For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[liltexans]

I invite you to read my post history. My opinion had nothing to do with the winning team or I would have never posted this and often I am left defending my post repeatedly ,even being asked often "are we watching the same trial" . Sometimes people only see what they want to. Alot of posters saw this coming.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6846850&postcount=118

No need to get snippy, Soulmagnet. I was not directing anything at you personally. I'm well aware of your post history and I know you are not a flip-flopper on this issue.

Doesn't anyone watch or listen to the news? I wasn't talking about WSers!

 

[Controversialist]

I agree with you and I think you prove further though that questioning the motivation and sincerity of jurors is way over the top in being judgmental. The behavior of the jury is not unusual, it's just not what people expected, given the literal years of hype about "tot mom."

I agree that pinpointing someone's motive can be a tricky assignment. This happens in federal Justice Department investigations of wrongful employment termination cases.

The terminated employee must prove that the firing was based on certain, specified motives, such as race, gender, etc. It is exceedingly difficult to prove an internal motive for a firing without a "smoking gun" like a taped confession.

My concern with the ICA jury is not their motive, but with their analytical approach. On what analytical basis did the jurors decide not to hold ICA accountable for child neglect (Charge Three)?

Jurors could have the purest motives in the world and make a conceptual mistake on the logic of the charges.

:guitar: hoh: :bricks:

 

[MarthaM]

My post was not directed at anyone on this forum. Read it a little more closely please.

Thank you.

Doesn't anyone watch or listen to the news? I wasn't talking about WSers!

I think if you reread your previous post you'll see why it wasn't clear to us who you were referring to--especially on a thread titled as this one is. Quite a few people have posted here that they aren't in the anti-jury crowd, so what were we to think?

 

[dodie20]

I invite you to read my post history. My opinion had nothing to do with the winning team or I would have never posted this and often I am left defending my post repeatedly ,even being asked often "are we watching the same trial" . Sometimes people only see what they want to. Alot of posters saw this coming.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6846850&postcount=118

I don't know if I saw it coming, but I wasn't surprised. Unlike a lot of people, I don't feel any animosity towards JB. I think he worked his behind off in this case and he did the better job of exploiting the other side's weanesses. I really wish there wasn't so much hate directed towards him. All of this negativity isn't good for the soul...and usually, the people it's directed towards, (especially successful people like JB), find ways to thrive on it. It makes them stronger. kind of like the sayings...when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. and...what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. MOO.

 

[liltexans]

I think if you reread your previous post you'll see why it wasn't clear to us who you were referring to--especially on a thread titled as this one is. Quite a few people have posted here that they aren't in the ant-jury crowd, so what were we to think?

I'm sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the legal analysts and talking heads in the media. Although now that I think about it, one of those people is a WSer.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine should be respected as well.

 

[Controversialist]

The strolling nights spent thru Blockbuster(less than 24 hours after murdering Caylee).. Nor strolling any night anywhere for 31 days prove nothing more than a sociopath benefitting from NOT *having the snotty brat around(as Casey referred to her)having murdered her daughter out of resentment, anger and revenge on her mom, Cindy for daring to have the cajones for once to truly let Casey have it! For her lying, thieving ways.. on the night of the 15th Cindy for once let Casey know exactly what she was.. A lying thief!!!*

The motive wasn't to have a carefree life partying.. She did that without killing Caylee.. She did that by lying and conniving her parents amd others to babysit..

The reason and motive for murdering Caylee has been clearly told detail for detail in this thread.. It didn't have a damn thing to do with 31 days of nothing..

It only had everything to do with revenge on her mother! That is it!!*

Cindys guilt and shame for her having those cajones that night ti stand up to Casey thT she full well knows led to the revenge of Caylee being murdered is what kept the entire basis of the murder hid from the State..

State can't prosecute based on a fabrication that they were not aware was a fabrication..*

The state did their job and the only person to blame for Caylee's death is her very own mother..

Broken record.. Over and over.. Anyone who truly knows this case from the beginning knows fact is revenge was the motive and fiction is what was lied to the states Attys..

If you know every end and out of the case then u know what's the truth.. If some don't, then us who do repeating is going to help anyone learn.. The truth and the evidence there and many many many know it.. A very large percentage does..

I tend to agree that ICA's motive to eliminate Caylee could well have been as a retaliation of some kind toward CA. (Granted, as I just wrote on another post, pinpointing motives can be very challenging). But I think your case for ICA's motive can plausibly be made (recalling that the State was not required to prove motive).

What amazes me is that JB, on Day One of the trial, says in effect:

"Okay boys and girls, you know that little story ICA told the world for three years---the one that knowingly cost other people a fortune in money and time---well, that was just a friendly little joke. She was just pulling your leg."

"So let's just forget that three year lie as a fun little amusement among friends. True, ICA lied through her teeth to LE repeatedly about life and death matters, but, she woke up this morning and decided, 'What the heck, I might as well try this curious practice people call 'honesty.'"

"So my friends on the jury, we now ask you to believe ICA's first experiment at truthful testimony in the past three years, and we ask that you ignore the fact that she has no particular reason for this sudden attack of candor."

"Thankfully, the grip of GA's past abuse, which had forced ICA into lying her entire life, magically disappeared about 24 hours ago. This is a good thing, because my entire, upcoming case will be dependent on ICA's word."


:banghead: :waitasec: :truce:

 

[MarthaM]

My concern with the ICA jury is not their motive, but with their analytical approach. On what analytical basis did the jurors decide not to hold ICA accountable for child neglect (Charge Three)?

I don't remember which juror(s) said it, but even on that charge they couldn't even pin anything on Casey based on the prosecution's evidence. Even if they felt it was an accidental death, they still weren't given anything to say who was taking care of Caylee when it happened. So it all still comes down to not having enough proof to convict someone.

 

[liltexans]

The mistakes I see were not made by the prosecution, but by LE early on in this case.

Why didn't LE do a thorough search of at least a 2 mile radius from every direction of the Anthony's home as soon as they were informed by Cindy of Caylee's disappearance? Caylee's address of record was the Anthony's home and the homes and land surrounding that home should have been thoroughly searched. I don't care how much standing water was in the way. This was a missing toddler.

Also, why did LE feel the need to arrest Casey for murder 3 months before Caylee was even found? They had enough evidence to indict her, but they didn't need to act on it. It was pretty obvious that Casey wasn't going to provide any useful information about Caylee's location whether Casey was incarcerated or not. Why not just let her remain free and legally tap her phones and surveil her for a while? I think they very likely would have found much more evidence if either of these things had happened.

The jury was working with a "dry bones" case as the DA stated. All traces of DNA and fingerprints were long gone by the time Caylee was found. Her flesh was eaten by animals and her bones were scattered.

This particular jury wanted or needed evidence that might have been available if LE had acted differently in the beginning.

 

[Peepers]

I don't know if I saw it coming, but I wasn't surprised. Unlike a lot of people, I don't feel any animosity towards JB. I think he worked his behind off in this case and he did the better job of exploiting the other side's weanesses. I really wish there wasn't so much hate directed towards him. All of this negativity isn't good for the soul...and usually, the people it's directed towards, (especially successful people like JB), find ways to thrive on it. It makes them stronger. kind of like the sayings...when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. and...what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. MOO.

That is a perfect way to describe it dodie..JB did exploit the states weaknesses. Its not so much that JB won as much as State lost it. I dont blame JB, he got the case of a lifetime and took it. And I totally agree with you on the decision, I wasnt as surprised as some here, I felt not connecting the actual manner of death or day of death to KC was huge in a trial. I dont like it that KC got away with murder ( I believe she did), but I dont blame the jury. Its the luck of the draw with a jury and here it is. I have no words to describe how disgusting I think it is that people are hounding and badgering the jury, and calling them stupid and lazy.

 

[Peepers]

The mistakes I see were not made by the prosecution, but by LE early on in this case.

Why didn't LE do a thorough search of at least a 2 mile radius from every direction of the Anthony's home as soon as they were informed by Cindy of Caylee's disappearance? Caylee's address of record was the Anthony's home and the homes and land surrounding that home should have been thoroughly searched. I don't care how much standing water was in the way. This was a missing toddler.

Also, why did LE feel the need to arrest Casey for murder 3 months before Caylee was even found? They had enough evidence to indict her, but they didn't need to act on it. It was pretty obvious that Casey wasn't going to provide any useful information about Caylee's location whether Casey was incarcerated or not. Why not just let her remain free and legally tap her phones and surveil her for a while? I think they very likely would have found much more evidence if either of these things had happened.

The jury was working with a "dry bones" case as the DA stated. All traces of DNA and fingerprints were long gone by the time Caylee was found. Her flesh was eaten by animals and her bones were scattered.

This particular jury wanted or needed evidence that might have been available if LE had acted differently in the beginning.

ITA, LE failed in the ways you mentioned above and also in not making any real effort to find Caylee after Kronk reported it.

 

[PeteyGirl]

(snipped)

My concern with the ICA jury is not their motive, but with their analytical approach. On what analytical basis did the jurors decide not to hold ICA accountable for child neglect (Charge Three)?

Jurors could have the purest motives in the world and make a conceptual mistake on the logic of the charges.

:guitar: hoh: :bricks:

Exactly!

As to the "analytical basis" of not holding ICA accountable for neglect, we have juror #3 stating that it was not made clear by the evidence WHO was responsible for caring for Caylee at the time of her death.

I don't believe the jurors spent 9 and a half hours reviewing their media packets before delivering the verdict. I think they spent 9 and a half hours convincing the hold-outs that since there was no evidence of CAUSE there was no case. Their train derailed on the Logic Line, but IMHO, the jury's intent was not as dastardly as some accuse.

Doesn't mean they didn't blow it, big time. They did, and they'll know it.

 

[songline]

And I am going to stick my neck out and say that I hope that Casey Anthony can get help to grieve properly for her daughter and what has happened to her life.
I honestly wish her well and hope that she can make a life for herself and do some good while she is at it.

Nancy Grace and her ilk should be ashamed of themselves

I would not go that far. KC is not innocent but she is not a murderer.
I think she is Mentally Ill and needs help.
I think her family did not do the right thing from the start.
I think the real story is much darker then we are permitted to discuss.
As for NG show - I have not watched it in 2 1/2 years she is a pit bull.

 

[songline]

ITA, LE failed in the ways you mentioned above and also in not making any real effort to find Caylee after Kronk reported it.

To me it looks like even LE was afraid of the Dark side of the real story.

 

[Controversialist]

The mistakes I see were not made by the prosecution, but by LE early on in this case.

Why didn't LE do a thorough search of at least a 2 mile radius from every direction of the Anthony's home as soon as they were informed by Cindy of Caylee's disappearance? Caylee's address of record was the Anthony's home and the homes and land surrounding that home should have been thoroughly searched. I don't care how much standing water was in the way. This was a missing toddler.

Also, why did LE feel the need to arrest Casey for murder 3 months before Caylee was even found? They had enough evidence to indict her, but they didn't need to act on it. It was pretty obvious that Casey wasn't going to provide any useful information about Caylee's location whether Casey was incarcerated or not. Why not just let her remain free and legally tap her phones and surveil her for a while? I think they very likely would have found much more evidence if either of these things had happened.

The jury was working with a "dry bones" case as the DA stated. All traces of DNA and fingerprints were long gone by the time Caylee was found. Her flesh was eaten by animals and her bones were scattered.

This particular jury wanted or needed evidence that might have been available if LE had acted differently in the beginning.

IMO you are making fair points here. I'm of the impression that equipment exists to quickly pump large amounts of standing water from a site. I'm surprised that the discovery site was not pumped out, assuming that wouldn't destroy evidence.

I've also wondered why the October 08 indictment had already declared a premeditated murder, without a recovered body. Without a body, how could it be known that anyone had committed a murder? In theory, Caylee could still have been alive in Tahiti.

The Grand Jury must have felt quite strongly on the forensics at this early stage. This is why I expected an eventual conviction once the body was actually found.

:waitasec::waitasec:

 

[songline]

I agree that pinpointing someone's motive can be a tricky assignment. This happens in federal Justice Department investigations of wrongful employment termination cases.

The terminated employee must prove that the firing was based on certain, specified motives, such as race, gender, etc. It is exceedingly difficult to prove an internal motive for a firing without a "smoking gun" like a taped confession.

My concern with the ICA jury is not their motive, but with their analytical approach. On what analytical basis did the jurors decide not to hold ICA accountable for child neglect (Charge Three)?

Jurors could have the purest motives in the world and make a conceptual mistake on the logic of the charges.

:guitar: hoh: :bricks:

Based on what the jury got from the state to work with - they did a good job.
It is the state that created a FOG nothing was clear; the prosecution never told them anything that would help to convict KC of anything. When or where did Caylee die? How did Caylee die? No finger prints no lied with DNA nothing to prove anything....the created FOG even I who knows the case knew that the state had nothing much to work with and should NOT go for all or nothing. The fact that they did it that way has me asking the questions I asked 3 years ago. WHY is George afraid of the Mafia? Why was Caylee with KC at all when KC left home? She could have come back for her. BUT CAYLEE STARTED TO TALK. So yes, I have many questions - but none of them are being discussed. This case took a real U turn. I do not belive that GA harmed the girls sexually. However, I do believe that they all met very unscrupulous people through GA. That is why GA had to help her clean up and cover up. I also believe that her attorney came through these unscrupulous people and they knew very well that he plays Colombo and will deliver the verdict they wanted.

 

[Controversialist]

Exactly!

As to the "analytical basis" of not holding ICA accountable for neglect, we have juror #3 stating that it was not made clear by the evidence WHO was responsible for caring for Caylee at the time of her death.

I don't believe the jurors spent 9 and a half hours reviewing their media packets before delivering the verdict. I think they spent 9 and a half hours convincing the hold-outs that since there was no evidence of CAUSE there was no case. Their train derailed on the Logic Line, but IMHO, the jury's intent was not as dastardly as some accuse.

Doesn't mean they didn't blow it, big time. They did, and they'll know it.

You have, in my view, said it well and with insight. I'm puzzled by this question of who was in charge of Caylee during the "pool accident."

ICA's neglect also comes in after ICA discovers Caylee, not just before.

If I discover my toddler collapsed in someone arms, I don't care what they say, I call 911 immediately, just in case my treasured child can be rescued from the brink.

I must have missed the memo where ICA graduated from medical school, and became qualified to assess Caylee's exact medical condition. When she first discovered Caylee (in the defense narrative) instead of summoning qualified help, she apparently thought,

"I could call that 911 service, but, I don't know, Caylee looks like she's already just about had it. And I don't want to bother those paramedic responder people for nothing. That's okay, I'm good. I'm kind of in a hurry anyway. Can I get those car keys from you, George, I'm heading over to Blockbuster with Tony a bit later."

Or something to that effect.


:banghead: :nono: :read:

 

[Boytwnmom]

there was just as much evidence that SP was a good husband, that he cheated and had done so before and not killed her, but he loved Laci and was excited about Connor. He never even told the girlfriend whose name I forget that he loved her. Why did he have to kill his wife. People cheat all the time.

Casey lived a lie that involved her non-verbal daughter who was now starting to speak and she had a new bf who didn't allow her to sleep over with her child. She obviously wanted to live with Tony as she basically moved in and played wife. Caylee was going to start talking a blue streak and so no more fake job and nanny and whatever other lies she told. Plus, Caylee was getting all the attention and Cindy was pressuring Casey to be a better mother. But she couldn't be-she didn't have a job, an apartment, nothing.

I honestly don't see any more motive for SP than for ICA. Plus, motive is not required anyway.

Dan Abrams was just on Joy Behar saying that in the SP case, we didn't know how LP died, but we knew why. Whereas in the Anthony case, we didn't know how and the "why" ("KC wanted more time to party") seemed really vague.

I think he has a point.

(ETA Abrams (and I) think KC was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. He was just pointing out why the Peterson case was different.)

 

[Littleone48]

I invite you to read my post history. My opinion had nothing to do with the winning team or I would have never posted this and often I am left defending my post repeatedly ,even being asked often "are we watching the same trial" . Sometimes people only see what they want to. Alot of posters saw this coming.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6846850&postcount=118

Speaking of "watching the same trial" When this trial started I was trying to follow the trial here however it seemed that JA was wearing wings and JB was wearing horns. I went out onto the internet to see if I could find a Casey is innocent group. I did and I joined just to get a different outlook on the trial. I have to say that in that group it was just the opposite.

I knew nothing of this case before the trial so it was amusing to me to read in the 2 different groups. Trust me I thought both groups were watching a different trial. Bottom line is that once everyone in each group formed their opinion there was nothing that was going to change it. Both groups went into this trial with a closed mind and nothing was going to change it.

 

[2door73chevy]

something like this

http://www.perfectmemorials.com/cremation-jewelry/

I've never heard of this type of thing before...Is this a normal/popular thing to do? I'm not sure how I feel about jewelry being made out of a loved one..Hmmm.

 

[Soulmagent]

Speaking of "watching the same trial" When this trial started I was trying to follow the trial here however it seemed that JA was wearing wings and JB was wearing horns. I went out onto the internet to see if I could find a Casey is innocent group. I did and I joined just to get a different outlook on the trial. I have to say that in that group it was just the opposite.

I knew nothing of this case before the trial so it was amusing to me to read in the 2 different groups. Trust me I thought both groups were watching a different trial. Bottom line is that once everyone in each group formed their opinion there was nothing that was going to change it. Both groups went into this trial with a closed mind and nothing was going to change it.

I would have never thought to look for a Casey is innocent group.

Picturing JB with wings is a bit amusing as well.

All I really wanted from the trial was the truth,because really I have no clue what happened to Caylee. I just pray one day we will truely know what happen to Caylee and the real reason she was hidden in the woods.