The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[spartanmom]

This might not be where to post this, but, I have been reading or rather re-reading some of the threads tonight. I have come to my final conclusion on this entire case, lol,

It has been mentioned that ICA told her inmate friend that she would use chloroform to knock Caylee out so she could go out and party......I totally believe this is what took place:

ICA wanted to go out and party, she was pi**ed about the fight the night before that she and Cindy had gotten into, soooo, while back at the house, after he dad left for work, she used chloroform on Caylee, just to make sure it worked good she place the duct tape over her nose and mouth, however, it was too much and she ended up killing her daughter.

She then, ICA, freaked out and started making all the phone calls to her mom, etc., then really freaked out when she realized what she had done to her daughter.....hence, the start of the 31 day partying and all of the very odd behavior that took place.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Wow, going to chime in and revive this thread, since this is a discussion I actually know a little bit about!

My daughter had plagiocephaly as an infant. Our doctor had noticed some minor swelling on one side of her jaw that was not accompanied by injury, infection or any other explainable reason. He also noticed that her sutures were smaller than what would be normal for her age. We were referred to a pediatric neurosurgeon at the Cleveland Clinic last September to rule out craniosynostosis. Both conditions affect the skull/brain in very much the same way, but my understanding is that true craniosynostosis can only be corrected with medical intervention, helmeting, or often surgery.

So all of you can imagine, who looked at those pictures online, the fear that was in my heart for our beautiful baby girl. Thankfully, my daughter had plagiocephaly, the more minor condition of the two. The doctor said he did not think she would need a corrective helmet or surgery, but we were to come back to monitor it just in case. We went back and everything still looks okay, so now we are just to go back if we see any concerning changes. Her ears are slightly uneven, and when her hair is wet, you can tell a little bit that there is a slight asymmetry in the back of her head, but it's barely noticeable and people are suprised when they hear it because she looks so normal. You see it the best when you are looking at her from a bird's eye view, but even then, it's mild.

Craniosynostosis, as far as I'm aware, has no known cause. Plagiocephaly can be caused by positioning, i.e. babies that lay on their backs a lot. In fact, this condition was much rarer prior to 1992 when the government introduced the "Back To Sleep" campaign, encouraging parents to put babies to bed on their backs to prevent SIDS. Since then there has been something like a 500% increase in cases of plagiocephaly. We were puzzled because we did always have my daughter sleep on her back, but we didn't leave her laying there all day, we held her all the time, played with her, etc. We learned that sometimes the way the child is positioned in utero may have an affect. It's also possible that since my daughter was born early and small for gestational age (I had pre-eclampsia) that that could have been a factor as well. Positional plagiocephaly will usually not progress once the child learns to roll over, sit up, etc.

What I find odd is that my understanding from my doctor and talking to other cranio/plagio parents is that the first year of life is the critical time to catch/correct this. It would suprise me for a two and a half year old to have the "beginnings" of a cranio condition, unless it's just meant that the condition began, but didn't progress as Caylee learned to walk. Personally, I think that there would have to be other factors besides cranio/plagio to diagnose abuse. I do think I've heard that severe head trauma can cause suture closure also, so perhaps this is where they are going? Because I can tell you that the vast majority of cranio/plagio cases are not abuse related, so just the presence of the condition itself would not be enough IMHO.

I tried to attach a pic of our beautiful baby around the time she was diagnosed, so you could see it really isn't always a very noticeable condition

 

[Just Jayla]

I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV, but my lay opinion stands: Caylee's eyes in some of her last pictures looked so, so tired, gaunt. IMO, you don't have to lay a finger on a child to abuse them-keeping them sleep deprived or not addressing insomnia issues, vitamin deficiencies, etc., is abusive and neglectful.
IIRC, this is Caylee at Ricardo's. He told LE that KC would get upset with Caylee when she refused to go to sleep. But he also noted that he couldn't blame Caylee for being restless, she wanted to be up with them, watch TV with them, so many stimulants around her-and normally she would be sleeping with Casey if they were at home, she may not have wanted to go to sleep without KC in bed with her.
Repeatedly failing to provide consistency in Caylee's life so that she could stay up with her lover is neglectful, to this mom anyway:

 

[savannahanna]

Wow, going to chime in and revive this thread, since this is a discussion I actually know a little bit about!

I tried to attach a pic of our beautiful baby around the time she was diagnosed, so you could see it really isn't always a very noticeable condition

Awwww, Irish she is so adorable! What a sweet little princess! Thanks so much for sharing!:smile:
Savannahanna

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wow, going to chime in and revive this thread, since this is a discussion I actually know a little bit about!

My daughter had plagiocephaly as an infant. Our doctor had noticed some minor swelling on one side of her jaw that was not accompanied by injury, infection or any other explainable reason. He also noticed that her sutures were smaller than what would be normal for her age. We were referred to a pediatric neurosurgeon at the Cleveland Clinic last September to rule out craniosynostosis. Both conditions affect the skull/brain in very much the same way, but my understanding is that true craniosynostosis can only be corrected with medical intervention, helmeting, or often surgery.

So all of you can imagine, who looked at those pictures online, the fear that was in my heart for our beautiful baby girl. Thankfully, my daughter had plagiocephaly, the more minor condition of the two. The doctor said he did not think she would need a corrective helmet or surgery, but we were to come back to monitor it just in case. We went back and everything still looks okay, so now we are just to go back if we see any concerning changes. Her ears are slightly uneven, and when her hair is wet, you can tell a little bit that there is a slight asymmetry in the back of her head, but it's barely noticeable and people are suprised when they hear it because she looks so normal. You see it the best when you are looking at her from a bird's eye view, but even then, it's mild.

Craniosynostosis, as far as I'm aware, has no known cause. Plagiocephaly can be caused by positioning, i.e. babies that lay on their backs a lot. In fact, this condition was much rarer prior to 1992 when the government introduced the "Back To Sleep" campaign, encouraging parents to put babies to bed on their backs to prevent SIDS. Since then there has been something like a 500% increase in cases of plagiocephaly. We were puzzled because we did always have my daughter sleep on her back, but we didn't leave her laying there all day, we held her all the time, played with her, etc. We learned that sometimes the way the child is positioned in utero may have an affect. It's also possible that since my daughter was born early and small for gestational age (I had pre-eclampsia) that that could have been a factor as well. Positional plagiocephaly will usually not progress once the child learns to roll over, sit up, etc.

What I find odd is that my understanding from my doctor and talking to other cranio/plagio parents is that the first year of life is the critical time to catch/correct this. It would suprise me for a two and a half year old to have the "beginnings" of a cranio condition, unless it's just meant that the condition began, but didn't progress as Caylee learned to walk. Personally, I think that there would have to be other factors besides cranio/plagio to diagnose abuse. I do think I've heard that severe head trauma can cause suture closure also, so perhaps this is where they are going? Because I can tell you that the vast majority of cranio/plagio cases are not abuse related, so just the presence of the condition itself would not be enough IMHO.

I tried to attach a pic of our beautiful baby around the time she was diagnosed, so you could see it really isn't always a very noticeable condition

awww- she's beautiful!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

What a little cutie-pie! I'm so happy that everything turned out well and she didn't need surgery! She's just adorable!

My heart lifted a bit when I read your post because to me it seems to indicate that there is a possibility that little Caylee was not abused in the way that has been suggested based on the premature synostosis.

 

[ladybugplus]

I have always been very supportive of GA but this video is strange to me: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105657"]Collection of Anthony Family Home Videos - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame] It is the first video labeled "Strange Breakfast With Caylee"
Why would someone video underneath the highchair at little Caylee's body? It just does not seem appropriate to me. GA said on the stand when asked what Caylee called him that she called him "JoJo" and it sounds as if she is calling "JoJo" toward the end of the video when in her innocence she peeks down to see what the person taking the video is doing down there. I am not trying to accuse GA and he may not even be there taking this but it just does not feel right to me! What do you feel?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have always been very supportive of GA but this video is strange to me: Collection of Anthony Family Home Videos - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community It is the first video labeled "Strange Breakfast With Caylee"
Why would someone video underneath the highchair at little Caylee's body? It just does not seem appropriate to me. GA said on the stand when asked what Caylee called him that she called him "JoJo" and it sounds as if she is calling "JoJo" toward the end of the video when in her innocence she peeks down to see what the person taking the video is doing down there. I am not trying to accuse GA and he may not even be there taking this but it just does not feel right to me! What do you feel?

Many of us here have always assumed it was Casey videoing Caylee that day.. I agree it's a very strange video. Never even crossed my mind that it might have been George making the video but now that you mention it...

 

[butwhatif?]

This is the video where lots of people thought they could hear ICA trying to get Caylee to say "I kill" @ the 32sec mark.

ETA: There is a pretty long thread in here somewhere about it. Just did a quick search but couldn't find it.

 

[katydid23]

At that age they say names even if the person is not there. I do not think it means it was George taking the video. More likely she was asking for him, thinking about him, imo.

That did not seem like a video he would have taken, imo/

 

[Nali87]

It's a weirdvideo, but I don't hear her saying JoJo? Around what time mark?

 

[MsFacetious]

I think it was Casey making the video.

George (and Cindy) talked to Caylee on the videos, you can hear him in the little pool one, the one with Caylee playing with Casey and he is in others.

I think that in that highchair video, Casey was trying to get video of Caylee from below the highchair tray... and it just didn't work.

I personally would have deleted the video and started over. But I would have done the same thing with the coloring video or just put pants on her first... I am extremely picky.

I also do not like to talk on our videos. I don't want to talk over the kids. Unless it is something specific like "How many days till Christmas?" There is generally not adult voices on there. I am interacting with the kids from behind the camera, just not speaking.

I think Casey may have done that a little, but nowhere near as much as I do.

Seeing all the criticism of Casey on that point really freaked me out actually. :waitasec:


The pool one where you hear George, the one of Casey playing with Caylee where you hear George and the one of Caylee in the big pool with Cindy are all in here along with the highchair one and others.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT8NRsRDpMs"]YouTube - ‪CAYLEE ANTHONY HOME VIDEOS‬‏[/ame]

 

[Baznme]

They only time you will hear Casey's voice on a video is if she's in it. The only time you see a video without any interaction with Caylee, it's Casey taking the video. There are a few. Caylee tried to communicate but seemed to give up and either continue what she was doing or look off as though she were thinking. I perceived Caylee didn't trust Casey the way a child normally does with a mother. You can see it in her expression in several pictures also. Casey's behavior reminds me of a jealous sibling rather than a mother.

 

[ladybugplus]

I hope your all right in what you see in this video because I always likened George as a proud gampa..:great:

 

[Nosee_Parker]

This particular video made me absolutey fall in love with Caylee. The cute munching and toddler chat was divine.

I can't believe people would be analysing a harmless home move of a toddler enjoying breakfast :waitasec:

Shoot me, I have tonnes of videos of my kids eating at that age.

 

[gngr~snap]

This video has creeped me out in a big way! That's all I can say.
Didn't GA say he usually got up with Caylee and fed her breakfast etc...? Like ICA would bother to get up put Caylee in the highchair and prepare real food? (she was eating cooked food right? )
I watched that video a few times. It haunts me now. Don't care to verify what Caylee was eating.
IMO ICA would have given Caylee a handful of Cheerios and a sipee cup. Maybe raisins, a poptart broken up or fig Newton's. or something similar. No way she prepared a meal for Caylee.
Go ahead throw tomatoes at me!
I've just been a pediatric nurse for 20 years...
From my experience Caylee wasn't malnourished or ever hungry. ONLY because her grandma provided for her.

 

[Emeralgem]

I think it is Casey filming that video..I've noticed from the videos where Cindy and George are present they interact with Caylee.. There are several videos that are strange since there is no interaction with Caylee..Caylee, herself, seems unsure as to what is expected of her..JMHO

 

[Cubby]

I think it was ICA who made the video and was trying to play a peek a boo sort of game with Caylee. The video also made me a bit 'uncomfortable' with some of the shots/views. however, there are some adults with the mind set (and I do not mean only the A family) that would dismiss the kind of uncomfortableness this video gave us and thought something along the lines of this is child get your mind out of the gutter. It saddens me to have to mention that but having experienced it first hand- I know there are people out there who simply don't recognize those boundaries with what might be considered borderline inappropriate picture taking or film making of children.

jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

Let's assume for a moment that Casey's abuse story is true.

Let's assume that this is a video taken by George the abuser.

Casey certainly saw this video.

Look at Caylee's age.

Yet if Casey is telling the truth about George, rather than get a job...give up her free-loading partying lifestyle...she saw a disturbing video by George (if we say we believe this is George) and just offered up her Caylee as his next victim.

SHE STAYED.

That's the alternative if we believe these lies about George. Casey would be a willing enabler.,..in the abuse of her baby.

 

[kaRN]

I have always assumed it was a stoned ICA who took that video or maybe one of her lovers du jour. Caylee always seemed very animated around her grandparents in other photos and videos and rather indifferent around ICA. IMO anyway.

The opening post asks me to respond to how I feel. I feel very disturbed by the video. To be honest though, I'm even more disturbed by the thread starters assumptions that it was GA taking it. If it weren't for GA and CA, Caylee would have been double bagged and tossed out like trash moments after birth. She would have starved or been sexually assaulted by some drunk at whoevers crib ICA was crashing at or she would have been sold.
Casey owns nothing. Everything she ever had was provided to her by her family. Just because GA perhaps bought the video camera the same way he bought the duct tape doesn't mean he used the duct tape to kill his Grandaughter or used the video camera to make this disturbing video.
Casey disparaging her father doesn't make it so, rather it makes me believe the opposite so unless there is some proof that GA took this video, the assumptions made here are dangerous IMO.