Kimster
Former Member
Discuss Deputy Forgey's testimony here.
http://www.wftv.com/video/27307246/index.html
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http://www.wftv.com/video/27307246/index.html
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It seemed to me that while JB was questioning him that any time the deputy was allowed to talk about something I actually wanted to hear, it was always kept very brief or the subject was changed but here are the things I found most interesting...
I won't even comment on JB's lengthy questioning about training and records and reports except to say that after watching the deputy struggle to answer JB's poorly phrased questions and then seeing how differently he was when responding to LDB's concise and specific questioning, I thought for a moment that it was a different officer on the stand. One must watch it for themselves to understand what I'm referring to, but it really was like night and day. For me whatever points JB was trying to make about poor training or poor record keeping or reports was completely obliterated when LDB went thru her questions with this witness.
JB did eventually let the deputy talk a little about what was meant by the terms "alert" and "final trained alert" and it helped me to understand a bit better about how a dog lets the handler know that he has found something with an alert (signs the handler observes in the dog's behavior like the breathing and the tail and the stance and prance) and zeroed in on the particular location with the final trained alert which is an action that the particular dog is trained to do.
I had been puzzled about comments from the A's that the dogs alerted but then didn't alert since early on and for me - I never really understood what they were talking about. And that was cleared up with the deputy's testimony here about how on the 2nd day when the dogs did not alert that some top soil and such had been removed. I'm sure that's probably been brought out before but I guess I missed it. I think that JB's purpose with this witness was to keep this testimony out of the trial, but for me it just solidified that it should be allowed and that the dog did alert on decomp in the car and that both dogs did in the yard. I did have a tiny bit of doubt about that before so I guess I'd like to thank JB for clearing that up for me!
bold by me this was also cleared up for me as well......the area the dogs alerted on had been changed in some way.....
I dont remember hearing if the yard had been under gaurd until the next day though....does anyone else know?....was the yard and area secured from anyone tampering with it until LE came back the next day?
I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.
BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...:footinmouth:
Well yes that was a textbook moment with this witness. Second only to
JB "Well how do you know the dog was giving a false positive (whatever the hell that is) on the car?"
DepF "Well because I smelled it to! I know what death and decomposition smells like. I've smelled it hundreds of times in the field, in training and while training the dogs"
Yep! He got another, previously unconsidered fully qualified professional investigative/LE witness to state in sworn testimony before the court, that he was experienced and qualified at discerning the smell of human decomposition, and that he clearly smelled it in that vehicle. :banghead: WAY TO GO JB! :banghead:
Out of all the witnesses I've watched so far, he was clearly the most nervous. JB bounced all over the place and confused him several times. I think it's clear he has tons of experience and cares about what he does. I will say I think he should have went over his depo testimony a lot better. He wasn't even sure where his dog started when inspecting the car. The women K-9 officer did a much better job testifying IMO.
Out of all the witnesses I've watched so far, he was clearly the most nervous. JB bounced all over the place and confused him several times. I think it's clear he has tons of experience and cares about what he does. I will say I think he should have went over his depo testimony a lot better. He wasn't even sure where his dog started when inspecting the car. The women K-9 officer did a much better job testifying IMO.
I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.
BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...:footinmouth:
I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.
BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...:footinmouth:
IIRC, he was on the stand a lot longer than the other officer....the questioning (nit picking) that he got from jb was repetitive--think any nerves that he showed were due to what jb was trying to accomplish (Failed---and bad very bad attempt)---to get him to say what ever jb was after...he has a very weird questioning thing---goes from one thing to another than back---he was also playing aggresser...I felt for the officer along with the good doctor....it was painful on my end --- I can only imagine what it was like for them...they would answer and if he didn't like it well---another five hours....