For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[Controversialist]

How do you prove negligence when you can't prove who? All witnesses stated that she was a great mom. Maybe if the body had been found earlier we would be having a different conversation.

My posture is that ICA violated the terms of Charge Three (culpable negligence) by not calling 911 to report the pool accident.

() ICA was present to make the call.

() ICA was the parent of record.

() ICA was not medically qualified to make final, life or death decisions. That's why paramedics are a phone call away.

Charge Three requires reasonable action to promote a dependent's health and welfare. ICA's inexcusable neglect in failing to call 911 subjected Caylee to a certain death that might have been avoided with expert intervention.

I would like to know the jury's rationale for failing to hold ICA accountable in this regard.

fftobed: :websleuther: hone:

 

[RANCH]

The tape would not have adhered to the bones after decomp, you're right. I am thinking more along the lines that there were no skin cells to show the tape was EVER on the face, and that the tape may have "slipped" onto the face when Mr. Kronk moved the skull. He picked up the skull and maybe the tape moved onto the face, when it had previously been attached to something else...

There was no skin cells or DNA found on the tape because it was out in a swamp for 6 months. If Mr Kronk moved the skull and the tape ended up on Caylees face after being on the bag, why did the ME have to cut the tape away from the hair.

 

[kgeaux]

There was no skin cells or DNA found on the tape because it was out in a swamp for 6 months. If Mr Kronk moved the skull and the tape ended up on Caylees face after being on the bag, why did the ME have to cut the tape away from the hair.

I have heard of other cases where duct tape preserved evidence, even if the body was exposed to the elements, including water. The duct tape in question certainly preserved the DNA of someone other than Casey or Caylee! If an unknown person's DNA could be preserved on that tape, then it is reasonable, IMO, for Caylee's to be preserved also.

 

[RANCH]

I have heard of other cases where duct tape preserved evidence, even if the body was exposed to the elements, including water. The duct tape in question certainly preserved the DNA of someone other than Casey or Caylee! If an unknown person's DNA could be preserved on that tape, then it is reasonable, IMO, for Caylee's to be preserved also.

The DNA found on the tape was contamination from a FBI analyst. Testimony in this case from both the defense and the prosecution showed that 6 months in a Florida swamp is not a good thing for preserving DNA.

 

[Chablis]

The tape would not have adhered to the bones after decomp, you're right. I am thinking more along the lines that there were no skin cells to show the tape was EVER on the face, and that the tape may have "slipped" onto the face when Mr. Kronk moved the skull. He picked up the skull and maybe the tape moved onto the face, when it had previously been attached to something else...

The DNA found on the tape was contamination from a FBI analyst. Testimony in this case from both the defense and the prosecution showed that 6 months in a Florida swamp is not a good thing for preserving DNA.

Maybe not, but they could tell from her hair she wasn't being drugged by anything like Zanex. Not sure if chloroform would show up in hair, but you sure would think so.

 

[AnaTeresa]

My "gut" tells me that Casey is certainly guilty, although I would lean towards something that was not premeditated. I was surprised with the verdict, but I do agree with it. I don't expect CSI-level science, but the circumstantial evidence must be strong.

I think the prosecution overreached, and when faced with the death penalty, the jurors had doubts. Those doubts are going to be stronger when someone's life is at stake. When the state cannot even prove how Caylee died - how can you prove murder? It's a very difficult thing to do. I feel bad for the jurors, because they are getting excoriated, but they did the right thing. The prosecution simply did not built a strong-enough case, and reached for a verdict they couldn't have obtained. If they hadn't tried to play hardball, they may have won a plea or a conviction much sooner.

 

[RANCH]

Maybe not, but they could tell from her hair she wasn't being drugged by anything like Zanex. Not sure if chloroform would show up in hair, but you sure would think so.

Drugs administered immediately before death would be hard to detect in hair and bones you would think.

 

[MargotKidder]

Ouch ... I don't think I am in la la land and these kind of comments are the very reason some people never posted before about this case.

That is why I did not at first. I would read the threads, digest the information and form my own conclusion. I really felt that alot of people who posted on the boards would have really been hard on me had I formed a differing opinion on it because I felt that the threads were largely pro-prosecution and alot of the posters believed that she was guilty from the get-go. In retrospect, I wish that I had posted earlier how I felt, as while some people here would give you a hard time, I did find alot of support for my opinons, even if in the minority. I try to get along with others, even if they do feel the opposite of how I do, but for the most part, the experience was positive. I really like Websleuths though, and I enjoy reading the array of opinions on any given case.

 

[Chablis]

Drugs administered immediately before death would be hard to detect in hair and bones you would think.

Yeah, but why would lazy Casey become a scientist? Why not if you wanted to knock your kid out, spike their food with stuff, or give them night time medicine. It does not fit in Caseys profile. And then, ok, she taped her face up, why? Where the arms also bound together, because you would think the child could rip tape off her face or move it. Nothing points to Casey as being violent.

 

[RANCH]

Yeah, but why would lazy Casey become a scientist? Why not if you wanted to knock your kid out, spike their food with stuff, or give them night time medicine. It does not fit in Caseys profile. And then, ok, she taped her face up, why? Where the arms also bound together, because you would think the child could rip tape off her face or move it. Nothing points to Casey as being violent.

I never thought she made the chloroform.Why it showed up on the family computer and in the trunk, weird, but can't say why. The only reason to tape someones mouth and nose is to kill them. Arms bound? Maybe. An extra piece of tape was found at the remains site.Nothing shows that Casey could not do the things alleged.Did she do all of this? The jury thought not.

 

[Chablis]

I never thought she made the chloroform.Why it showed up on the family computer and in the trunk, weird, but can't say why. The only reason to tape someones mouth and nose is to kill them. Arms bound? Maybe. An extra piece of tape was found at the remains site.Nothing shows that Casey could not do the things alleged.Did she do all of this? The jury thought not.

But seriously though, how can the tape stay on rotted animal picked over flesh, then attach to a skull?

I am a big pool death believer, I saw those cell records, I think they tell the story, and Nancy Grace sensationalized something into something it wasn't.

 

[Littleone48]

My posture is that ICA violated the terms of Charge Three (culpable negligence) by not calling 911 to report the pool accident.

() ICA was present to make the call.

() ICA was the parent of record.

() ICA was not medically qualified to make final, life or death decisions. That's why paramedics are a phone call away.

Charge Three requires reasonable action to promote a dependent's health and welfare. ICA's inexcusable neglect in failing to call 911 subjected Caylee to a certain death that might have been avoided with expert intervention.

I would like to know the jury's rationale for failing to hold ICA accountable in this regard.

fftobed: :websleuther: hone:

IIRC it was the way the charges were written. They couldn't find her guilty of that if they didn't think she murdered her. Not sure but that's what I think

 

[Littleone48]

But seriously though, how can the tape stay on rotted animal picked over flesh, then attach to a skull?

I am a big pool death believer, I saw those cell records, I think they tell the story, and Nancy Grace sensationalized something into something it wasn't.

Don't get me started on NG . I have tried to watch her and JVM, I just can't do it.

BTW OT but does anyone know where this JVM woman came from? She looks like she has lived a very very hard life :innocent:

 

[RANCH]

But seriously though, how can the tape stay on rotted animal picked over flesh, then attach to a skull?

I am a big pool death believer, I saw those cell records, I think they tell the story, and Nancy Grace sensationalized something into something it wasn't.

I don't have clue of what was left of poor Caylees face when she was dumped at that site. So maybe insects finished off what little remained before animals began their thing.Cell phone calls mean what? An accident happened that she and George covered up? Or was she just plain angry with her parents and did something unspeakable? Nancy Grace means nothing to me.

 

[songline]

snipped your post just a little. I agree with everything you've said, especially the part about serving on a jury. It feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders when you are holding another person's freedom/life in your hands.

And Oh, Yes, do we Americans love our rights when we are unjustly accused of something!



Hi, songline!:seeya: I understand what you are saying about the blowflies, but there was no evidence in the trunk, except for one fly leg. It wasn't a matter of there being flies found, but of a generation that wouldn't yield knowledge, there simply weren't any.

I do wish LE had taken possession of the car sooner, too. I wish LE would have walked into the woods instead of reaming out Roy Kronk. I wish Roy Kronk wouldn't have poked the skull, or picked up the bag. I wish LE would have investigated RK thoroughly so that defense could not accuse him of holding Caylee's body for a period of time.




I am honestly not getting the controversy over her statement. OF COURSE they didn't find her innocent! The choices were between guilty and not guilty. And not guilty means exactly what she says; the jurors had reasonable doubt because the prosecution did not PROVE Caylee's death was the result of a murder.




I am just replying to let you know that I am enjoying your posts. You raise some very good points.




Chloroform doesn't deposit in the hair, if I recall correctly.

HI kgeaux:seeya::seeya::seeya:

I totally agree with you, it is the most F'd up case in history.
In short:
LE - worked hard not smart.
GA - worked smart not hard.
CA - the circus woman
KC - Mentally ill
State - produced a fog in court.
JB - was brilliant like Columbo :floorlaugh:
I used to love Columbo

BUT POOR CAYLEE WAS THROWEN IN THE GARBAGE BY HER FAMILY.
What will low lives learn from this case?
Do not report a dead person for a month.
Call it missing person - make up some stories to throw them all off base
Get an EX LE Murder investigator to clean it up - so there is no trace they do know what to look for.
Get a Colombo type person for your case that will shock them in the end.

 

[songline]

One other thing I have a problem with is the 31 days. Everyone is blaming Casey for this however I really have to question why the parents didn't report them missing. IIRC (I really didn't follow the case) her mom said that Casey kept telling her they were here and there BUT wasn't that unlike Casey? She never stayed away from the home for that long of a period did she? I am telling you that if my daughter ever did something like that I would call the police, report my car stolen, my daughter/granddaughter missing, drive around for hours to find her....Maybe I am wrong here but that is one other reason why I think GA is involved. I agree with an accident, I agree with Casey freaking out over it, but who helped her?

Whew did I make any sense? :floorlaugh:

Her Parents lie as much as KC and even better then KC.
Her parents did not call because they had a huge hand in the clean up.
When all the T's were crossed and all the I's were dotted ONLY THEN was the 911 call made.
IMHO they knew at least 2 weeks before the 31 days and that call to LE.

Also:
I could not get my brain wrapped around the fact that CA called 911 told them the car smells like death and they SHOULD HAVE PICKED THAT CAR UP WITHIN 10 MINUTS.

I do not think LE did a good job, they did work hard, but even in court they produced a fog, not a case.

 

[songline]

My posture is that ICA violated the terms of Charge Three (culpable negligence) by not calling 911 to report the pool accident.

() ICA was present to make the call.

() ICA was the parent of record.

() ICA was not medically qualified to make final, life or death decisions. That's why paramedics are a phone call away.

Charge Three requires reasonable action to promote a dependent's health and welfare. ICA's inexcusable neglect in failing to call 911 subjected Caylee to a certain death that might have been avoided with expert intervention.

I would like to know the jury's rationale for failing to hold ICA accountable in this regard.

fftobed: :websleuther: hone:

hhhmmmmm. this is how I see it and I am sticking to it.
You are thinking like a normal functional person.
this is not a normal functional family.
KC called her dad "Ex" LE Murder investigator.
He ran the entire show from then on.
The Clean up,
The misguiding LE, and the search teams.
The hidden body - not thrown away till there was no more flesh on the bones.
Then tossed in the garbage when there was no more evidence there.
GA makes me sick.
And I think GA makes cindys family sick too from all I have read.

I think CA will be leaving him. Not that she is a prize package :floorlaugh:

 

[songline]

I just wonder if/when the jurors hear all the information that was not allowed to be brought into court, like the fight the night Caylee was last seen, and the million of other things, if at that time they will change their minds. I just can't wrap my head around why evidence is not allowed in at times, to me if it was done during the time of the crime, it just has to be let in. If we are to judge fairly then we need to know all the facts. I don't think I will ever understand any of the jurors point of view on their decisions. It is amazing that out of thousands of people that believe she is guilty, that 12 people all say NOT guilty, not one of them stood up to say not guilty, that is what is so hard for me.

Not going to change what the state presented or did not have to present.

They were GREEDY - they went for all or nothing. Just like some people here who hung her from day one.
I thing Criminal Negligence would have been a slam-dunk.
I also think it was an accident that Daddy cleaned up.
But instead of getting her on Criminal Negligence and then adding on other things that they CAN win.
They went for murder, but had nothing in hand.
NO, I do not belive that KC murdered anyone.
MO

 

[dodie20]

I don't necessarily agree with the verdict, but I have to admit, I understand where the jurors are coming from. If the state wanted me to sentence someone for murder which icluded the death penalty or a long prison stay, they'd have to answer some basic questions that just weren't answered in this trial. I'd want to know how, (with proof) and why. Even if the state wasn't legally obligated to answer those questions, I'd still have to know before I could send somebody to his/her death. IMO, this was not a death penalty case...too many unanswered questions. I've never kept up with a trial before this and I was shocked that the defense was allowed to throw out some of the accusations they did. And without backing them up! I didn't know whether to believe them or not, and really, I couldn't figure out what some of it had to do with this case, even if it was true. But it seems the jury bought it all. Also, I think a lot of the state's case-a build up with the false kidnapping accusations-was completely lost when CA changed her story to accident and cover-up. All of those early lies were central to this case, but they had lost their impact. They were explained away and the jury blamed them on family dysfunction. I couldn't believe she had the nerve to change her story, but that change is what saved her. If the state had been allowed to present the case as it had originally unfolded, I think things would have turned out differently. maybe not the death penalty, but guilty to some degree. MOO

 

[Chablis]

I don't have clue of what was left of poor Caylees face when she was dumped at that site. So maybe insects finished off what little remained before animals began their thing.Cell phone calls mean what? An accident happened that she and George covered up? Or was she just plain angry with her parents and did something unspeakable? Nancy Grace means nothing to me.

I look at those records,and see Caseys pattern of constantly being on her phone. Now, there is an hour of inactivity, which is rare for her. Why is it so hard to believe she napped, after being up for a long time, and Caylee got into the pool? That hour of inactivity is then followed by calls to George and Cindy, repeatedly, then they are done, and Casey is gone for 31 days. I mean, how can anyone overlook that as nothing? I cant. Ya know, finding your child dead is pretty traumatic, and she was Caseys child. Combined with her family dynamics, her not supposed to be home and not getting ahold of Cindy, I can see how someone can act pretty weird, especially her.

Why more people aren't paying attention to these records is beyond me.