or two. My sister had a heart attack last night and I will be at the hospital with her for a couple of days (she has no one else to stay). I can't wait to do this experiment, it should be very enlightening. Wonder if the hospital folks would be upset if I carried in a window screen or two? :waitasec: At least they have wireless internet at our local hospital so I can keep up with all these great posts of late!

 

[sharkeyes]

Well, for what it's worth, this is the doll I see, or one very similar to it.

 

[Bobbarita]

Well, for what it's worth, this is the doll I see, or one very similar to it.

My daughter (now 23) and I are both "Barbie" fanatics and the image you posted is the exact Barbie that came to mind!