The Murder Weapon

[lonetraveler]

me too

I would like to know when Casey told Jose Caylee drowned, or if she did

I made that statement today as well. I suspect that Jose came up with this story himself.

 

[Just Jayla]

The murder weapon was ulitmately self-hate, regret, resentment, selfishness and lust of all sorts. MOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Sophiered]

Sorry I am quoting myself.........but I thought I'd better clear up the wording of my post as not to be misunderstood again..... I made reference to Casey's hands being the Murder weapons, because it's real hard to administer chloroform and apply duct tape to someones mouth without using ones Hands!

Casey would not need her hands to administer the tape and chloroform at the same time. She could have poured the chloroform over the carpet at some other time to get Casey to sleep when she was on a date, then later on, maybe not even the same day used the tape on her face.

 

[Quiche]

A common household product/weapon-- duct tape! :furious:

 

[Flossie JMO]

I made that statement today as well. I suspect that Jose came up with this story himself.

I wondered if he did as well

 

[Amity]

How were the three pieces overlapping. They mentioned that one was taped down past the jaw line, so I am assuming that they were placed at angles to each other to some extent. Do we have a record anywhere of what the widest total width of the three pieces was?

If you watch Mr. Ashton during closing arguments, he uses his own hands to show how the tape was placed.
In fact, when I saw him use his hands as the tape, it gave me pause.
It was then I realized the tape wasn't placed 3-across.

Mr. Ashton shows with his hands that one tape was over the mouth...horizontal.
Second piece of tape was lined up above the first piece.....also horizontal.
Third piece is what made my jaw drop....
Third piece he used his hand and started around his forehead, came down diagonally to the chin.

It was shortly after that, I started to wonder if in fact the tape was put on Precious Caylee after she was dead. And that Casey just used her hands and a plain ol' pillow.
Otherwise, why the diagonal piece of tape.....from right of forehead to left of chin (If I remember correctly-that's why I am trying to search for just that part of closing argument because I don't remember if it was right to left or left to right).

Wish I could find just that part to link here.....I am still searching for it.

 

[suepitzl]

IMO, the duct tape was placed after she was already gone, but before decompositon, who knows what she did/or let happen to her. Could have been she drowned or an OD of Benadryl, chloroform or some other substance.

 

[SATA]

Personally I don´t think the ducttape was the murder weapon. I think Caylee died from an overdose of Chloroform. I think that Casey was in the habit of giving Caylee Zanax (Zannies...) to knock her out so that she could go out and do whatever she wanted. Maybe the tablets were hard to get or too expensive for Casey at some point, so she turned to Chloroform. And it simply went wrong.
I think that Caylee had unusual, dark rings around her eyes for a little kid. That could be explained by her having been drugged on a regular basis. I don´t know where Casey drugged her daughter, whether it was at home or in the back seat or trunk of her car.
I think that the duckttape was placed over Caylee´s mouth and nose after her death because of (sorry for being graphic) body fluids starting to leak from there (the rest of her body would have been covered by her clothes), while she was laying there dead in the trunk of the car.

 

[6stringer]

I dont think the tape was in any particular position when found...months of weathering, scorching sun, water rising, flowing, animals pulling/tugging...I can see where that would be hard for a juror to say for certain that is was a murder weapon. it is possible (not likely) that that mass of tape started out someplace totally different! all of the movement may have placed it in its found position. it is a possibility, and reasonable doubt

 

[shgrbkr]

I experimented with it on myself. 3 pieces of duct tape over my mouth and nose. It didn't really take any time for me to finagle it off with facial movements. And if I did no facial movements if I breathed hard enough an opening between the 3 pieces would happen.

but this is normal duct tape. Idk if Henkel brand is much stronger

Just sharing my experience

If Caylee was unconcious due to chloroform, as I suspect, she would have just laid there. Also, since her hands supposedly weren't duct taped, she must have been unconcious, because she certainly was old enough to try to pull it off.

All duct tape I've ever seen has been wider than two finger widths though.

 

[Amity]

Found it.

In my post # 26 in this topic, I was trying to explain the position of the three pieces of duct tape.

Here it is....Mr. Ashton using his hands to show the placement of the duct tape on Precious Caylee's face when she was found in the swamp.
Starts at time: 6:13 - 6:50
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuNyuow1QIU&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪CASEY ANTHONY CLOSING ARGUMENT PART 7‬‏[/ame]

 

[marie-chantal]

I made that statement today as well. I suspect that Jose came up with this story himself.

I think he did too. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Casey still insists that ZFG did it. I doubt Casey ever did anything except lie to him.

 

[leophoenix]

I dont think the tape was in any particular position when found...months of weathering, scorching sun, water rising, flowing, animals pulling/tugging...I can see where that would be hard for a juror to say for certain that is was a murder weapon. it is possible (not likely) that that mass of tape started out someplace totally different! all of the movement may have placed it in its found position. it is a possibility, and reasonable doubt

Duct tape loses stickiness when wet but, not after it has adhered to something dry. For instance if I tried to stick it to a damp flower pot it would not stick at all. If I stick it to a dry flower pot and give it time to fully adhere and spray it with water it will stay there till it decomposes and falls apart.

If the tape was stuck to dry hair it would never come off of it till it decomposes itself or was pulled off with the hair. If it was stuck to a dry bag (baking in a trunk) it would never come off except if it was torn off with the plastic still stuck under it. If the bag was damp/wet originally the tape would have never stuck to it at all.

It is not possible for duct tape to migrate off a formerly dry object and stick to something else once it has adhered. Duct tape adhesive was also not designed to be stuck on something, removed, stuck somewhere else.

This is one reason I laughed at the drowning theory and the theory that duct tape will stop decomp fluids from leaking. To get the duct tape to stick to her hair the perpetrator would have had to dry her hair off completely to get the duct tape to stick to it. This old henkel tape was not designed to be wet. Around 2010 or so 3m made a duct tape that will adhere to damp products but, as far as I know they are the only manufacturers of it.

It might stop some decomp fluids if put on a dry surface before leakage but, the body leaks in many more places than the mouth .

 

[6stringer]

Duct tape loses stickiness when wet but, not after it has adhered to something dry. For instance if I tried to stick it to a damp flower pot it would not stick at all. If I stick it to a dry flower pot and give it time to fully adhere and spray it with water it will stay there till it decomposes and falls apart.

If the tape was stuck to dry hair it would never come off of it till it decomposes itself or was pulled off with the hair. If it was stuck to a dry bag (baking in a trunk) it would never come off except if it was torn off with the plastic still stuck under it. If the bag was damp/wet originally the tape would have never stuck to it at all.

It is not possible for duct tape to migrate off a formerly dry object and stick to something else once it has adhered. Duct tape adhesive was also not designed to be stuck on something, removed, stuck somewhere else.

This is one reason I laughed at the drowning theory and the theory that duct tape will stop decomp fluids from leaking. To get the duct tape to stick to her hair the perpetrator would have had to dry her hair off completely to get the duct tape to stick to it. This old henkel tape was not designed to be wet. Around 2010 or so 3m made a duct tape that will adhere to damp products but, as far as I know they are the only manufacturers of it.

It might stop some decomp fluids if put on a dry surface before leakage but, the body leaks in many more places than the mouth .

where did you get this info? just curious..I made my statement out of my own experiences. so many needs for the stuff in my life. have used it in about as many ways as you can imagine. it is as miraculous as it is unpredictable lol.

anyways, I am not arguing the states claim (or yours) as to its use here, just saying (from my experience) that I feel it could have migrated there somehow...just a possibility (maybe 1 in a b'jillion)

 

[askfornina]

That fourth piece of tape found around 6 feet from the body, is in a shape that looks a lot like it was around the wrists of Caylee. It would have stopped her pulling the tape from her mouth if her hands were tied behind her back. I don't think she was unconscious when the tape was placed on her mouth and nose, I think she opened her mouth in either a scream or crying, and then Casey needed to add the third piece of tape.

i was under the impression that there was two pieces of tape stuck together and the third was found six feet away.

 

[Starfish]

If you watch Mr. Ashton during closing arguments, he uses his own hands to show how the tape was placed.
In fact, when I saw him use his hands as the tape, it gave me pause.
It was then I realized the tape wasn't placed 3-across.

Mr. Ashton shows with his hands that one tape was over the mouth...horizontal.
Second piece of tape was lined up above the first piece.....also horizontal.
Third piece is what made my jaw drop....
Third piece he used his hand and started around his forehead, came down diagonally to the chin.

It was shortly after that, I started to wonder if in fact the tape was put on Precious Caylee after she was dead. And that Casey just used her hands and a plain ol' pillow.
Otherwise, why the diagonal piece of tape.....from right of forehead to left of chin (If I remember correctly-that's why I am trying to search for just that part of closing argument because I don't remember if it was right to left or left to right).

Wish I could find just that part to link here.....I am still searching for it.

BBM: If you haven't found it yet Amity, try looking in the opening statements, I think that's where I saw it.

 

[GreenEyedGirl]

Duct tape loses stickiness when wet but, not after it has adhered to something dry. For instance if I tried to stick it to a damp flower pot it would not stick at all. If I stick it to a dry flower pot and give it time to fully adhere and spray it with water it will stay there till it decomposes and falls apart.

If the tape was stuck to dry hair it would never come off of it till it decomposes itself or was pulled off with the hair. If it was stuck to a dry bag (baking in a trunk) it would never come off except if it was torn off with the plastic still stuck under it. If the bag was damp/wet originally the tape would have never stuck to it at all.

It is not possible for duct tape to migrate off a formerly dry object and stick to something else once it has adhered. Duct tape adhesive was also not designed to be stuck on something, removed, stuck somewhere else.

This is one reason I laughed at the drowning theory and the theory that duct tape will stop decomp fluids from leaking. To get the duct tape to stick to her hair the perpetrator would have had to dry her hair off completely to get the duct tape to stick to it. This old henkel tape was not designed to be wet. Around 2010 or so 3m made a duct tape that will adhere to damp products but, as far as I know they are the only manufacturers of it.

It might stop some decomp fluids if put on a dry surface before leakage but, the body leaks in many more places than the mouth .

Thank you! You're absolutely right. I believe this was why the mandible was still attached to the skull. (sorry for the graphic nature)
IMO, that duct tape was found where it was placed...around the mouth and nose. Sickening.

 

[Starfish]

Duct tape loses stickiness when wet but, not after it has adhered to something dry. For instance if I tried to stick it to a damp flower pot it would not stick at all. If I stick it to a dry flower pot and give it time to fully adhere and spray it with water it will stay there till it decomposes and falls apart.

If the tape was stuck to dry hair it would never come off of it till it decomposes itself or was pulled off with the hair. If it was stuck to a dry bag (baking in a trunk) it would never come off except if it was torn off with the plastic still stuck under it. If the bag was damp/wet originally the tape would have never stuck to it at all.

It is not possible for duct tape to migrate off a formerly dry object and stick to something else once it has adhered. Duct tape adhesive was also not designed to be stuck on something, removed, stuck somewhere else.

This is one reason I laughed at the drowning theory and the theory that duct tape will stop decomp fluids from leaking. To get the duct tape to stick to her hair the perpetrator would have had to dry her hair off completely to get the duct tape to stick to it. This old henkel tape was not designed to be wet. Around 2010 or so 3m made a duct tape that will adhere to damp products but, as far as I know they are the only manufacturers of it.

It might stop some decomp fluids if put on a dry surface before leakage but, the body leaks in many more places than the mouth .

I hate to admit this, but I've been wondering about the tape stuck to the skull since Spitz testified. If the tape were stuck to the face before decomp, wouldn't it fall off as the body decomposed rather than resticking itself to the bone once the skin disintegrates?

 

[6stringer]

Thank you! You're absolutely right. I believe this was why the mandible was still attached to the skull. (sorry for the graphic nature)
IMO, that duct tape was found where it was placed...around the mouth and nose. Sickening.

apparently that was not proven

 

[GreenEyedGirl]

I hate to admit this, but I've been wondering about the tape stuck to the skull since Spitz testified. If the tape were stuck to the face before decomp, wouldn't it fall off as the body decomposed rather than resticking itself to the bone once the skin disintegrates?

I believe, and I could be wrong, that the tape was actually stuck to the hair, not the skull, so it did slip a little with the skull. Once again, I could be wrong about that.