If Miranda argument is upheld

[costalpilot]

I can't see that it's gonna make a big deal anyway. Surely she was read prior to being jailed. The in Session th's focused on the fact that it was then that she told the Zanny lie and that those statements would be inadmissable but she said the same stuff after being jailed. That's her story and it hasn't changed, so what's the big deal? Course the audacity of the Universal fiasco wouln't be presented, but it's noti like she would get a pass on the Zanny story if the motion is upheld. Zanny did it Is still the " story" and what else could it be even if the motion carries?
Agree?

 

[LyndyLoo]

I can't see that it's gonna make a big deal anyway. Surely she was read prior to being jailed. The in Session th's focused on the fact that it was then that she told the Zanny lie and that those statements would be inadmissable but she said the same stuff after being jailed. That's her story and it hasn't changed, so what's the big deal? Course the audacity of the Universal fiasco wouln't be presented, but it's noti like she would get a pass on the Zanny story if the motion is upheld. Zanny did it Is still the " story" and what else could it be even if the motion carries?
Agree?

Sorry costapilot..there isnt a snowballs chance in H3 double hockey sticks that this will happen..This Judge (Perry) knows full well that most handcuffed individuals ( especially only for few minutes) are detention/detained only..NOT Arrested necessarily...Course Jose wouldnt acknowledge that....unless it could be used to HELP his defendent....

My experience in watching cases, both reality TV and other places..That Miranda is read when apprehending someone when a WARRANT is issued, or when the questioning gets stopped by perp when requests attourney, or when arrest is about to happen and miranda warning given, read and signed by interviewed person...

This whole motion is a bunch of waste of time ( Jose should know that :loser and to delay delay delay....Casey must love her living conditions to allow the putting off of this trial..Maybe she dreads the thought of "Real Prison Life":rocker:

I guess you get my opinion on this motion to supress statements by Casey...Hee Hee..Yepper, She was a cooperating witness, ( Gag myself with a spoon) trying to help or explain this whole drama...Yep..Cindy's drama trying to take away her baby ( :sick..and nothing more than a domestic dispute....again :sick:

 

[ynotdivein]

It will be interesting to see how HHJP rules on this. If HHJP wants to be ultra-cautious, he may rule that nothing is admissible after she was (oh so very briefly) handcuffed (at the request--nay, DEMAND--of her mother) by the rookie cop.

IMO, even if that happens, I don't think it will be a problem. KC's lies are such an integral part of who she is and how she operates that it will be easy for the SA to expose them without her own statements. Cue the 911 tapes. Cue the texts from TL. Cue the Universal security guard who stood at the gate when she took YM and JA there. Cue LE's own internal records of the investigation showing what happened.

IMO the worst that would come from this is that HHJP will disallow everything post-handcuffing, the defense will gloat in a most unattractive manner, and the jury will still convict ICA of murdering her child.

 

[Pattymarie]

Can someone clarify this for me?

In the confusing, spiraling out of control events of that night... the police arrived because what? A missing child?

Or was it that Cindy wanted KC arrested for stealing their car? Was she put into handcuffs (for 5 min) for this reason?

If she was supposed to be Mirandized (and wasn't) Would it have been for stealing a car?

If she hadn't been Mirandized for stealing a car (and no one that night could have possibly realized what they were stepping into)....wouldn' t Miranda just cover the car situation?

So should they have advised her that they were arresting for her stealing a car, but since they didn't anything that was said about car stealing would be thrown out? Right?

So as events escalated and she was let out of the police car...anything said about a missing child could be admitted, right? Because she was just now a mom with a missing child. Right?

(i hope i am making sense)

 

[Noddy]

Can someone clarify this for me?

In the confusing, spiraling out of control events of that night... the police arrived because what? A missing child?

Or was it that Cindy wanted KC arrested for stealing their car? Was she put into handcuffs (for 5 min) for this reason?

If she was supposed to be Mirandized (and wasn't) Would it have been for stealing a car?

If she hadn't been Mirandized for stealing a car (and no one that night could have possibly realized what they were stepping into)....wouldn' t Miranda just cover the car situation?

So should they have advised her that they were arresting for her stealing a car, but since they didn't anything that was said about car stealing would be thrown out? Right?

So as events escalated and she was let out of the police car...anything said about a missing child could be admitted, right? Because she was just now a mom with a missing child. Right?

(i hope i am making sense)

That is exactly what I am thinking. I sure hope HHJP has a timeline of the events for July 15 and 16. It's too bad that young cop didn't know exactly when the cuffs were put on.

 

[AZlawyer]

Can someone clarify this for me?

In the confusing, spiraling out of control events of that night... the police arrived because what? A missing child?

Or was it that Cindy wanted KC arrested for stealing their car? Was she put into handcuffs (for 5 min) for this reason?

If she was supposed to be Mirandized (and wasn't) Would it have been for stealing a car?

If she hadn't been Mirandized for stealing a car (and no one that night could have possibly realized what they were stepping into)....wouldn' t Miranda just cover the car situation?

So should they have advised her that they were arresting for her stealing a car, but since they didn't anything that was said about car stealing would be thrown out? Right?

So as events escalated and she was let out of the police car...anything said about a missing child could be admitted, right? Because she was just now a mom with a missing child. Right?

(i hope i am making sense)

No, for Miranda purposes it doesn't matter for which crime she was "in custody," or for which crime she was Mirandized.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

This whole tactic makes me sick. I got so mad watching JVM Friday night when they were talking about this I turned it off. Casey slept in her own bed that night, how could she have been under arrest? She was cuffed for a few minutes and then uncuffed. Being cuffed does not equal arrested. So what Baez is saying about his innocent client is that if they mirandized her she would not have talked to or "helped" the police find her daughter? It's totally ridiculous.

 

[strach304]

It will be interesting to see how HHJP rules on this. If HHJP wants to be ultra-cautious, he may rule that nothing is admissible after she was (oh so very briefly) handcuffed (at the request--nay, DEMAND--of her mother) by the rookie cop.

IMO, even if that happens, I don't think it will be a problem. KC's lies are such an integral part of who she is and how she operates that it will be easy for the SA to expose them without her own statements. Cue the 911 tapes. Cue the texts from TL. Cue the Universal security guard who stood at the gate when she took YM and JA there. Cue LE's own internal records of the investigation showing what happened.

IMO the worst that would come from this is that HHJP will disallow everything post-handcuffing, the defense will gloat in a most unattractive manner, and the jury will still convict ICA of murdering her child.

And no case for ineffective counsel with a nice pretty bow. :loser:

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe it will ALL be thrown out. I think the judge will do a SOLOMON and divide it up. Perhaps the stuff she said while in the security room at Universal will be kept out but not the statement at her home. IDK

But the 911 call has Zanny the Nanny introduced into the equation already. She spells out the name for the dispatcher and even tells her she and Caylee called the previous afternoon, and Caylee talked about her storybook. So Zanny is coming in.

And the 31 day gap is in the 911 call as well. Big hurdle for the defense right there imo.

 

[LancelotLink]

When YM said he never read her Miranda rights, i just figured he meant HE didn't read them to her, that Appy or John Allen did. I know someone there did.

 

[katydid23]

When YM said he never read her Miranda rights, i just figured he meant HE didn't read them to her, that Appy or John Allen did. I know someone there did.

I hope so. I am sure they did or we would know that already.

 

[spqr]

No, for Miranda purposes it doesn't matter for which crime she was "in custody," or for which crime she was Mirandized.

Hey AZ, thanks for all your insight. I still want to fall back on the "reasonable suspicion" initial detainment. The first officers acted on a report of a stolen car/stolen money. They had a reasonable suspicion that that crime had been commited/in the process of being committed. They could then question her about the car/money without Miranda. Correct? (Not sure if this falls under US v Terry)

The situation/crime then CHANGED at the behest of the complainant(Cindy) and she was un-detained. The New situation was a missing child, NOT a new crime but now a new victim (Casey & Caylee). The questions then focused on the missing child of which she was not yet believed to have been an active participant in her disappearence.

Thoughts?

Sorry to ramble, hard to get all those words out in a way that makes sense...lol

 

[costalpilot]

I don't know whAt the standard is. One of the IS talking heads said iwhat mattered was what the perp THOUGHT but that seems unlikely to me. I mean who knows when anyone might make that judgement. But a couple of them
entioned whether or not the perp felt free to leave and ghat seems weak to me too. Shouldn't it be when the judge determines what a reasonable person would feel under the circumstances? Ok I'm in handcuffs? Why? Because my mom fingered me for a thief, but then since the cops un cuffed me, I'm free to go, no need to read her writes. But if HHJP thinks she might have seen the cuffing a response to the missing child, then it could applly,

but the commentators big deal about the Initial Zanny lies being thrown out is overown to me, cause I,m sure they read her b4 they put her in jail. And Zanny was still the villain after that.

 

[Melanie]

I don't believe it will ALL be thrown out. I think the judge will do a SOLOMON and divide it up. Perhaps the stuff she said while in the security room at Universal will be kept out but not the statement at her home. IDK

But the 911 call has Zanny the Nanny introduced into the equation already. She spells out the name for the dispatcher and even tells her she and Caylee called the previous afternoon, and Caylee talked about her storybook. So Zanny is coming in.

And the 31 day gap is in the 911 call as well. Big hurdle for the defense right there imo.

After watching the entire hearing for 2.5 days, I have to say that I think the Universal Studios questioning will be tossed to the curb. She had lied to cops at that point, and could have been easily arresed for OOJ. She wasn't. Instead, she was escorted to a conference room (which would give me the impression that I couldn't leave). ICA knew she was in deep-doo-doo.

I wish they would have mirandized her then -- the whole right to remain silent.

Other than that, I think the reporting night events will come into play. And her written statement as well where she talks about z-t-n.

In any case, I don't think we'll lose much. I trust the judge may throw each side a bone and split it -- but JB isn't going to get everything he wants tossed - tossed.

MOO

Mel

 

[ecs5298]

After watching the entire hearing for 2.5 days, I have to say that I think the Universal Studios questioning will be tossed to the curb. She had lied to cops at that point, and could have been easily arresed for OOJ. She wasn't. Instead, she was escorted to a conference room (which would give me the impression that I couldn't leave). ICA knew she was in deep-doo-doo.

I wish they would have mirandized her then -- the whole right to remain silent.

Other than that, I think the reporting night events will come into play. And her written statement as well where she talks about z-t-n.

In any case, I don't think we'll lose much. I trust the judge may throw each side a bone and split it -- but JB isn't going to get everything he wants tossed - tossed.

MOO

Mel

BBM:

Exactly! I know they were afraid that she would clam up and they wouldn't get anymore info on the whereabouts of Caylee but in hindsight we all know that ICA would have continued to talk and talk and talk and lie and lie and lie. The Miranda warning wouldn't have stopped her from talking. She's not bright enough to realize that on her own. Now, once she lawyered up and was told to not to talk to LE, that's a different story.

In the long run, I don't think it will matter if the Universal interview gets tossed. What's going to convict her is the 31 days. There's no getting that thrown out!

 

[katydid23]

After watching the entire hearing for 2.5 days, I have to say that I think the Universal Studios questioning will be tossed to the curb. She had lied to cops at that point, and could have been easily arresed for OOJ. She wasn't. Instead, she was escorted to a conference room (which would give me the impression that I couldn't leave). ICA knew she was in deep-doo-doo.

I wish they would have mirandized her then -- the whole right to remain silent.

Other than that, I think the reporting night events will come into play. And her written statement as well where she talks about z-t-n.

In any case, I don't think we'll lose much. I trust the judge may throw each side a bone and split it -- but JB isn't going to get everything he wants tossed - tossed.

MOO

Mel

The only thing that MIGHT save the Universal conversations is the opening statements where they ask her if 'she is there by her own free will' and so on.
But even that is kind of a double edge sword, because just the fact that they spell it out might make it seem like it's the 'trick' that Baez is complaining about. Spelling it out makes it seem like they wanted her to talk without being in custody so she wouldn't lawyer up yet. So in the end, Judge P might have to throw it out.

I agree though that there is still plenty of her lies and important red flags throughout other conversations, including the 911 call.

 

[Purple Iris]

After watching the entire hearing for 2.5 days, I have to say that I think the Universal Studios questioning will be tossed to the curb. She had lied to cops at that point, and could have been easily arresed for OOJ. She wasn't. Instead, she was escorted to a conference room (which would give me the impression that I couldn't leave). ICA knew she was in deep-doo-doo.

I wish they would have mirandized her then -- the whole right to remain silent.

Other than that, I think the reporting night events will come into play. And her written statement as well where she talks about z-t-n.

In any case, I don't think we'll lose much. I trust the judge may throw each side a bone and split it -- but JB isn't going to get everything he wants tossed - tossed.

MOO

Mel

But, with the Universal interview, they bring to her attention a couple of times that though they are in a closed door office, that she knows the door is not locked, that she is free to leave, they are not holding her against her will, etc.

She acknowledges it all and still sits there and lies - even when it gets to the point that LE is plainly at their end, and getting upset with her.

 

[Turnadot]

I agree that what happened in the Universal Q&A will be tossed. Not like it matters, her talk with Yuri at Hopespring Drive will come in, imo, and the 911 tapes are in. I'm sure KC's written statement will make it in too.

I'd like to add here that even if everything after KC was handcuffed get's tossed, I still don't think the rookie cop did anything wrong that day at all. When he rolled up to that scene, it must have been chaotic as heck and he could only go on what information he had at that moment.

Also, the detectives that went with her to Universal didn't do anything wrong either, they were looking for a kidnapped baby. They were doing all in their power to get the baby's mother to talk, and I can't fault them for that at all.

 

[katydid23]

I agree that what happened in the Universal Q&A will be tossed. Not like it matters, her talk with Yuri at Hopespring Drive will come in, imo, and the 911 tapes are in. I'm sure KC's written statement will make it in too.

I'd like to add here that even if everything after KC was handcuffed get's tossed, I still don't think the rookie cop did anything wrong that day at all. When he rolled up to that scene, it must have been chaotic as heck and he could only go on what information he had at that moment.

Also, the detectives that went with her to Universal didn't do anything wrong either, they were looking for a kidnapped baby. They were doing all in their power to get the baby's mother to talk, and I can't fault them for that at all.

I agree with everything you said. I think the only reason some of it will be tossed is that the judge needs to throw Baez a bone to ease the chances of an appeal. But the cops did nothing wrong imo, even the handcuffing . Plenty of people are temporarily cuffed while the cops try and sort out a chaotic situation. It doesn't mean you are under arrest.

 

[Melanie]

I agree with everything you said. I think the only reason some of it will be tossed is that the judge needs to throw Baez a bone to ease the chances of an appeal. But the cops did nothing wrong imo, even the handcuffing . Plenty of people are temporarily cuffed while the cops try and sort out a chaotic situation. It doesn't mean you are under arrest.

We know that if JB isn't given what he wants, he already indicated (Friday) that he would take it to an appeals court, so the judge will probably ponder this, and not rule on Monday (after closing arguments). IMHO, the judge is going to make sure his decision is iron clad for an appealate issue. And if JB takes it there, we can probably expect another delay in the case. I wouldn't expect anything less from JB! After all, we listened to 2.5 days of - everyone is picking on me and they don't like me or my client. To take a quote from Charlie Sheen...DUH!

:banghead:

Mel