Why would the DT not use a mental defense?

people like KC fit a certain mold, they dont usually do anything for anyone
just for the sake of doing it. many times normal people do nice things for each other because they want to help or make something easier or just because they like/love the other person AND want nothing in return.

People like KC will only do something for someone if they think there is something in it for them.

which goes against one of the most basic rules in life which is....

I learned it when I was about 5 years old, granted it took a few more years for me to really grasp it.. but she never was taught it or learned it herself
 
I do recall a few people who have stated Casey was not smart. I do not know if or when her friend Annie will take the stand and testify or if that will be brought up. IMO she isn't very bright at all. Problem is her bs was just accepted for so long. Scott Peterson had a history of bs'ing friends, etc. we found out at trial and he was never called on it, they just accepted it. My experience is it's embarrassing. In Casey's case Annie said that was the reason for ending the friendship, she got tired of it. Casey didn't finish school or later pursue a GED instead lied about attending Valencia. When she needed money she stole it she didn't work.

Keep in mind that people who lie a lot will play dumb when caught in an inconsistency and can often get the reputation as an "airhead" or as "forgetful" if not outright stupid.

I dealt with someone very much like Casey in the lying sense (although the person I knew seemed to have a soul at least :innocent:) and a few friends would comment that he was "stupid" and couldn't be relied on for various reasons even though I knew this person had been in the gifted program when we were younger.

It's like it was better to look dumb than appear malicious. He would just do pretty much whatever he wanted, and when confronted he would make up some type of self-blaming BS that made himself out to be kind of an idiot. Casey sounded the EXACT same way as this friend of mine on those tapes where she's spinning the BS about why she never reported Caylee missing. "I'm not evil, duh, I'm just too bloody stupid to get help from the police and thought I'd find my child in a nightclub."

It's a way to elicit pity and diffuse anger at the same time while making it less likely that people will hold you accountable when you screw them over in the future. It's probably a big reason why people tolerated her for longer than they should have...and it also explains why people didn't question her as much when she just didn't make sense.
 
Lying is not, in itself, a problem. It becomes one when the person is lying when there is no reason to lie. When they have deceived themselves and their entire world is built on lies..then it is serious.

And there is one major thing about her lies which negates the fact that she lied BECAUSE OF sexual abuse in the home. Casey lied about her job ands college and the nanny and her boyfriend who gave her a Tiffany ring. Those lies were crafted for her family as a way to hide WHO CASEY WAS. She did not lie about her family to others in the same way she lied about herself, and who she was.

I think she told the truth essentially about her parents arguing and being on the verge of divorce. But her lies were predominantly told to make herself look better, not to make her family look better. She did not lie to cover up an ugly family life, she lied to cover up an ugly soul. imoo
 
Casey definitely has a mental disorder, and as far as I know, psychopath and malignant narcissism has now been lumped in with other personality disorders as mental illness. It no excuse though. The prisons are full of people with these problems and they might act up and lie, but know better than to kill or commit crimes. What I'm really sick of is hearing people on the talk shows saying that Casey really believes her lies. That is bs. She admits to her lies, admits to stealing, but she changes from one lie to another to fit what she needs to do. She is said to have looked up missing kids along with the other computer searches, so Caylee just coming up abducted and missing must have been the original plan. Casey "knew in her gut" that Caylee was still alive, and she probably got that from reading of other parents' feelings who truly do have missing kids. People keep trying to make excuses for her. Society is helping to enable these disordered people by blaming family and making all sorts of excuses for their actions and their thinking.
 
Has anyone here seen or read The Bad Seed? (The film came out in the mid 50's) with Patty McCormick playing the clever but evil little girl, who as a young girl has already committed murder and done other evil deeds, but with her sweet personality and incredible ability to lie, gets away with it. Cayce reminds me of the girl in that story, which means she could have been doing evil things for years, but getting away with it.. In the book it reveals that she had a grandmother who was also evil, but after a few murders and other evil deeds, she disappeared, and the grandchild was adopted. The film does not mention a grandmother with such a personality. But it's possible. Many types of qualities are inherited, such as the ability for music or athletic ability. The book and Broadway play won many awards. The film, with Patty McCormick as the young girl, is still available at Amazon. This trial reminded of that film, though the girl in the film is much younger than Cayce. The story is chilling.
 
It is too late for a mental health defense, they certainly are trying though. My concern is that the defense has admitted that ICA is a liar and everything the STATE has shown (among other things), is that ICA is certainly a liar. Almost as if the State is reinforcing the defenses' case admitting that she is a liar, with almost every witness the state puts on. It kind of IMO negates the SAO's case in chief, hate to say that but through the jurors eyes, the SAO and DT both say she is a liar. I guess if I knew nothing of this case I would lean toward ICA being responsible for the demise of Caylee. I think best case she will get convicted of aggravated child abuse/neglect and the accompanying lesser charges. 30 years on each charge to be served continously, re: 60 years. MOO
 
Ed Kemper who was the co-ed killer and decapitated all of them did not have an insanity defense. He knew the difference between right and wrong, as does ICA. Insanity is a legal term and ICA will never fit it. She is a sociopath and this is the way many of them act. She manipulates and mimics. She doesn't have one original thought. She lives in the moment. She will split people and use their own words against them.

She has plenty of Personality Disorders...all Cluster B, which are Axis IIs and do not qualify as a diagnosis of mental disorder. Axis I is needed to qualify for a mental disorder but even that doesn't qualify for insanity most of the time...unless there is psychosis (which she doesn't have).

:tyou: for this post Whisperer
BBM

Your whole post was great, the part in bold in particular. You have offered your insights in previous posts, I find them to be extremely helpful in trying to understand a person like Casey-more than that, I look forward to the next time you share.

Any of the following I did on this case, (almost every single day for two years) did not prepare me for the Casey that is now revealed. I am overwhelmed at the realization she truly embodies all the characteristics I have read about regarding sociopaths. I agreed with that assessment as I was following but had not experienced it for myself. When Casey made the switch to an accidental drowning covered up by George-all that I had gleaned came rushing into focus with disturbing realizations as I am now able to apply that "data" to what I have personally witnessed. Those revelations leave me with this thought process: I think Casey Anthony is a good example of why it is important to cultivate your soul. Maybe she proves the existence of such a thing as a soul by not having one. Or having one that is not effective in keeping the ego in check. Less soul equals more ego, if you will.

And Caylee would be an example of a beautiful soul, also showing us souls exist. For people that do not believe in any such things, I would never argue any of this with anyone in any manner, I offer this in the spirit of being philosophical- as is my nature. My understanding of any thing metaphysical comes from an interest in any and all information. When all conventional information fails, I am not beyond looking for a unconventional explanation.

If Casey is not insane(to which I agree)in the sense her actions/behavior is effected by a disease of the mind, then what are we saying is wrong with her? Mind and body are intact, intellect is intact. What is left?

We say evil because we have no other word for what she is? What is wrong with her? In court we are saying someone like Casey is guilty or not guilty, not why she may have done what she did-although it has already been acknowledged a jury usually wants to know why. Even if we knew the "why" was because Casey wanted to get rid of Caylee/did not like Caylee, etc. we still feel this is not a sufficient explanation. It does not satisfy. Still speaking of the court, we have found no evidence to say she is insane or mentally ill as we define mental illness. So, again we are at a loss as to say to express what it is we do not know or understand about Casey.

Using biblical allegory, Cain and Able were both trying to please. Able gave the best of what he had right off the bat while Cain gave the second best of what he had. Able received praise and attention for what he had offered while Cain was told he could do better. Instead of Cain doing better next time, even mimicking Able by giving the best that he had-Cain opted to murder Able. Then he hid, and denied it when confronted with the evidence.

Sociopath.

If we deem Casey to be the way she is because of pure biology, or environment...even DNA, then it seems we are in the realm of it is not her fault. If I look at this case from a perspective of it being something that happened in history, I can be less personal and wonder what humanity will do to classify people who fall under this category. I do not think the court recognizes evil as a reality, well we know it does not so the court says guilty or not guilty, but as I said for some people that does not answer what it is we need to/want to know/understand about why there are these people. Maybe when we can fully understand DNA and its effects on our behavior/personality/etc. we will have more answers. In fact, I am sure we will. IMHO.

With respect and a hearty hello to those folk who don't care one whit what is "wrong" with Casey. They just want to see justice done. I admitted my philosophical nature but it is true I am thinking all that others are saying, and I feel that way about it too. It was yesterday and today that I started "not caring if Casey got the death penalty" to thinking/saying out loud to my husband, "I hope she gets the death penalty." I don't know who to apologize to when I say that was not easy for me to write that, it is not easy for me to feel that way. There is something very reactive and strong that Casey Anthony's lies and ways brings out in me that says, "get rid of her." I am not comfortable with feeling that way, but I do.

All that said, I have no issue accepting whatever the jury decides. I might have emotions and opinions but I would not take issue. I am ready to see what they decide. I respect them as those chosen to judge Casey Anthony according to our laws.

PS: the defense would not use a mental defense because Casey is not mental. She is sane as per the definition of what is sanity and insanity at this time.

:cow:
 
This is strictly personal. My husband is psychopathic narcissist. In my 15 years of therapy. I have been told this isn't a MENTAL disease. It's a personal choice.. Not sure I agree but I've been told repeatedly it is not a disease, they know right from wrong and CHOOSE wrong. 27 years with a man like this ...I'm thinking more and more the Dr's are right. He isn't ill he's evil.
MOO
 
The only reason I can think of for the defense to propose a sexual abuse victim theory (a form of diminished capacity) and refuse to present psychological testing is because the tests are seriously unfavorable for the defendant.
 
This is strictly personal. My husband is psychopathic narcissist. In my 15 years of therapy. I have been told this isn't a MENTAL disease. It's a personal choice.. Not sure I agree but I've been told repeatedly it is not a disease, they know right from wrong and CHOOSE wrong. 27 years with a man like this ...I'm thinking more and more the Dr's are right. He isn't ill he's evil.
MOO

I would have to agree with your therapist. My ex-husband was dx'd the same. It would be so much easier on the 'survivors' of disordered people if it appeared in any way to be a true mental illness. Those that love them are desperate to help them.

Instead we are confronted by people devoid of a soul - self-serving, entitled, crazy making, suck you dry and spit you out kind of predators whom we desperately try to understand.

:hug: gngr
 
Chiquita71, I think that Casey is not normal in the sense that society is unsafe with her in it. She's like Joran van der Sloot. They will continue to manipulate people to the detriment of other (even murder) for the sake of selfish gain. To say that she has lacks a soul is like saying she has no conscience - basically no concern regarding the consequences of her actions and no insight into normal reactions regarding events and consequences. Sociopaths learn to cry at the right time, they don't feel it. Mental institutions should be cleaned up so that sociopaths can be housed without being surrounded by people that turn pencils into lethal weapons ... that is ... keep them away from anyone they can harm in any way (like the jail guard that was coerced into letting Casey have a jailhouse penpal).

I don't think she is evil in the sense that her objective is to harm others. I think that for her, it's all about her - what she wants and what she is willing to do to get what she wants. The way that she talked to her parents was threatening, confrontational, angry, agressive and cold, but it turned in a split second to the nice girl. She's always calculating how to get what she wants ... because she wants everything now. For example, she was quite sweet when she announced that if only she could be set free, she could privately look for her daughter, then she could help - all selfishly motivated manipulation; not evil.
 
It is too late for a mental health defense, they certainly are trying though. My concern is that the defense has admitted that ICA is a liar and everything the STATE has shown (among other things), is that ICA is certainly a liar. Almost as if the State is reinforcing the defenses' case admitting that she is a liar, with almost every witness the state puts on. It kind of IMO negates the SAO's case in chief, hate to say that but through the jurors eyes, the SAO and DT both say she is a liar. I guess if I knew nothing of this case I would lean toward ICA being responsible for the demise of Caylee. I think best case she will get convicted of aggravated child abuse/neglect and the accompanying lesser charges. 30 years on each charge to be served continously, re: 60 years. MOO

aggravated child abuse/neglect , just wonder how that will play out with the duct tape over the mouth and nose? She drowns accidentally in the pool, so I duct taped her nose and mouth, tripled bagged her and threw her in to the swamp where I bury my dead pets and throw out other garbage? Oh, and by the way, I accidentally cloraformed (spelling) her, but I can't remember if I did this before or after I duct taped her? I didn't mean for it to happen? Sure I borrowed a shovel but I was so upset by her death that I thought that I'd do a little gardening out back to keep my mind off it? I had to park my car far from the house because it smelled so bad but Jeez your honor, I ran out of gas before I could get back home? No, I wasn't too worried about the car, I knew that my Mom or Dad would take care of that for me, they always clean up my messes? I'm just trying to see how this fits? Square peg round hole, I'm trying here. These are questions???:banghead:
 
Hi all :)

FWIW and my little ole :twocents: ... Perhaps the DT won't use mental issues as a defense ... simply b/c KC may have just been another irresponsible, reckless, unreliable teen in the run-up to her pregnancy?

Maybe KC was used to 'fibbing' from the moment she could string 2 words together; those grew into "tales" in pre-school years; as a child she may have become used to her broad smile winning people over ... with an "angelic look" to melt hearts ... and the customary fibs grew into bigger, wilder stories as a teen ... and all the while, KC's stories brought her added attraction and attention ... and lies became her crutch.

Until ... her totally self-centered lifestyle caught up with her. This crime was (in KC's mind) one little "whooops" of a dispose-and-hide that exploded into a monumental story ... and became waayyyyy "too much" for even KC's typically fabricated and embellished lifestyle could manage.

Maybe KC's just a totally spoiled brat - never been anchored in life; always forgiven, pandered to, believed & supported - to such a heightened degree ... that KC has to this day, never grasped responsibility. Perhaps she never will, either. Until, of course, her audience and demographic completely changes. Then, and only then, may we see KC crying "victim". Right now her head may actually genuinely remain in "I'm gonna get outta this and be forgiven for a naughty lil ole lie.. and a big mistake" mode?

Essentially: there may be absolutely nothing mentally wrong whatsoever with KC - as many have also alluded to. KC may just have been in front of too many cameras all her life. To her it's the face & fun, not the person & reality, that really counts.

Crying shame; shocking role model; heinous crime - the wake-up call is but around the corner, methinks.
 
Chiquita71, I think that Casey is not normal in the sense that society is unsafe with her in it. She's like Joran van der Sloot. They will continue to manipulate people to the detriment of other (even murder) for the sake of selfish gain. To say that she has lacks a soul is like saying she has no conscience - basically no concern regarding the consequences of her actions and no insight into normal reactions regarding events and consequences. Sociopaths learn to cry at the right time, they don't feel it. Mental institutions should be cleaned up so that sociopaths can be housed without being surrounded by people that turn pencils into lethal weapons ... that is ... keep them away from anyone they can harm in any way (like the jail guard that was coerced into letting Casey have a jailhouse penpal).

I don't think she is evil in the sense that her objective is to harm others. I think that for her, it's all about her - what she wants and what she is willing to do to get what she wants. The way that she talked to her parents was threatening, confrontational, angry, agressive and cold, but it turned in a split second to the nice girl. She's always calculating how to get what she wants ... because she wants everything now. For example, she was quite sweet when she announced that if only she could be set free, she could privately look for her daughter, then she could help - all selfishly motivated manipulation; not evil.

Hi Otto,

Forgive me - however I strongly beg to differ; I don't see KC & JVDS in the same category. Not nearly. May be wrong .... liars? yes they both are. Similar characters/deeds? Nope. JDVS killed for sexual gratification IMO, for starters ... he has psychopathic tendencies, IMO, of course - and I'll leave it there to save this thread going WAY off topic.

Just sayin... merely IMOO
 
Do we know for a fact that she hasn't been dx'd with any type of mental illness? I think what is confusing for a lot of people (me included) is that you can turn on NG or JVM, and they, or any of their panel, are calling her a sociopath, so the lines of fact/opinion get blurred.
 
I myself have never seen reactions and behavior like Casey's.

If there is no record of her being treated for any sort of mental issues.
Then how can defense say or prove she has any?

Usually defense has to have the medical records of the criminal...
not the Father.
Not getting why the defense did not declare her insane, she looks and acts pretty crazy...
she is very cold...
empty eyes...
hard to describe her demeaner really...
she watches herself with an expression of someone watching a movie?
A tv show?
Odd...very odd.:twocents:

and physically her temples are beginning to morph like horns....
 
I myself have never seen reactions and behavior like Casey's.

If there is no record of her being treated for any sort of mental issues.
Then how can defense say or prove she has any?

Usually defense has to have the medical records of the criminal...
not the Father.
Not getting why the defense did not declare her insane, she looks and acts pretty crazy...
she is very cold...
empty eyes...
hard to describe her demeaner really...
she watches herself with an expression of someone watching a movie?
A tv show?
Odd...very odd.:twocents:

and physically her temples are beginning to morph like horns....

She IS watching a movie. Actually, it's her own reality show and she's the star & the producer! Touch hair, adjust sleeve, pull up bra strap, touch hair, smooth eye lash, wipe corner of mouth, touch hair, Heck, where is my make-up artist? I'm ready for my screen shot Mr. DaMill. (spelling?)
 
I hate how Baez keeps asking everyone about these "imaginary" friends and implying she's crazy somehow.

I can't believe he's allowed to keep saying these things without having to back this up by a professional.

It will be up to the SA to point out this lack of defense evidence. At least in CS, and perhaps even during actual testimony.

The biggest part to come is how the SA proves KC was the only one with care/custody of Caylee, and that Caylee dies from the duct tape.
If these two parts are not proven, KC likely won't get a death sentence
 

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