Murri, weren't you the one who recently asked for examples of Ramsey lies? The Ramseys said Burke didn't own a pair then when confronted with evidence that he did, the Ramseys decided they did remember.
The roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion
- Thread starter otg
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Murri, weren't you the one who recently asked for examples of Ramsey lies? The Ramseys said Burke didn't own a pair then when confronted with evidence that he did, the Ramseys decided they did remember.
Agatha_C
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I found this while doing random searching...
http://cmcorpkillers.blogspot.com/2...muerte-en-la-familia.html?zx=de0961a574a82b0d
http://cmcorpkillers.blogspot.com/2...muerte-en-la-familia.html?zx=de0961a574a82b0d
MurriFlower
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I found this while doing random searching...
http://cmcorpkillers.blogspot.com/2...muerte-en-la-familia.html?zx=de0961a574a82b0d
Thanks Agatha, there are some really lovely pics of JBR on there. There is also a pic taken with Santa and the other kids on the 23rd Dec. I wonder if this is actually the same boot and if it was taken by the cops or a tabloid? I'm going to try to match it to the footprint.
joeskidbeck
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Sunnie, where did you see photos from Patsy's funeral? Somehow, I've missed those. TIA, Becky
In the link listed a few posts up. I have seen the pictures before and there were a lot more than these two, but in this case two are enough!
It is what makes me think my theory is correct, or at least possibly correct!
God help me for saying this, you guys, but maybe they had good reason to be happy.
joeskidbeck
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You read my mind, Dave. If those two were involved it would seem that Patsy took the brunt of it all. Now she's gone and they are free to live however they choose.
Agatha_C
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And they do!!
otg
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(from another thread)
Hope you don't mind my posting your request here, Murri. It seemed more appropriate than the other thread.
The photo albums that Agatha linked is here. The photo I was referring to is in this album. And posted for your convenience is this (photo #32 of 37):
I guess what threw me off when I went through quickly was that it is oriented upside-down to the way we think. But look at it in relation to the still attached neck ligature and the mark that is below her right ear. Then you realise that the mark in the upper-right corner is on JB's right shoulder. I hadn't seen that particular mark -- only read it described in the AR. It helps to actually see what is being described.
The AR describes it like this:
"On the posterior aspect of the right shoulder is a poorly demarcated, very superficial focus of abrasion/contusion which is pale purple in color and measures up to three-quarters by one-half inch in maximum dimension."
.
MurriFlower
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(from another thread)
Hope you don't mind my posting your request here, Murri. It seemed more appropriate than the other thread.
The photo albums that Agatha linked is here. The photo I was referring to is in this album. And posted for your convenience is this (photo #32 of 37):
I guess what threw me off when I went through quickly was that it is oriented upside-down to the way we think. But look at it in relation to the still attached neck ligature and the mark that is below her right ear. Then you realise that the mark in the upper-right corner is on JB's right shoulder. I hadn't seen that particular mark -- only read it described in the AR. It helps to actually see what is being described.
The AR describes it like this:"On the posterior aspect of the right shoulder is a poorly demarcated, very superficial focus of abrasion/contusion which is pale purple in color and measures up to three-quarters by one-half inch in maximum dimension.".
Yes, that one isn't very clear, so it's hard to tell if it's bruising or lividity.
I know I've posted this before, but I enlarged the face abrasion from a clearer picture on that website. Truly, if that isn't a picture of a little face........... I was wondering about a 'brand' or something similar, maybe it's about the size to be a burn from a seal used with wax on letters? I've read that some pedophiles like to brand their victims.
(from another thread)
Hope you don't mind my posting your request here, Murri. It seemed more appropriate than the other thread.
The photo albums that Agatha linked is here. The photo I was referring to is in this album. And posted for your convenience is this (photo #32 of 37):
I guess what threw me off when I went through quickly was that it is oriented upside-down to the way we think. But look at it in relation to the still attached neck ligature and the mark that is below her right ear. Then you realise that the mark in the upper-right corner is on JB's right shoulder. I hadn't seen that particular mark -- only read it described in the AR. It helps to actually see what is being described.
The AR describes it like this:"On the posterior aspect of the right shoulder is a poorly demarcated, very superficial focus of abrasion/contusion which is pale purple in color and measures up to three-quarters by one-half inch in maximum dimension.".
I turned my laptop upside down...I can see it now. Part of the picture is obscured but you can see the shoulder "abrasion" and the check "abrasion." Thank you, I hadn't seen this before.
The one on the (posterior) back of her shoulder looks much more like an actual bruise. I can picture someone either kneeling or pressing there while tying the garrote knot, which is right above it.
We are all still right back at the beginning as far as the round marks. If they are burns, the coroner should have known it. He did not say they were, but they LOOK like they are. They may have been burns, but he chose (for whatever reason) not to say it.
We'll never know. Too bad the BPD don't seem to want to talk to HIM. Or maybe they do, but he won't talk. Only a TRIAL could have accomplished that.
I assume he testified for the GJ?
Don't you wish there was a law that said that a GJ MUST make public the explanation for their actions? They had three choices- return an indictment, dismiss for lack of evidence (despite what many think, the GJ did NOT make this decision) or do nothing. They chose to do nothing, and were not requited to explain their actions.
We are all still right back at the beginning as far as the round marks. If they are burns, the coroner should have known it. He did not say they were, but they LOOK like they are. They may have been burns, but he chose (for whatever reason) not to say it.
We'll never know. Too bad the BPD don't seem to want to talk to HIM. Or maybe they do, but he won't talk. Only a TRIAL could have accomplished that.
I assume he testified for the GJ?
Don't you wish there was a law that said that a GJ MUST make public the explanation for their actions? They had three choices- return an indictment, dismiss for lack of evidence (despite what many think, the GJ did NOT make this decision) or do nothing. They chose to do nothing, and were not requited to explain their actions.
Agatha_C
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I found this today and thought it interesting enough to post.....
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Cigars and Cigar Box)
0272
4 LOU SMIT: And I wanted to do that and
5 kind
6 of lead into various photographs, okay? I've got
7 photographs of the wine cellar. And these were
8 taken during the course of the crime scene
9 investigation. And it shows various presents in
10 the wine cellar. And I just had a couple questions
11 on that.
12 It's 263, 264, 265, 266, 267 -- I'm sorry. We'll
13 eliminate those 266, 267 and 268. we'll just
14 concentrate on the first three. And we'll just
15 show that to the camera and that will make up
16 somewhat of an image. Do you have any comments
17 about that, or does anything that looks out of
18 place? Because you're the one that knows basically
19 your house.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch
21 of gifts at FAO Swartz up in New York in early
22 December, some of which were for them were for
23 Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't
24 know they were in the closet exactly,
25 But the cigar box -- I had some cigars that I kept
0273
1 in the basement because it was kind of humid. And
2 that looks like (INAUDIBLE) like they where the
3 tobacco (INAUDIBLE).
4 LOU SMIT: And you (INAUDIBLE)?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, at least Monte Christo's
6 were there.
7 LOU SMIT: Can you remember if it was a full
8 box (INAUDIBLE) cigars?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I had taken two out, so
10 it should have been reasonably full. I can't quite
11 tell. It's like it's upside down, maybe. Or dumped
12 over.
13 LOU SMIT: You notice how the packages seem
14 to be partially opened. Can you explain this?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I can't.
16 LOU SMIT: So Patsy had gone there and
17 just kind looked to see what was (INAUDBILE)?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible. (INAUDIBLE) I mean,
19 you can figure out what's in them. The cigar box
20 was sitting on a paint can, or something like
21 that. And I believe it shouldn't have.
22 LOU SMIT: So it wasn't in the place
23 where it had been. It's not on the floor?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: And if I interpret the picture,
25 it's looks like it's kind of almost upside down on
0274
1 the floor.
2 LOU SMIT: And that's not where you remember
3 it being?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't notice any of the
5 stuff that was in the room. I was surprised I
6 didn't. all I saw was JonBenet.
7 When I put the cigar box in that room, the reason
8 that I set it down here, over here on a paint can
9 or something, and I just stuck it down there
10 because it was humid.
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Cigars and Cigar Box)
0274
11 LOU SMIT: So it was on a paint can?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: It was, yeah.
13 LOU SMIT: If you want to look at these,
14 just the photographs on this side.
15 MIKE KANE: How often did you smoke a cigar?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I couldn't smoke in the house.
17 And JonBenet would actually get after me if I
18 smoked or drank a beer. So the only time I would
19 smoke a cigar is if I drove to the airport or
20 something like that. So, once or twice a week,
21 maybe.
22 MIKE KANE: Those cigars I see are to be
23 Cuban, you must have gotten them out of the
24 country?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
0275
1 MIKE: Where did you get them from?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I used to go to Europe two
3 or three times a year.
4 MIKE KANE: So you sneaked them back through
5 Customs?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 MIKE KANE: I'm a former Fed. LOL!!!!!
0289
4 LOU SMIT: I think I'm going to just
5 switch gears right now, unless you have any other
6 questions. One thing I did want to show you on
7 picture 147 here; this again is photographs of the
8 wine cellar. There's a series of them: 146, 147,
9 148 and 149. Again, photographs of the wine cellar
10 after the search warrant was obtained.
11 And I'd like to just show them to you, Mr. Ramsey,
12 and see what you observe on these photographs,
13 whether they're in place or out of place or if
14 there's anything that seems to be different? And
15 what you remember?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, in terms of the pictures,
17 this cigar box is different, certainly.
18 LOU SMIT: And what do you mean by that?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, in terms of versus the other
20 picture, it's kind of resting on its bottom here,
21 more or less. Here it's a different box.
22 LOU SMIT: So you had more than one box
23 of cigars?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that box,
25 Romeo and Juliets. I remember this. The Cubans.
0290
1 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) the same box?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't remember that box.
3 LOU SMIT: Okay. That's it?
"At the Brown Palace in Denver we had a private room. Fifty people. A band called the 4-Nikators. Sit-down dinner, open bar, huge bottles of Dom Perigon, and even cigars on the tables for everyone. Patsy was striding around big as life, puffing on a cigar like she owned the place.
The MC was a guy in drag-tiara, fluffy fur around his Collar. Talked in a southern accent and did a monologue on Patsy-the Patsy Paugh Experience, from birth to the present. The family must have coached him. Lots of in-jokes and innuendo that I didn't understand. Then at midnight we were back on the bus. Patsy opened her presents on the way back. Everyone else was dropped off along the way, and Patsy and John were left alone on the bus.
That was probably the last time I saw JonBenet alive. Early that evening, before we left Patsy and John's home, both kids got on the bus to say hello to their grandparents and their aunts and uncles.
-Judith Phillips”
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Cigars in the basement)
0422
17 TRIP DEMUTH: Nothing out of the ordinary in
18 photo 254, 255 and 56?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
20 TOM HANEY: 263 and 64.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Close ups of those.
22 TOM HANEY: Also appear to be.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
24 TOM HANEY: Do one or both of you smoke
25 cigars?
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Cigars in the basement)
0423
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No one does.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay. Were they normally kept
3 there?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, he must -- I don't know.
5 TOM HANEY: Is that taboo in the house to
6 have them?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He probably put them in
8 there because it was an airtight place. It was cool.
9 I don't know what you do with cigars.
10 TOM HANEY: A humidor.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: A can.
12 TOM HANEY: Wasn't like he was hiding them
13 from you?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
Two things I have to say about this..
LIES!
Could the marks be Cigar burns????
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Cigars and Cigar Box)
0272
4 LOU SMIT: And I wanted to do that and
5 kind
6 of lead into various photographs, okay? I've got
7 photographs of the wine cellar. And these were
8 taken during the course of the crime scene
9 investigation. And it shows various presents in
10 the wine cellar. And I just had a couple questions
11 on that.
12 It's 263, 264, 265, 266, 267 -- I'm sorry. We'll
13 eliminate those 266, 267 and 268. we'll just
14 concentrate on the first three. And we'll just
15 show that to the camera and that will make up
16 somewhat of an image. Do you have any comments
17 about that, or does anything that looks out of
18 place? Because you're the one that knows basically
19 your house.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch
21 of gifts at FAO Swartz up in New York in early
22 December, some of which were for them were for
23 Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't
24 know they were in the closet exactly,
25 But the cigar box -- I had some cigars that I kept
0273
1 in the basement because it was kind of humid. And
2 that looks like (INAUDIBLE) like they where the
3 tobacco (INAUDIBLE).
4 LOU SMIT: And you (INAUDIBLE)?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, at least Monte Christo's
6 were there.
7 LOU SMIT: Can you remember if it was a full
8 box (INAUDIBLE) cigars?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I had taken two out, so
10 it should have been reasonably full. I can't quite
11 tell. It's like it's upside down, maybe. Or dumped
12 over.
13 LOU SMIT: You notice how the packages seem
14 to be partially opened. Can you explain this?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I can't.
16 LOU SMIT: So Patsy had gone there and
17 just kind looked to see what was (INAUDBILE)?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible. (INAUDIBLE) I mean,
19 you can figure out what's in them. The cigar box
20 was sitting on a paint can, or something like
21 that. And I believe it shouldn't have.
22 LOU SMIT: So it wasn't in the place
23 where it had been. It's not on the floor?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: And if I interpret the picture,
25 it's looks like it's kind of almost upside down on
0274
1 the floor.
2 LOU SMIT: And that's not where you remember
3 it being?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't notice any of the
5 stuff that was in the room. I was surprised I
6 didn't. all I saw was JonBenet.
7 When I put the cigar box in that room, the reason
8 that I set it down here, over here on a paint can
9 or something, and I just stuck it down there
10 because it was humid.
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Cigars and Cigar Box)
0274
11 LOU SMIT: So it was on a paint can?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: It was, yeah.
13 LOU SMIT: If you want to look at these,
14 just the photographs on this side.
15 MIKE KANE: How often did you smoke a cigar?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I couldn't smoke in the house.
17 And JonBenet would actually get after me if I
18 smoked or drank a beer. So the only time I would
19 smoke a cigar is if I drove to the airport or
20 something like that. So, once or twice a week,
21 maybe.
22 MIKE KANE: Those cigars I see are to be
23 Cuban, you must have gotten them out of the
24 country?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
0275
1 MIKE: Where did you get them from?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I used to go to Europe two
3 or three times a year.
4 MIKE KANE: So you sneaked them back through
5 Customs?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
7 MIKE KANE: I'm a former Fed. LOL!!!!!
0289
4 LOU SMIT: I think I'm going to just
5 switch gears right now, unless you have any other
6 questions. One thing I did want to show you on
7 picture 147 here; this again is photographs of the
8 wine cellar. There's a series of them: 146, 147,
9 148 and 149. Again, photographs of the wine cellar
10 after the search warrant was obtained.
11 And I'd like to just show them to you, Mr. Ramsey,
12 and see what you observe on these photographs,
13 whether they're in place or out of place or if
14 there's anything that seems to be different? And
15 what you remember?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, in terms of the pictures,
17 this cigar box is different, certainly.
18 LOU SMIT: And what do you mean by that?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, in terms of versus the other
20 picture, it's kind of resting on its bottom here,
21 more or less. Here it's a different box.
22 LOU SMIT: So you had more than one box
23 of cigars?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that box,
25 Romeo and Juliets. I remember this. The Cubans.
0290
1 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) the same box?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't remember that box.
3 LOU SMIT: Okay. That's it?
"At the Brown Palace in Denver we had a private room. Fifty people. A band called the 4-Nikators. Sit-down dinner, open bar, huge bottles of Dom Perigon, and even cigars on the tables for everyone. Patsy was striding around big as life, puffing on a cigar like she owned the place.
The MC was a guy in drag-tiara, fluffy fur around his Collar. Talked in a southern accent and did a monologue on Patsy-the Patsy Paugh Experience, from birth to the present. The family must have coached him. Lots of in-jokes and innuendo that I didn't understand. Then at midnight we were back on the bus. Patsy opened her presents on the way back. Everyone else was dropped off along the way, and Patsy and John were left alone on the bus.
That was probably the last time I saw JonBenet alive. Early that evening, before we left Patsy and John's home, both kids got on the bus to say hello to their grandparents and their aunts and uncles.
-Judith Phillips”
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Cigars in the basement)
0422
17 TRIP DEMUTH: Nothing out of the ordinary in
18 photo 254, 255 and 56?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
20 TOM HANEY: 263 and 64.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Close ups of those.
22 TOM HANEY: Also appear to be.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
24 TOM HANEY: Do one or both of you smoke
25 cigars?
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Cigars in the basement)
0423
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No one does.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay. Were they normally kept
3 there?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, he must -- I don't know.
5 TOM HANEY: Is that taboo in the house to
6 have them?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He probably put them in
8 there because it was an airtight place. It was cool.
9 I don't know what you do with cigars.
10 TOM HANEY: A humidor.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: A can.
12 TOM HANEY: Wasn't like he was hiding them
13 from you?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
Two things I have to say about this..
LIES!
Could the marks be Cigar burns????