2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

[katydid23]

Did she steal from Caylee Anthony during the course of her life time? I think I heard some story that she stole from her piggy bank, I don't know if this was true but there was no record evidence of it. If there was evidence of it and the prosecution wanted in on record they should have elicited the evidence.
As to the issue of her not having a job, well at 9.2% unemployment in the U.S. if that was a form of Child Abuse, DCFS, LE and the courts are going to be busy.
She lied? Erm... well you get my point, that's not child abuse. Especially if it did not affect her child in any negative and significant way. TBH, it's just fanciful to suggest that amounts to child abuse.=========================================

Well, as I explained. IT DID affect her child in a very negative way. Casey was eventually arrested and convicted of 6 felonies. If she did not have her parents support she might have lost custody temporarily---IF the child hadnt been thrown in the swamp already.




Most of this is just simply a one-sided account of key evidence. Children co-sleep; =====================================

NO, they DO NOT 'CO -SLEEP' with boyfriends mommy has known for a month or so. NO, that is NOT the family bed. Our kids co-slept ---with MOM and DAD. Not with some guy I was banging that month.




taking her Caylee out and about whilst George and Cindy thought she was at work is not child abuse; college parties, etc are not the most conducive environment for a child but i have certainly heard of and seen worse, there is no evidence that the child was at rowdy frat parties til the wee hours; children do sometimes answer the door, try and get out on the balcony when they are not meant to, you can never be too careful.========================================

But casey was in the bedroom with the door closed having sex while her 2 and a half yr old was roaming the apt without supervision. HOW is that being careful?
And there were reports of her taking her to very late night rowdy parties.



Is there any evidence that KC attacked Caylee? No. Used a belt on her? No. Tried to poison her? No. Torture? No. Witheld food and water? No.

The view that she was a good mother, at least based upon the record evidence at trial, has merit.===============================

This is NOT a case about her being hit or physically abused. This is a case about a sociopath, a narcissistic sociopath, who had no more use for her kid and who was very angry at her parents for wanting to take custody of her. And the worst part was that mom wanted the baby and NOT Casey. That put Casey into a spiteful rage. So it was not a regular child abuse case. Just the case of a cold blooded, lying thief who was ready to hurt her mother in the most spiteful evil way ever.

As for witholding food and water---no, except she never bought her kid food or water either. She got it all from her folks. She provided Caylee nothing other than the simplest babysitting duties. But if you look at the computer and cell records you will see that she spent 90% of her time texting and Myspacing, and not interacting with Caylee.

She did not make friends of other single moms and share play dates or stories about her child. She developed a new life with college kids who ran and promoted night clubs. That is where her head was at.


See above. I would just add that even if KC took Caylee to parties and had her sleep in a bedroom while the party was ongoing would not amount to child abuse. It is not something that I would see is all that uncommon amongst single young mothers. ===========================

TRUE. IF she had a job or went to school and gave the child some normal life as a kid to balance it out. BUT she did not do that. It was ALL about Casey and her life the way she wanted it.

I am not saying I condone it but just because Casey was not married to Caylee's father, chaste until her wedding, going to church every Sunday, in bed at 10PM everynight, had dinner on the table every day at 5PM, etc does not mean she was a bad mother or guilty of child abuse or child neglect.
=============================================

I NEVER said she had to be chaste or go to church every day. BUT come on, don't be so obtuse. She was LIVING A LIE. She lied to everyone and anyone about her ENTIRE life. She was stealing from her invalid grandfathers nursing home account. How could that possibly be healthy for a child. And Caylee was beginning to speak in paragraphs. Casey lied to everyone every day. How was that supposed to work out once Caylee began to understand and overhear her mom.
How was the nanny today Caylee? HUH?


Casey was a TERRIBLE mother. There is no way you can pretend that her lying, stealing and betraying everyone around her can make her a decent mother in any way.

 

[laserdisc10]

But using chloroform OR duct tape on a three year old child, dead or alive, makes perfect sense?

Gawd, these people:banghead:

To be suspected is that the jury didn't believe/accept that the accused could or would make chloroform (they would have asked themselves if they would be able to make it or bother with the time and effort to do so, when so many other means (such as over the counter drugs) could far more easily be administered)

Next - to be suspected is that they believed the duct tape was circumstantial and possibly just debris from the trash site which had affixed itself to the remains

They may also have suspected that the chloroform was sprinkled around the car trunk by someone else in an attempt to hide the decomposition odour and/or to eliminate flies. To be suspected is that the jury believed a 'mystery killer' or two were involved - meaning justification for 'reasonable doubt'

Generally, people use themselves as a benchmark when judging others. If jury members would not research and make chloroform, for example, they would have a difficult time believing anyone else would do so

but who knows

 

[Ms.Heather]

I don't know if this has been posted. You can watch this online
[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/vp/43691488#43691488"]Dateline NBC: News stories about crime, celebrity and health[/ame]

 

[mitzi]

Speaking of this why didn't the State show how upset KC was that she didn't get to go to Puerto Rico with her friends? I think that is one area they messed up with was not showing more dysfunction in the family, that Cindy was always after KC to watch her own child, that she wanted to go with her friends but Cindy wouldn't let her. This jury didn't have the brains to figure out scientific stuff so you needed more usual human drama to show them what was going on.

Ya know, we can't second guess what the state should have done, now that we know what these <unusual jurors> were looking for. We all saw the trial. Didn't we all (or most of us) think that the state showed KC's guilt, whether some of us thought 1st degree, or some thought manslaughter, or somewhere in between?

The state presented a great case, had great opening and closing statements...this jury decided this case right at the start with Jose's opening statement, and paid no more attention to anything the state had to say after that.

What I have trouble understanding, is that the jury didn't find JB smarmy with his constant, 'may it please the court'...'good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury' , 'aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddd', and his constant smirk. What planet are they from!!!???!!! :waitasec:

 

[laserdisc10]

Wouldn't surprise me if one of the networks gathered the jury members and replayed elements of the SA's and DT's presentations

then stopped the tape at crucial junctures and asked jury members to individually explain what they'd drawn from the evidence to that point

If no network has plans to do so, it might be a good idea if they did, imo

 

[Etiana]

This whole thing is a NIGHTMARE! :banghead: I find myself wanting to scream every time I hear one of the jurors or alternate jurors speak! Were they watching the same trial as the rest of us??? I just can't wrap my head around this. I can remember thinking every time Baez got up there and addressed the jury all swarmy like that the jurors saw right through him. Apparently not

I sincerely do not understand how this happened, it's the worst outcome.

 

[Whisperer]

When is the next group of jurors coming out? Or are they busy hiring attorneys?

 

[katydid23]

katydid,
All this makes me feel like I live in an alternate universe.:banghead: The facts show --as you said-- that Casey was a terrible mother. The invisa nanny, the invisa job, all the times Casey partied and CA and GA thought Casey had babysitter? That in and of itself goes to show neglect.

Casey's lies to LE after she lied and lied and lied and (you get the picture), about her job at Universal.....Those LE Officers knew Casey was lying and had done something to her daughter. The jurors heard that testimony yet let Casey walk. :banghead:

Two of the jurors I saw on Dateline had no kids and the 3rd, I am not sure about. But I guess they do not understand what life is like for a 2 yr old. They need a regular place to eat and sleep and a regular routine. They need to play in the park with other kids and have a HONEST , SAFE environment. Casey lived her life on the edge. At any moment the entire house of cards could come crashing down on her. Her lies about Universal and her double major in college and her wealthy boyfriend with a kid named Zach...Her forged checks and stolen cash...Her looking for apartments...it was all
balancing on the head of a pin. And she dragged Caylee around in the middle of all that. And yet these 3 jurors could sit and say ' she was a good mother."

 

[mitzi]

Correct.

I am pretty sure that regardless of the truth of the matter, the prosecution did not have witnesses to show a history of neglect or child abuse in order to rebut the Defense's assertion of Casey being a bad mother.

My view, is that is likely that Casey "loved" her daughter, she dotted on her but that she was immature, irresponsible with a lack of foresight and did not understand the responsibility she had as a mother.

Bold mine.

Respectfully, KC did not dote for one minute on her daughter...if she doted on anything, it was her texting, IM-ing, Face-booking, MySpace-ing, Emailing, Cell-phoning. KC couldn't even be bothered to 'talk' to Caylee when she was shooting videos of her. What kind of doting mother can't even say "Hey Caylee, smile for mama" or "Wave at the camera, Caylee".

KC hated Caylee...Caylee had replaced her as 'Princess'. So getting rid of her was two-fold...KC back as 'Princess', and stuck it to Cindy by murdering Caylee.

 

[MissJames]

JMO, but ,the reason there is no evidence that Casey was a bad mother is because she was never required to be "the mother". Cindy and George provided everything ,EVERYTHING,for Caylee. We saw some pictures of Casey playing or mugging for a shot with Caylee, but all the pictures with Cindy were of her actually doing something with Caylee.She helped up the stairs to the pool and got to swim with her. The video of Caylee's 2nd birthday,it's Cindy who keeps chasing after Caylee while Casey sits in a chair laughing.
And the texting! went on for the majority of the day and night.When did she do anything with Caylee.? How did she find the time if she was texting constantly?
Maybe there were no red flags of Casey being an abusive mom,but she wasn't really acting like a mom at all.

 

[Etiana]

Ya know, we can't second guess what the state should have done, now that we know what these <unusual jurors> were looking for. We all saw the trial. Didn't we all (or most of us) think that the state showed KC's guilt, whether some of us thought 1st degree, or some thought manslaughter, or somewhere in between?

The state presented a great case, had great opening and closing statements...this jury decided this case right at the start with Jose's opening statement, and paid no more attention to anything the state had to say after that.

What I have trouble understanding, is that the jury didn't find JB smarmy with his constant, 'may it please the court'...'good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury' , 'aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddd', and his constant smirk. What planet are they from!!!???!!! :waitasec:

Ya, I just posted this same comment almost to the exact words, we must have been posting at the same time. I don't get it either mitzi, I really don't. I read somewhere in this mess that the jury thought JA and LDB were cold towards them. Again I want to scream!!!

 

[com n sense]

Speaking of this why didn't the State show how upset KC was that she didn't get to go to Puerto Rico with her friends? I think that is one area they messed up with was not showing more dysfunction in the family, that Cindy was always after KC to watch her own child, that she wanted to go with her friends but Cindy wouldn't let her. This jury didn't have the brains to figure out scientific stuff so you needed more usual human drama to show them what was going on.

I sadly don't think anything the state did during trial would have produced a different outcome.
Juror # 3 stated that she didn't think it was right that the jurors were suppose to connect the dots by themselves.
Was she taking a bathroom break when Linda & Jeff connected the dots for them during closing statement?
It's alsmost like they sat in at another trial.
Oh wait they did.....Baez's fairytail trial.

 

[Kimster]

I felt it was a good show. I don't feel any better about the outcome of this trial, but at least I know more about what the jurors might have been thinking.

So, of the dozens of "whys" screaming in my head, one of them went away I suppose.

:sigh:

 

[robmom]

To be suspected is that the jury didn't believe/accept that the accused could or would make chloroform (they would have asked themselves if they would be able to make it or bother with the time and effort to do so, when so many other means (such as over the counter drugs) could far more easily be administered)

Next - to be suspected is that they believed the duct tape was circumstantial and possibly just debris from the trash site which had affixed itself to the remains

They may also have suspected that the chloroform was sprinkled around the car trunk by someone else in an attempt to hide the decomposition odour and/or to eliminate flies. To be suspected is that the jury believed a 'mystery killer' or two were involved - meaning justification for 'reasonable doubt'

Generally, people use themselves as a benchmark when judging others. If jury members would not research and make chloroform, for example, they would have a difficult time believing anyone else would do so

but who knows

That's all very true. I know I couldn't make chloroform. Well, I haven't looked it up yet, but I"m guessing I couldn't. I suppose I could try to buy it somewhere if I wanted it. Yet other people have said it's kind of easy to make. But anway...

I was more stunned by his comment about using both, like why wouldn't you just use one or the other? That's the way I took it when he said it.

These people are making me insane:crazy: I need to stop listening to them.

 

[LancelotLink]

So MUCH evidence...so little time.

 

[katydid23]

Ya know, we can't second guess what the state should have done, now that we know what these <unusual jurors> were looking for. We all saw the trial. Didn't we all (or most of us) think that the state showed KC's guilt, whether some of us thought 1st degree, or some thought manslaughter, or somewhere in between?

The state presented a great case, had great opening and closing statements...this jury decided this case right at the start with Jose's opening statement, and paid no more attention to anything the state had to say after that.

What I have trouble understanding, is that the jury didn't find JB smarmy with his constant, 'may it please the court'...'good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury' , 'aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddd', and his constant smirk. What planet are they from!!!???!!! :waitasec:

The 22 yr old alternate juror on Dateline LOVED Baez. he said he liked his 'style' and that he was not like what you'd expect a lawyer to be like.

And this alternate bought everything in Baez's Opening, hook, line and sinker.
He ACCEPTED Baez's accusations that george sexually abused Casey.
And YET, he said there was NO EVIDENCE of a cause of death or a motive. BUT HE DOES ACCEPT WHAT BAEZ SAID, with no evidence presented whatsoever. UUGHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Etiana]

JMO, but ,the reason there is no evidence that Casey was a bad mother is because she was never required to be "the mother". Cindy and George provided everything ,EVERYTHING,for Caylee. We saw some pictures of Casey playing or mugging for a shot with Caylee, but all the pictures with Cindy were of her actually doing something with Caylee.She helped up the stairs to the pool and got to swim with her. The video of Caylee's 2nd birthday,it's Cindy who keeps chasing after Caylee while Casey sits in a chair laughing.
And the texting! went on for the majority of the day and night.When did she do anything with Caylee.? How did she find the time if she was texting constantly?
Maybe there were no red flags of Casey being an abusive mom,but she wasn't really acting like a mom at all.

Amen to that! It's just common sense to realize that ICA was focused on anything but Caylee, but at this point I'm beginning to wonder if this jury used any common sense

 

[Kimster]

Is this the kind of society we are now? Where it's okay to base such important decisions on our feelings?

:sigh:

 

[robmom]

Omg I've wanted to scream what you posted--

DID they not SEE the form?!?!?!?

Well, here's my question to them, you had a choice of murder, premeditated murder, manslaughter, child abuse, all sorts of choices.

What ELSE would they have voted guilty on? If she didn't kill her on purpose or accidentally and she didn't abuse her, what would they have found her guilty of since they all agree she's guilty. Covering up a crime?

I hope an interviewer asks them because I'm honestly interested in what they'd answer.

 

[MissJames]

Well, they can continue to go on all these shows and try to justify what they did,but with every sentence that comes out of each of their mouths,it's clear they did not do what jurors are supposed to do . They will forever be known as the jury who let a baby killer off. Had they deliberated for a few more days I think there would be less suspicion about their actions,but it's clear they went in knowing how they would vote and didn't bother to look at anything . JMO