Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[countzero]

Cindy's or KC's? I know you said CA but just wanted to make sure I completely understand.

CAs. LGlass never checks her work. Both the background info or spelling. I know many like her, but I take her with a grain of salt.

You beg that that if CA was asked if ICA took it, she would have declared "No mother of the year would take that. Not my ICA.". ......

 

[azwriter]

BBM~

I sort of agree AND disagree with this...LOL. Have you ever read the letters that ICA wrote to her inmate friend? It is a hard read, but veddy, veddy interesting. She tells her inmate buddy that she is now, FINALLY on her own for the first time in her life. Yup...in prison, in solitary, but in her weird mind...she is somehow living INDEPENDENTLY.

I was also taking gas at the letters from her mother, where she says that when she comes home ICA 'won't have to work'! Who in the hell-o raises their kids to think that they shouldn't have to work? I am reminded of Anderson Cooper...his Mom for those that don't know, is Gloria Vanderbilt..of THEE Vanderbilts. Andy says that he always knew that he HAD to work. That is simply the work ethic of the family. Contrast an uber-rich 'old money' family with a middle class family telling their high school dropout daughter that she 'wouldn't have to work'! WTH! :waitasec:

THEN, we have another letter (sorry to go OT here) where CA tells the inmate that she is soooooo, sooooo, sooooo proud of her for enjoying her 'paralegal' role that she has assumed and CA tells her that they will send her to LAW SCHOOL when she comes home! OMG! For real??? In the words of a great American, Chris Rock, LAW SCHOOL, 'it's pretty obvious that high school was kicking her a$$'! Three years behind bars and we have heard not a single peep about this inmate even wanting to get a danged GED!

The level of delusion in this family is stunning to me. Sorry for the rant, but everyday for three years, I have said WTF????? :banghead:

No apology needed for your rant. You've made a great point. But let's remember, Casey is a result of her parent's guidence. It was easier for them to turn their head and excuse her instead of helping correct her behavior.
Or, worse yet, they never saw anything amiss about Casey's day to day behavior.
jmo

 

[Justin Tyme]

Would this surprise y'all if I told ya this was on CAs cell phone. Didn't me.

OMG I thought that ICA took it. So, instead of picking Caylee up straight away to love and comfort her it was more important for her to take a pic of her stressing? :banghead:

 

[Justin Tyme]

BBM~

I sort of agree AND disagree with this...LOL. Have you ever read the letters that ICA wrote to her inmate friend? It is a hard read, but veddy, veddy interesting. She tells her inmate buddy that she is now, FINALLY on her own for the first time in her life. Yup...in prison, in solitary, but in her weird mind...she is somehow living INDEPENDENTLY.

I was also taking gas at the letters from her mother, where she says that when she comes home ICA 'won't have to work'! Who in the hell-o raises their kids to think that they shouldn't have to work? I am reminded of Anderson Cooper...his Mom for those that don't know, is Gloria Vanderbilt..of THEE Vanderbilts. Andy says that he always knew that he HAD to work. That is simply the work ethic of the family. Contrast an uber-rich 'old money' family with a middle class family telling their high school dropout daughter that she 'wouldn't have to work'! WTH! :waitasec:

THEN, we have another letter (sorry to go OT here) where CA tells the inmate that she is soooooo, sooooo, sooooo proud of her for enjoying her 'paralegal' role that she has assumed and CA tells her that they will send her to LAW SCHOOL when she comes home! OMG! For real??? In the words of a great American, Chris Rock, LAW SCHOOL, 'it's pretty obvious that high school was kicking her a$$'! Three years behind bars and we have heard not a single peep about this inmate even wanting to get a danged GED!

The level of delusion in this family is stunning to me. Sorry for the rant, but everyday for three years, I have said WTF????? :banghead:

First paragraph = OMG
Second & third paragraph = ICA doesn't have to work because CA is bringing enough $$$ in on disability, due to the stresses of this case...ok...and because she'll be making money working for JB as a paralegal. Hmmm....(wondering how much schooling CA has for this job) and is she getting paid? So if ICA doesn't have to work why would she send her to law school? Sounds like ICA and CA are sitting in JB's hip pocket.

News Flash - Child murderer is released and becomes part of JB's law firm along with her entire family. Could you imagine? Anthony & Beaz law firm. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[kimmera]

No apology needed for your rant. You've made a great point. But let's remember, Casey is a result of her parent's guidence. It was easier for them to turn their head and excuse her instead of helping correct her behavior.
Or, worse yet, they never saw anything amiss about Casey's day to day behavior.
jmo

Thanks..and that brings up the BIG QUESTION. Were they truly so detached and uninvolved that that didn't know what was going on with ICA, or did they KNOW something was very wrong, but turned a blind eye to it?

CA, in her one and only (to my knowledge) Myspace posting, says that there is NO MONEY and NO FUTURE. That indicates to me that she KNEW that ICA was not working at that point.

I personally believe that GA and CA KNEW for a very long time, if not always, that ICA did not have a job. I believe that the whole famdamily walked on eggshells with the sociopath for YEARS. It was easier to just accept what she said as truth rather than actually confront her. From what I have read, this is pretty common in families that have someone with this type of PD.

The other big question for me is...what exactly was ICA doing during those times for TWO YEARS when she was NOT working, and who was caring for Caylee? Will we ever know? :anguish:

 

[pip]

Thanks..and that brings up the BIG QUESTION. Were they truly so detached and uninvolved that that didn't know what was going on with ICA, or did they KNOW something was very wrong, but turned a blind eye to it?

CA, in her one and only (to my knowledge) Myspace posting, says that there is NO MONEY and NO FUTURE. That indicates to me that she KNEW that ICA was not working at that point.

I personally believe that GA and CA KNEW for a very long time, if not always, that ICA did not have a job. I believe that the whole famdamily walked on eggshells with the sociopath for YEARS. It was easier to just accept what she said as truth rather than actually confront her. From what I have read, this is pretty common in families that have someone with this type of PD.

The other big question for me is...what exactly was ICA doing during those times for TWO YEARS when she was NOT working, and who was caring for Caylee? Will we ever know? :anguish:

Me too. But it was a win/win for CA. Penniless, jobless ICA could not move out and take Caylee away from her. That is why CA turned a blind eye. I believe George was forced to keep his mouth shut by CA.. which caused much of the turmoil in their marriage.

 

[marlap]

The following characteristics of a psychopath, defined by Hervery M. Cleckley in 1941 in the book Mask of Sanity include:

1) Superficial charm and average intelligence.
2) Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
3) Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
4) Unreliability.
5) Untruthfulness and insincerity.
6) Lack of remorse or shame.
7) Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
8) Poor judgement and failure to learn from experience.
9) Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
10) General poverty in major affective reactions.
11) Specific loss of insight.
12) Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
13) Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
14) Suicide threats rarely carried out.
15) Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
16) Failure to follow any life plan.
17) Conventional Treatment Empowers

I found number three particularly intersesting after recently rewatching ICA's video interview with Detetective Melich.

I noticed when they offered her something to drink, she said "no thanks." (Seems it would be something to hold...something to do if you're nervous.)

I also watched her legs...no leg shaking or twitching...no foot wiggling...not even when they left her alone at times. I was thinking she'd start humming any minute.

She pulls at her clothing some, but I think that's vanity, not nervousness..wanting to look good in front of the men who were interviewing her.

For as good as Casey was as controlling/manipulating others, she sure wasn't good at reading them IMO. This text exchange with TL shows me clearly he was playing her, doing the stereotypical (excuse my wide brush) guy thing, playing cold then playing "I'll say what she wants to hear" I don't believe he was ever looking at this even close to the way ICA was.

Delusional, hopeful, or just typical (wide brush again) girl buying guy's words hook, line, and sinker?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4770482/IM-History-with-L7Tone

Very interesting! I hadn't read that...I agree that ICA wasn't reading TL very well...But I also think all the affection she "showed" any person was opportunistic.

But I think her relationship with him is covered by number 9and number15 above.

TL was a place to stay and hang away from the fam...she liked the party atmosphere...but she also slept with RM during the time TL was in NT, or do I have the dates wrong...

She was telling GA and CA what great grandparents/ great dad / grandad, etc. was when she still thought they were working on bailing her out.

Acting all besties with Amy so she could have a car, more money to steal, etc...

I definitley think TL did not care as much for her as she THOUGHT he did. I beleive she THOUGHT she made him love her....but also I think that she could have cared less about him (in actual fact)...only for as long as he was useful did she/would she continue to...act that affectionate toward him.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hello - I'm new to posting here, so please bear w/me.

I have often wondered how Casey treated Caylee when they were alone together. I do not believe that Casey physically abused Caylee. However, I do believe there was abuse involved. I suspect she IGNORED little Caylee (psychological abuse). Any thoughts?

:welcome:

 

[BuzzieCat]

For as good as Casey was as controlling/manipulating others, she sure wasn't good at reading them IMO. This text exchange with TL shows me clearly he was playing her, doing the stereotypical (excuse my wide brush) guy thing, playing cold then playing "I'll say what she wants to hear" I don't believe he was ever looking at this even close to the way ICA was.

Delusional, hopeful, or just typical (wide brush again) girl buying guy's words hook, line, and sinker?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4770482/IM-History-with-L7Tone

I agree that Tony just wasn't that into her, but she seemed to think she had him reeled in or would shortly. I guess it got to the point where she needed him to whisk her away, once Caylee was gone.

The following characteristics of a psychopath, defined by Hervery M. Cleckley in 1941 in the book Mask of Sanity include:

1) Superficial charm and average intelligence.
2) Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
3) Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
4) Unreliability.
5) Untruthfulness and insincerity.
6) Lack of remorse or shame.
7) Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
8) Poor judgement and failure to learn from experience.
9) Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
10) General poverty in major affective reactions.
11) Specific loss of insight.
12) Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
13) Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
14) Suicide threats rarely carried out.
15) Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
16) Failure to follow any life plan.
17) Conventional Treatment Empowers

I found number three particularly interesting after recently rewatching ICA's video interview with Detetective Melich.

ITA about #3. She was calm, cool, and collected with the police, even though she knew she had nothing to back up her claims. She fits quite a few of these other points, too, IMO.

 

[Hey boss!]

One of these posts made me think of my "theory of psyche"

Shoplifters supposedly don't get off on the stuff that they take, but on the act of getting away with it.

So my theory is that Casey TOTALLY gets off on the lies she tells, and getting people to believe it. This escalated to where she wasn't getting as much of a thrill, so she took it to the next level. She killed her baby girl then went on like nothing happened. When CA finally finds and confronts her on July 15th, the thrill has worn off a little bit, so she starts in with some more lies. She is getting high off of this and just keeps it going...to her parents, to LE to where she is just out of control because she is just getting so much out of it.

If you look at her face when she is being escorted to jail on the 16th, she just looks euphoric.

She keeps this going throughout the jail visits. When it starts to where off, she writes letters to Robyn Adams with more lies. When that's not available...THATS when she starts to tell DT about abuse, drowning. Who knows what order it came in. She is probably losing that high by now so she may be telling CM some more just to get her MOJO back.

Obviously, just my own little theory, but it explains to me at least why she would do these things when everyone else KNOWs that she couldn't possibly get away with them

 

[Hey boss!]

This photo is so heartbreaking. I want to pick the darling up and comfort her. Another thing that bothers me about this t-shirt is that it was hanging as a memorial or something in Casey's room. It must have some sick significance to her.

I actually have a similar picture of my daughter at 1 year old, sitting on the floor, having a little fit. I took the picture because it was her behavior was so out of proportion to what was happening that we all found it hilarious.

Of course, I never killed my daughter and threw her away, so maybe I'm a little off base.

 

[amickeyfan]

I don't know if this has been posted yet about iCA, but I think she is a Sociopath. If you read these, I think she fits into each of these area's. I cannot say for sure on #11 as to when she started stealing from her family, but it does still fit. The last one is the ultimate! Being a Sociopath doesn't mean you are mentally ill and cannot stand trial either :great: so her defense team cannot try to pull that off. It is not an excuse for committing murder. This is usually the profile of a murderer, even one who had done it "accidentally" then covered it up for 31 days. That is where it comes in.

Profile of the Sociopath


1 .Glibness and Superficial Charm

2 .Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

3. Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

4. Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

5. Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

6. Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

7. Incapacity for Love

8. Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

9. Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

10. Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

11. Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

12. Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

13. Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

14. Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

15. Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

 

[Hey boss!]

Three years behind bars and we have heard not a single peep about this inmate even wanting to get a danged GED!

Oh that is so funny...I totally forgot that she never even got her GED!

 

[Hey boss!]

I don't know if this has been posted yet about iCA, but I think she is a Sociopath. If you read these, I think she fits into each of these area's. I cannot say for sure on #11 as to when she started stealing from her family, but it does still fit.

She stole a check from her brother when she was in highschool. Don't know how early these offenses have to occur, but we know it was at least that early.

 

[txsvicki]

I didn't know that Casey stole a check from Lee when she was in high school, but thought it was after he moved out and was from his roommate. Wow. Does anyone know if George had just started his job the day Caylee went missing or how long he'd been working? During periods that George was out of the home and working or going about his business Casey could have claimed to be paying a sitter while she "worked". That would take quite a bit of money each month and if she had a bank account she could have been telling Cindy that she was saving for college, her own car, or even her own house. If Casey had taken out a credit card in Cindy's name she could have gotten cash and been putting money into a savings account making it look like she was working and being a good saver. I'll bet there was an elaborate tale about her so called earnings and she had something to back it up to fool the family for awhile. Everything else had a big plot even down to fake address books and emails from bosses.

 

[ladylurker]

I actually have a similar picture of my daughter at 1 year old, sitting on the floor, having a little fit. I took the picture because it was her behavior was so out of proportion to what was happening that we all found it hilarious.

Of course, I never killed my daughter and threw her away, so maybe I'm a little off base.

i have a similar picture of my daughter at almost 1 year old, crying and screaming and reaching her arms at me because she wanted the camera. MINUTES BEFORE she had been laughing and playing happily and i wanted to take a video, and SHE wanted the camera, and i did not give it to her, and HOLY TANTRUM. i think this pic, as well as the "snothead" thing, are not completely uncommon things and do not prove her to be a psychopath. i have taken pictures of my kids when crying (usually because they are crying between the time i think "this would make a great picture" and actually focus the camera on them - kids can be moody!) and called them little snots or punks. but then, i also love and respect them, discipline the older one (younger one is too young for discipline) in a gentle and calm manner with words, and care more about my children than i could care about anything else in the world. so maybe it doesn't matter that i have a picture here and there of a tantrum or tell my husband that one of the kids is being a punk-@$$ jerk when they are awake at 10 pm and i am exhausted.....

 

[janine]

If this thread needs to be moved or merged OR deleted, please do so Mods.

I am completely confused by this family's dynamics. Are they WITH each, against each other- partly, fully???? Is it strategy to conflict and cancel each other out? Is Lee really pissed at his mom or is it an act? Did he really mean to insinuate that his mother lied on the stand?
Is he mad at his dad? Is George for or against ICA? Is Lee trying to help a girl who said he was a molester? Is he guilty of something or is he peeved at her for saying it?????

I could go on but am hoping you smarties can clear all this up. Nothing they are saying makes much sense.
George is not going to let JB turn him into a lying, cheating, molesting, pool accident covering-up bad guy (his words, "I'm a nice guy"). Sooooo, if that isn't going to happen, how can this family save the inmate if they are too busy canceling each other out?

:banghead:

 

[txsvicki]

I think some of it's an act because they're trying to prove family dysfunction and nuttiness in Casey. Cindy as the forgetful liar and George making up things to do what he wants. Then Lee as angry, controlling, and confused. The DT team is at the same time trying to show that something is wrong with Casey. Who knows how they are going to pull it all together. Maybe they will say that Lee is the abuser, that it was really a stranger, or just claim that something is bad wrong with Casey to be making up all this stuff. IMO, I believe the final defense tactic will admit that she made all this up, does have dysfunction in the individual family members, and has something very wrong possible due to stranger rape.

 

[marie-chantal]

I am still creeped out/confused by Lee's comments at Caylee's funeral. The "CMA-I love you" and "CMA-I'm so proud of you" is very, very weird and creepy. I don't believe that Casey was molested, but I still find Lee to be very strange. When he made the comments on the stand about how he felt left out when Casey was giving birth, I found myself finding him even more creepy.

But I still don't believe Casey was abused. I just think the family is weird.

 

[Harmony 2]

bumping for discussion after the dynamics we saw in the courtroom today...