Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

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Hi everyone! Im popping out of my lurking closet to add some of my own feelings. While I do not believe she is innocent, I also dont believe she premeditated the murder. Something GA said in the beginning about a lie that keeps getting bigger and bigger has stuck with me. And the reason it has stuck in my mind is a personal experience I am going to share. Sorry if it is long, but I have wanted to share this since "day 31". Just finally got the courage. :great:

I am an Army wife, and with that comes constantly making new friends and getting to know them in an expedited way. We move our lives around the world and begin a new life at each and every location we move to. We are forced to do the same thing over and over..look for someone with something in common that we can pass time with. We get to know people based on what they share about themselves, and often dont have much reason to doubt their stories. We just want to make friends and secure a support system with others who are in the same position. That being said, here is my experience with someone that has given me a view into ICA and her mind.

I met this person through the normal channels. Through neighbors. I was invited to a baby shower for this person. I was told she was having twins, and I found out that her DH worked side by side with my DH. Also, I have twins, so there is a factor that automatically put us on the fast track for a new friendship. As many of us do, we gossip. And gossip some more. I am the type of person who doesnt like to get involved in it, but still listen. As my neighbors were setting up for the shower, I came to offer a hand. A few ladies were talking about the Mom to be. They were saying that she had just lost a baby some months back. The baby was "born in pieces". I thought how awful, but born in pieces? Huh? Really? They went on to say that she drove herself to the hospital, lost the baby, and the same day, came home and told everyone about her horrible ordeal. My hinky meter was on overdrive, but I stayed quiet. My jaw was on the ground anyways, so Any words I would have said would have been less than audible. The wonderful neighbors all pulled together and started collecting donations and even contacted the DH's unit. They paid for a funeral, and gave extra money for whatever hardships she may endure. That's just how we roll, we support each other as much as we can with the hope that if we are ever in need, someone will do the same. Since that particular incident happened before my time, I brushed it aside thinking I may not be getting the right story. It was punch bowl gossip at that point. Fast forward to the twins she was now preparing to have. The ladies were saying they didnt think she was even really pregnant. I thought "No way...you couldnt make up something like being pregs with twins." I have twins and I know how huge you get. They also said she was having identical girls. I could be wrong, but my doc told me he could not be sure if they are identical or fraternal until birth. Not sure if it was just my particular case, or every twin mom to be. They asked me what I thought, and since I had never met this woman, I just said I didnt want to pass judgement and feel stupid when she came home with twins. So, when she finally arrived and I saw her for the first time, my opinion was that she LOOKED pregnant, but not "twins" pregnant. This woman was so much like ICA was with her friends. The always there, and ready to help kind of friend that is hard to find. The almost too good to be true heaven sent friend. Much like ICA was with the group of friends she had. The texts between herself and Amy H were so familiar to me. This woman was good. And we quickly became close friends. She showed me a sealed box that held the ashes of the baby that was born in pieces. In the back of my mind, I had that nagging voice, but decided to push it aside and give this woman the benefit of the doubt. She was due to give birth in 2 weeks. Knowing what I know about birthing twins, I know most docs wont let you go too far over the expected due date, which is in my experience around 34 weeks.

When I went over to her house to help her set up for the babies, I noticed most of the gifts she received at the shower were nowhere to be found. And there was no cribs, just a room with a desk for her arts and crafts and scrapbooking things. She told me she refused to set up until the babies came home because she didnt want to jinx it. Ok, fine. Later, I found out she had returned all of the gifts she could and pocketed the cash. So, her 34 weeks came and went. There were a few nights she offered to babysit for me so I could go out. We military wives usually jump on offers like that. More on that later....(again, sorry this is so long!!!)

Right around week 38, this woman called me and asked if I could come over she needed to talk to me. When I got there she informed me that she had lost the twins that day. She was crying and hysterical, telling me she lost the twins, got her tubes tied, and came home all in the same day. I decided to distance myself from that day on. She did come around to talk to me once in awhile. Shortly after, she asked me if she could come and spend nights at my house because she told her DH that she got a job doing security work. She didnt. For about 1 week, she came to my door, dressed in a security guards uniform. She would sit and talk all night long. She confided to me that she was writing checks for cash at our PX, and it has totalled over $5000! All in her DH's name. Since he is the soldier, anything done by his dependants directly affects him. And I felt like she was bringing me directly into the path of deceit. My Dh finally had enough and told her Dh she wasnt working. We pretty much stopped talking at that point. She went on to become pregnant with twins AGAIN. She had the maternity clothes and all. Just like before. People would spot her at Wal mart returning things on a normal basis. It was all just too creepy. The lies never stopped. They were soon transferred to Germany. She was still pregnant when she left. About 2 years later, we were transferred to Germany. I got in contact with her to see if she could give me advice. She told me they now had 3 kids and another on the way. Didnt believe it, but we were in different places in Germany so it didnt affect me much. Oh, as we were packing to move, I noticed that my baby books were not in the same place I stored them. I looked through them, and ALL of my Ultrasound pics of the twins were gone. No doubt taken when she so graciously offered to babysit for me. 2 years ago, I found out that her DH was in Iraq and commited suicide. Upon looking for obituaries for our friend, it listed her and his cat as his ones left behind. Not the "kids" they had. The miracle kids, mind you, because she got her tubes tied, remember?

Ok, now as for my feelings for ICA and her guilt. I dont believe she planned to murder her child. I believe there was an accident. I believe she died in the swimming pool. Sometimes, I forget about all of the drama surrounding the 31 days, and just think about the first day. The flurry of calls, and then nothing for hours. The shovel borrowing, backing the car in. The dogs hitting in a spot in the yard. The A's saying the gate wasnt where it should have been. I think, IMO, she borrowed the shovel in order to bury Caylee, but for some reason did not do it, instead put her in the trunk. Perhaps she went into shock or was worried about being spotted. But the body in the trunk tells me she did not plan it. If she had, she would have made sure to have plans to dispose of her body. She was great at making up complete lies that got so deep. If she planned a murder, IMO, she would have planned it well. Her entire life was one enormous lie. She went into panic mode. And that is where she tied all of her previous lies into the story. The "nanny", had been mentioned before. Telling CA she was out of town for work. She did not plan on the A's doing what they did. The chloroform......I cant understand it. Unless she was researching it because her friend had some sort of picture about chloroform on his myspace or facebook. The duct tape, well, if it was placed there before death, that is hard to argue. And would be the only reason I would think she premeditated it. But it just doesnt fit for me. Perhaps she used the tape on a regular basis to cover her mouth if Caylee needed a time out and wouldnt stop crying. The heart sticker makes more sense that way. Like ICA was punishing her with tape over the mouth, but putting a pretty sticker would make caylee think it was normal. (I used to have time out chairs with my kids names lol) Maybe Caylee suffocated while in a time out. I just feel strongly that it was an accident that started everything. I do hope she never sees the light of day again and is never permitted to live among us, but not the death penalty. Just like my old friend, she created a whole story and brought people into it. ICA just didnt have the option to start a brand new life with brand new people such as my friend did. She didnt have the luxury of starting all new lies with nobody to call her on it. Unless you count the letters between herself and the other inmate. That looks like the beginning of a whole new story and set of lies. Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to tell the story for so long now. Justice for Caylee!!!!

I respect your opinion - I am just wondering what you think of the searches for chloroform and neck-breaking and household weapons...to me that at least points to her having something in her mind about killing Caylee. And also what do you think would make her basically make an accident look like a murder (w. duct tape, etc.)? Just curious
 
Snipped for space and BBM.

Interesting thought here about Casey not expecting her daughter's body to be found. Just last night, in reading another post, it popped into my mind that perhaps Casey did expect and did want the body found.

I think the lies about the Nanny taking her daughter and the unusual wrapping and the amount of the tape around the child's head ties in with an attempted proof of kidnapping - what Casey was claiming happened to her daughter.

She claims the child was taken, she does her best and goes out of her way to make officials believe in the fictional babysitter: She gives a name and address and even builds a background and personality for the fake babysitter. Besides telling everyone who inquires about Caylee during the 31 days that her daughter is with "the Nanny."

It would seem to me that having the remains found with evidence of the body being bound with tape, in Casey's mind, shows a kidnapping did occur.

However, the big problem for Casey is that she didn't go far enough in realizing that all she was telling them about her fictional Nanny could be proven false. IMO Casey believed LE would buy her story, everyone else had in her past when she needed to lie. Especially her own family.

In summary I am now leaning toward the fact, although Casey took steps to hide the body, she did expect her daugher's remains to be found and laid her money on the fact that the appearance of the tape surrounding the head would prove a kidnapping.
jmo

It just dawned on me that the fact that KC set up a myspace page for Zanny could indicate premediated murder.
 
I think there is a difference between the heading on this thread and the question you are asking. In other words, very very few people who look at the info we know so far are going to say she is 'INNOCENT,' imo.

However, you are asking if people might think she is innocent of FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

I think it was most likely a rage killing. She was very angry at her mother after the fight on Fathers day and the mothers threat to take custody of the child and kick Casey out of the house forever. So in that red zone state I think she lashed out at Caylee.

But I think the computer searches about neckbreaking and chloroform and household weapons were with her folks in mind. I think she was premeditating their eventual murder, but snapped and killed her baby in a rage. I doubt the state will lay that theory out however.

So I guess I agree somewhat with your statement, that she may be innocent of first
degree murder---but she is far from INNOCENT, imo.

I too think that it was a rage killing and to spite her mother. Payback in other words.
 
Incorrect, most threads on WS and this case in particular are TOPIC SPECIFIC and since most threads are about her being guilty and everyone calling for her head I thought it would be nice to have a thread for those of US who may not agree with that and may think she is innocent and maybe someone else killed the child.

Just throwing ideas around as to the possibility of her being innocent and I wanted a thread where like minded people ie those who think she may be innocent could be heard since its impossible for such a person to be heard in all the other threads where the majority of posters have made up their mind and cant wait for her to be sent to the gallows.

Actually, there have been a few threads that have tried to prove she was innocent. Honest theories, researched and couldn't hold water. I've posted on a few of them. I try to look to both sides.

All theories are cut up and put under a microscope to see if they hold water. All in an attempt to figure out what happened. No theory is getting a pass.

IT sounds like that this thread is about just listing possible ideas, without doing any research or fact checks. Just believe, to believe. Don't post anything that puts disbelieve in a theory.

In order to make a theory possible, it has to stand up the the research and fact checking.
 
Thats a tough one because I admittedly have not seen everything but I will say this, I would never vote for the DP, I am firmly against and as I said my gut tells me she is involved somehow, I think it would be very tough for to be vote not guilty, I would really need to know lesser charges included would be before I could really answer this but I am not going to lie to you, based STRICTLY on what I know and I would say I probably know as much as most of you who have followed the case, and assuming the state doesnt bend over backwards in their presentation but just lays it out there, based on what I know right now today I would likely vote not guilty simply because I dont think the state can prove it an I am one of those guys that would rather see ten guilty people go free rather than one innocent person lose their freedom, but again if the state does an extraordinary over the top job and I think Ashton in particular is capable and very likable, I could be swayed for a guilty verdict.

That is why the trial has 2 phases. One is about wither or not she is guilty. What the punishment should or might be, shouldn't be considered. Just wither the SA proved guilt.

The punishment phase, that is where one decides the punishment. It is only after the person is found guilty, that you would have to decide if the crime fits DP. All that time on mitigating factors in hopes that someone who by law should get DP, can get out of it.

Personally, While I don't believe in the DP because of past errors. I wouldn't see myself as 'giving' the DP. To me, it's more about following the law in the area. If the law says that such crime equals DP, that it's the law that says DP. I would just be an insurance that someone isn't abusing the law. My vote would be more along the lines of 'Yep, that is what it says. Sorry"
 
This is not a debate thread so if you believe she is guilty please post those sentiments in other threads where such discussions take place. This thread is for those who feel she might be innocent OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER, you may feel she is guilty of other lesser included charges OR innocent of everything. This is a place to come and chat with others who may share that same sentiment.

Tell us why you think she is innocent of first degree murder or any murder at all and what you think really happened to Caylee.

All theories relating to Casey Anthony's possible innocence of first degree murder are welcomed and encouraged here, those who disagree wrt her innocence should not post here to try and rebut the theories wrt to her possible innocence.

Once the thread gets going a bit I will offer some of my own views wrt to the possibility that maybe she is innocent.

I will start off by saying I indeed think she is innocent of first degree murder simply because I havent seen any evidence to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of premeditated first degree murder.


Please offer your opinions for the sake of open and honest discussion only.
|BBM|

[1] Posts do not seem to be tracking per the limitation stated in the OP. Just an observation.

[2] Premeditation is not required for conviction of first-degree murder in Florida, as has been pointed out here and elsewhere.

:twocents:
 
This is not a debate thread so if you believe she is guilty please post those sentiments in other threads where such discussions take place. This thread is for those who feel she might be innocent OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER, you may feel she is guilty of other lesser included charges OR innocent of everything. This is a place to come and chat with others who may share that same sentiment.

Tell us why you think she is innocent of first degree murder or any murder at all and what you think really happened to Caylee.

All theories relating to Casey Anthony's possible innocence of first degree murder are welcomed and encouraged here, those who disagree wrt her innocence should not post here to try and rebut the theories wrt to her possible innocence.

Once the thread gets going a bit I will offer some of my own views wrt to the possibility that maybe she is innocent.

I will start off by saying I indeed think she is innocent of first degree murder simply because I havent seen any evidence to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of premeditated first degree murder.


Please offer your opinions for the sake of open and honest discussion only.

JMO, I think the thread title is a bit misleading, requires a yes or no. If the answer is no, then that means guilty and doesn't belong here per your post...Maybe "For those who believe KC is innocent"
 
No, KC is not innocent.

She has had more than enough time to explain an accident. There is no other BEING who would have taken Caylee . . . she may be innocent until proven guilty, but there is no doubt in my mind the State's Attorneys have it all laid out for us & will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

LWOP, baby!!!!
 
Lump me in with those who think the title of your post may be inappropriate. If the title were, "Tell me why you think she may be innocent", or "Why do you think she may be innocent of 1 degree murder"... Well, OK. But to ask, "Is Casey Anthony possibly innocent?"... then post you don't want to hear from us if we don't think she could possibly be innocent, seems to me a bit disingenuous, or at the least miss-titled.
 
The day her little girl went 'missing' she went and rented a movie .
When my oldest was 3 he got lost at the supermarket . I was so upset , running , looking , asking everyone . They locked the doors and we searched and he was found 5 minutes later in the bakery eatting a cupcake .
That's how people search for their lost children ..that's what it boils down to for me .
 
yes its possible she is innocent

a lot of things are possible

its obvious she is not innocent, however,

imo.

I am interested in hearing the obviousness of it because I sure dont see it, and I dont mean gut feeling or a hunch I mean actual concrete evidence that proves her guilt. Do share.
 
I am interested in hearing the obviousness of it because I sure dont see it, and I dont mean gut feeling or a hunch I mean actual concrete evidence that proves her guilt. Do share.
Didn't you post earlier you weren't interested in hearing why we believe she couldn't possibly be innocent? There are 10's of threads dealing with exactly why I (many of us) think she is guilty of first degree murder. The sharing and debating of the evidence as we know it has taken up thousands of pages. Perhaps you haven't read any of these other threads? Because there are many, many detailing all the evidence as we know it.
 
|BBM|

[1] Posts do not seem to be tracking per the limitation stated in the OP. Just an observation.

[2] Premeditation is not required for conviction of first-degree murder in Florida, as has been pointed out here and elsewhere.

:twocents:

BBM

See the post below in reference to the portion I bolded.

states he is not a moderator in Caylee's forum, but in his humility, he fails to mention he is a WS Administrator. :)

I strongly suggest that everyone who chooses to participate in this discussion read his post below.

I am not a moderator in this forum, but I'm going to post something that I have posted other places before and will probably post again.

It is very uncommon here at Websleuths that we restrict debate on a particular thread - generally confined to threads where people the admins have vetted as experts give opinions to inform others. Anyone here is free to start a thread on anything they want to discuss as long as they follow the TOS. People can ask that the debate be limited, but the moderators will not enforce that restriction.

Any sort of attack against the thread starter for holding an unpopular opinion is a TOS violation, however, so keep that in mind.

Now.

Argumentum ad populum is fallacious. There is no difference in the requirement to make your case whether you are the only person that holds a certain position or the entire population save one person holds that position. And it can be difficult to make an argument that goes against popular opinion, so I commend anyone who wishes to go down that road. To restate the TOS for this case:

--The fact that someone presents a position that the majority does not hold does not make them stupid, ignorant, illogical or wrong. Look to the argument made and discuss that, not the motivation of the proponent.

--The fact that someone agrees with a position held by the majority does not make them stupid, ignorant, illogical or wrong. Look to the argument made and discuss that, not the motivation of the proponent.

I trust this is the only time I'll need to post this screed on this thread. Thank you.

BBM
 
I respect your opinion - I am just wondering what you think of the searches for chloroform and neck-breaking and household weapons...to me that at least points to her having something in her mind about killing Caylee. And also what do you think would make her basically make an accident look like a murder (w. duct tape, etc.)? Just curious

I thinkt her looking up the neck breaking and weapons was related to her wanting to do something to her parents. IMO she wanted them gone so she could have the home and build on the lie she started telling AH. I stated that the only thing that would make me think premeditated was the duct tape. Everything is just so strange, I think of a theory, and then something else comes up and destroys that theory. I guess I just maybe dont want to believe she wanted to be rid of Caylee. If it wasnt an accident, I dont believe she planned it out for weeks before. Rage over cindy? Maybe. Do I think anyone but ICA will ever really know, Nope. Sadly. Thanks for reading my post earlier!!!
 
I have believed for a very long time that Casey fell asleep "on the job" or was busy myspacin' and the baby snuck in to the pool and drowned. That flurry of phone calls helps that idea along. But in Florida, I would assume drownings are unfortunately a regular news blip. Everyone probably knows someone who knows a story about a kid drowning or near drowning....I would think that she wouldn't have been scared to call 911 to report a fall in the pool because it is a relatively common tragedy. What would stop her is if the baby was in that pool for hours. Thats gross neglect - she couldn't admit to that!

To me, the duct tape is part of the staging for the lies she told AFTER finding her daughter dead.

I believe that all the lies fed themselves and got bigger than she ever expected. I think most of those lies were for her parent's benefit and she was almost forced to keep them going because she had already told them...know what I mean?

I think initially she stayed away because she was afraid a freaking bone was gonna fall out of her mouth at any second if she was at the house (where I believe the death occurred) but then whilest she is out - she gets the "OMG I'M FREE! I CAN DO WHAT I WANT ! I CAN EVEN RENT FREAKING SCARY MOVIES NOW !" energy boost and the rest is a direct result of youngminded selfishness.

The searches themselves aren't suspicious to me - I have TONS of creepy searches and probably what one would call an excess of true crime searches (lots of dead children news links etc) but I have no desire to kill my kids. But if one of them (god forbid!!) went missing, I'm sure my google history would hurt me.

SA is going to have to prove well to me as the 13 Juror all the science behind the chloroform in the trunk. Iz confused.
 
I have believed for a very long time that Casey fell asleep "on the job" or was busy myspacin' and the baby snuck in to the pool and drowned. That flurry of phone calls helps that idea along. But in Florida, I would assume drownings are unfortunately a regular news blip. Everyone probably knows someone who knows a story about a kid drowning or near drowning....I would think that she wouldn't have been scared to call 911 to report a fall in the pool because it is a relatively common tragedy. What would stop her is if the baby was in that pool for hours. Thats gross neglect - she couldn't admit to that!

To me, the duct tape is part of the staging for the lies she told AFTER finding her daughter dead. I believe that all the lies fed themselves and got bigger than she ever expected. I think most of those lies were for her parent's benefit and she was almost forced to keep them going because she had already told them...know what I mean?

I think initially she stayed away because she was afraid a freaking bone was gonna fall out of her mouth at any second if she was at the house (where I believe the death occurred) but then whilest she is out - she gets the "OMG I'M FREE! I CAN DO WHAT I WANT ! I CAN EVEN RENT FREAKING SCARY MOVIES NOW !" energy boost and the rest is a direct result of youngminded selfishness.

The searches themselves aren't suspicious to me - I have TONS of creepy searches and probably what one would call an excess of true crime searches (lots of dead children news links etc) but I have no desire to kill my kids. But if one of them (god forbid!!) went missing, I'm sure my google history would hurt me.

SA is going to have to prove well to me as the 13 Juror all the science behind the chloroform in the trunk. Iz confused.

ITA with everything you just wrote. Especially the searches. I say all the time that if I were ever to become involved in something such as this, my searches would make me look so bad. Nobody knows why she did the searches, and there was no broken neck or weapons used, or at least proof of that.
 
So does a death by drowning accident which was later staged to be a kidnap murder rise to the level of a DP case?
 
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