GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #7

[Leila]

No way this was random...he planned this and if he hadn't given up the bodies -- they never would have been found. Now -- WHO ELSE HAS HE DONE THIS TO?? How many other bodies are out there....

I hope I linked this right. The quote is from the article link.

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/lo...n-knox-county-missing-found-tree.html?sid=102

The bodies were found inside a hollow tree that was nearly one mile into the woods. Investigators said the area is so densely wooded that they believe Hoffman dragged the bodies to the tree.
Detectives believe that Hoffman, an experienced tree trimmer, used harnesses to haul the bodies up to a hole at the top of the tree and dropped them down to the base, Ramos reported.

Sheriff Barber said in yesterday's presser something to the effect that they wouldn't have found the bodies without MH's help.

I think that area had already been searched. If the bodies were concealed inside a tree, I would think a searcher could walk right past that tree and not know. Not to get too graphic, but wouldn't there be an odor? If they had taken cadaver dogs on a search of that area, I think they could have found the bodies.

 

[Wil.J]

DEAR LORD!! I suspected as much, but how horrible to actually read it.... I don't know about everyone else, but while I am reading this stuff, I have constant chills. It is just beyond comprehension.

I don't get so much chills when I read about where and how they were found, but more a terrible deep-down feeling that hits me right to the very depths of my soul.

A couple of things. The place where they were found was a long way removed from anywhere else they'd been looking, and it would have taken some time to find them without 'help.' In addition, being inside the burned out tree meant it would have taken a very detailed look at that particular tree in order to find them. Not what we all wanted to hear, I know.

:twocents:
IMHO

 

[Tikki]

Sheriff Barber said in yesterday's presser something to the effect that they wouldn't have found the bodies without MH's help.

I think that area had already been searched. If the bodies were concealed inside a tree, I would think a searcher could walk right past that tree and not know. Not to get too graphic, but wouldn't there be an odor? If they had taken cadaver dogs on a search of that area, I think they could have found the bodies.

I was thinking that earlier, but if he sealed them really good in trash bags and duct tape, could have taken a long time maybe?

 

[Penelope]

I had a hard time sleeping last night -- my mind kept wandering to the located bodies and how they were found.

[WARNING: the next paragraph is not for the faint of heart.]

It is my theory that they were probably dismembered and put in quite a few garbage bags as it would be difficult for a single individual to drag one whole body a mile through the woods. I wonder if the blood found at his house indicated that he had dragged the bodies in garbage bags through the house after dismembering them in the bathroom. It is hard to find a garbage bag that did not leak a little bit if there were fluids in it along with dry trash.

I believe there is a lot LE has not told us, probably due to the gruesome nature of these murders.

May their souls rest in peace.

 

[Soul125]

Sheriff Barber said in yesterday's presser something to the effect that they wouldn't have found the bodies without MH's help.

I think that area had already been searched. If the bodies were concealed inside a tree, I would think a searcher could walk right past that tree and not know. Not to get too graphic, but wouldn't there be an odor? If they had taken cadaver dogs on a search of that area, I think they could have found the bodies.

I don't think a searcher would pay any attention to a tree with a hole in it either. I have never heard of anything like this and I have read about many crimes and murders. It is a very scary way to dispose of a body. But I have read about cases where bodies were buried for years before the killer gave up the location from prison, Alice Donovan, which is just sad to me. Families should be able to give their loved ones a proper burial with dignity.

 

[JoeFromLB]

I think he wanted them found too Tikki. I just dont get why he went to all that trouble and then told them. I guess it fits the narcissistic profile, in that he thinks that's something to boast about, like see how smart I am, good thing you had me to tell you. Who knows.

BBM.

...like Zahra Baker's stepmom, "cooperating" with police by telling them the areas where the remains were eventually found. There's speculation she may be hoping for a deal.

 

[MCDRAW]

I wondered early on if either of the women had met him before, because that's a logical assumption and LE said there was no break-in. When LE said there was no indication that they had known him, I still wondered. Families don't always know of everyone in their loved ones lives, let alone casual acquaintances or "one time meets".

Now knowing that MH always signed in just before closing, that Stephanie did cleaning there, that cleaning was done after hours, AND already having read that Stephanie's family said she had told them she felt like she was being stalked...

I am convinced that MH was stalking her, and MAY even have tried to get to know her and was rebuffed. IMO, Stephanie probably "got the creeps" about him if she ever saw/talked to him, or maybe it was just that "sixth sense" of feeling stalked but not having anything to go on.

He may have started off stalking Stephanie but somewhere along the way he saw Sarah. In my opinion, Sarah was his target, otherwise why keep her alive. He proved that he didn't mind killing children because he killed Kody.JMO

 

[snapdragon]

I don't get so much chills when I read about where and how they were found, but more a terrible deep-down feeling that hits me right to the very depths of my soul.

A couple of things. The place where they were found was a long way removed from anywhere else they'd been looking, and it would have taken some time to find them without 'help.' In addition, being inside the burned out tree meant it would have taken a very detailed look at that particular tree in order to find them. Not what we all wanted to hear, I know.

:twocents:
IMHO

Wil J. - am I correct in my assumptions (from limited pictures I have seen) that the Herrmann residence is a "more remote" location than Stephanie Sprang's neighborhood?

 

[Tikki]

Hmm... don't know. I keep going back to the GMA interview with SS's father who said that she mentioned that she had a feeling she was being stalked. And she cleaned at the gym? I had suspicions he was after one of the two women, not Sarah, especially how this all went down AND that sarah was found in pretty good condition (I don't think a pedophile would have gone to all this trouble, and if he did, I think Sarah would have been in far worse shape). I think it was Stephanie... I think he was stalking her. I think she knowingly or unknowingly rebuffed him and he went beserk..

If he was after SS, I can only think of a few reasons he would have involved the Herrmann family- one is that he was acquainted with SS, and went with her over to TH's house, and the other is that he chose to attack there because TH's house was in a more remote area. :twocents:

I think "pretty good condition" is very subjective, we really don't know what happened to her as far as abuse, imo. She was obviously well enough to go home, but hospitals don't keep you for anything except surgery or life threatening conditions afaik?

I think the fact that she was separated from the rest (and could hear some of what happened it sounds like) indicates she was the target.

And another thing about their house, this picture shows a different view...with a bottom floor garage, reminds me that she was found (kept?) in his basement, looks like it would be pretty easy to get someone in a vehicle from there, without beeing seen?

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...nnhomeknox-county-missing-people-5-111210.jpg

 

[snapdragon]

I had a hard time sleeping last night -- my mind kept wandering to the located bodies and how they were found.

[WARNING: the next paragraph is not for the faint of heart.]

It is my theory that they were probably dismembered and put in quite a few garbage bags as it would be difficult for a single individual to drag one whole body a mile through the woods. I wonder if the blood found at his house indicated that he had dragged the bodies in garbage bags through the house after dismembering them in the bathroom. It is hard to find a garbage bag that did not leak a little bit if there were fluids in it along with dry trash.

I believe there is a lot LE has not told us, probably due to the gruesome nature of these murders.

May their souls rest in peace.

ok- I think I missed something in the threads... hard to keep up sometimes. Did they mentioned anything about the bathroom? I seem to recall another post talking about a "bathtub" incident... Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[Java]

After the removed Topix posts yesterday, I have really hoped against all hope that they were false.

The more that comes to the surface in this case, leaves my hope waning. I feel just un imaginably awful for poor little Sarah.

 

[SunGirl]

Hi all - I am so very sorry for that big rainbow!!!! I posted, computer froze (gee, wonder why) then went to bed. Have learned my lesson and will be more careful in the future about attachment size.

Sheesh, I am very embarrassed!

 

[mikeysmommom]

I had read on topix that Sara heard the tub running and a saw.There also was a poster who said to look in trees, that he hiked up a tree and put the bodies there.This was all before they were found.

 

[NSS]

Sheriff Barber said in yesterday's presser something to the effect that they wouldn't have found the bodies without MH's help.

I think that area had already been searched. If the bodies were concealed inside a tree, I would think a searcher could walk right past that tree and not know. Not to get too graphic, but wouldn't there be an odor? If they had taken cadaver dogs on a search of that area, I think they could have found the bodies.

GRAPHIC ALERT

I gave the searches much thought over the past week, as did we all, and reading the bathtub rumor on topix gave me a feeling of despair, beyond the horror of the situation.

I feared that possible dismembering and washing away of fluid would make it more difficult for dogs to track.
Given what we now know, I agree that without MH, these poor people would have remained missing.
The scent would be hard to track once fluids were gone, then contained within sealed bags (sealed well enough to withstand dragging and hauling into a tree), and then disguised within the realms of a rotting tree.


Oh and the leaves in his house gave me a really ewwww thought too Ronso.

 

[Java]

ok- I think I missed something in the threads... hard to keep up sometimes. Did they mentioned anything about the bathroom? I seem to recall another post talking about a "bathtub" incident... Does anyone know anything about this?

Snapdragon -
It is to aweful to repeat. I can't do it.

It was the Topix posts. They've been removed.
I would have to PM you, I won't re type it here, I can't

O.K. Mikeysmommom (above) has more guts than I do

 

[Leila]

After a week of lurking, and now that I’m part of Web Sleuths, I have to say I totally agree with the thought about how this tragedy affects all of the community. It is a terrible loss of innocence for all… not just the peers of Kody and Sarah, but for all children who have become aware of what has happened in the last week, and all those others in the community who no longer feel as safe as they once did. My prayers to all.

I feel privileged to have had an insight into the thoughts of so many caring people this past week. I, like many others, will certainly want to know the reasons why. I do, however, take comfort in knowing that there are many others who feel the same as I do.

Thanks to you all,

Wil
:twocents:
IMHO

:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths Wil!

 

[gxm]

Someone was saying there was another post on topix b4 they found the bodies about doing almost exactly what he did, hoisting them up and dropping them in a tree...did anyone else see this there??

I recall seeing or reading about that too. IIRC, it was part of the local chatter in the comments following a news story about the case. And it made me wonder how the person had that info. Were they part of the investigation? Or was it someone who knew MH and had heard him express his twisted thoughts before? And I'm very keen to know how LE knew they'd find Sarah at MH's house. I'm sure they had to get a SW so they must have had either strong evidence or a good tip.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Snapdragon -
It is to aweful to repeat. I can't do it.

It was the Topix posts. They've been removed.
I would have to PM you, I won't re type it here, I can't

O.K. Mikeysmom has more guts than I do

Sorry! I just hope LE is checking on the poster who said to look in the trees.He mentioned climbing and dropping them into a tree, very weird!

ETA The poster could not have been part of LE because this was said way before they knew where the bodies were.

 

[Java]

Oh I agree Mikey, the whole thing just gives me chills. I wonder too who "Hopeful" was, and why they'd post those things?

I am still thinking MH himself gave the tip about Sarah to LE!

 

[gxm]

I don't get so much chills when I read about where and how they were found, but more a terrible deep-down feeling that hits me right to the very depths of my soul.

A couple of things. The place where they were found was a long way removed from anywhere else they'd been looking, and it would have taken some time to find them without 'help.' In addition, being inside the burned out tree meant it would have taken a very detailed look at that particular tree in order to find them. Not what we all wanted to hear, I know.

:twocents:
IMHO

I get both chills and the gut punch and a deep deep sadness. It's so senseless, and so sick, and it can't be undone.