What questions are still unanswered?

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The only lingering question I have is the following:

What can Mallory possibly be thinking by having chosen to and continuing to choose to stay connected to the Anthony family?
 
LE went into this to find a missing child. There is no reason for them to immediately go from "missing kidnapped child" to "possible murder". LE investigated the missing child story and when it was obvious that there was no apartment that Zenaida lived in, no apartment that Zenaida's mother lived in and no job at universal, the investigation changed directions

Yes, however LE walked in and out of the garage into the house and right past the sunfire on that night in July and not one of them smelled a foul smell much less smelt it and lept to decomposition. This was, according to so many other people who smelt it, a very obvious and foul smell and one everyone claimed was decomposition. Lee even said he walked past the car and it stunk. George and the tow yard owner said they smelled it on approach in a open air parking lot. I don't get how a bunch of seasoned experienced homicide LE officers didn't notice it, and identify it as suspicious and at least take a glance.
 
The only lingering question I have is the following:

What can Mallory possibly be thinking by having chosen to and continuing to choose to stay connected to the Anthony family?

If you can find her deposition from earlier this year, you will see she is just like Cindy, George, and Lee ala KC Koolaid. She fits right in and is right where she wants to be, imo.
 
LE went into this to find a missing child. There is no reason for them to immediately go from "missing kidnapped child" to "possible murder". LE investigated the missing child story and when it was obvious that there was no apartment that Zenaida lived in, no apartment that Zenaida's mother lived in and no job at universal, the investigation changed directions

Well, that is the answer Yuri gave on the stand and I respect your post and your opinion, but I still say there was no excuse for LE not to check the car as soon as they arrived at the Anthony's house on July 15 2008. You say it was initially a "missing kidnapped child" but even before that... really ... the very first thing... the thing that started this entire thing, was Cindy saying, "Something is wrong. It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car." Now, hearing that, I would have to say any officer arriving on the scene would HAVE to check out the car. To me, that is so obvious I can't for the life of me figure out why it was not done.

How many missing kidnapped children end up being dead bodies? I have no idea what the percentage is, but I would think it would be high enough for even any rookie cop to go check out the car after a family member relayed the fact in the 911 call that the mother of the child who is missing/kidnapped has a car that smells like there's been a dead body inside!!!

I am just frustrated at what could have been done and was not done. There is no excuse, absolutely none, for not checking out that car with the dead body smell upon arrival after that call. And, imo, there is no hindsight involved in this either. Like I said before, Cindy served it up on a silver platter with her 911 call. I am not sure how much plainer it could get.

I will agree to disagree on this, though, and thanks for responding. :)
 
With all due respect to WSers who sleuthed for three years because they care about little Caylee and justice, can someone help me see the point in this ongoing discussion of the evidence and what was allowed and what was not allowed, etc., given the perp has been found not guilty?

I mean, if Caylee's murder were an ongoing investigation I could understand, but the case has been solved and the killer is being set free so I just do not see the point in rehashing all this. I know some find it necessary for the healing process but I am not sure this is not more likely to prolong the pain of this sad, sad case.

For many, including me, it's an unsolved case. Personally, I majored in Psych and had enough hours for a minor in Sociology (I transferred during my college years, so no real minor).

Sociology as a subject has been cut out at many universities because of budget cuts, and sadly so. It's a study of how humans group, relate, and form structures. I've known plenty of students that benefited from a SOC class or two, such as my urban planner husband.

Sociology has become very relevant, again, because of social media, and I daresay this case is pertinent to the subject. Unfortunately, it's not being studied in upper education.

As one who has (somewhat) studied sociology, I'm fascinated as to the public reaction to this case as it is playing out. I've been told to "get over it." I'm over the verdict (well, I'm interested in the jurors' thinking and if a failure happened). I'm too interested in the human condition to not pay attention. It's a hobby of sorts.

Although, I'm concerned that a sweet girl's death will never be explained.
 
I can only assume that the tape wasn't the same brand and that the hairs didn't match Caylee's DNA? Because otherwise why wouldn't that have been really weighty evidence to add to the prosecution's theory??

And yes, the irony of making an accident look like murder...


I believe you're right on target.

If I were taping a body up to stage a kidnapping, I would wear disposable gloves first. Why risk leaving fingerprints with the body a mere few blocks from your own home? (Why especially would GA do this?)

IIRC, the fourth piece of duct tape was not the Henkel brand. But I assume that would not matter if the tape contained Caylee's DNA. I lost the trail on this fourth piece of tape during trial, but I agree it must have lacked DNA.

If Mr. Kronk and LE had found the remains in August 2008, perhaps there would have been recoverable DNA and prints.

IMO, if Caylee's remains were still missing today, ICA would still be swearing to the kidnapping story.

There is no good reason why ICA lied to LE, and lied to the 911 dispatcher about a fake phone call from Caylee, just to cover up an accidental drowning.

:boohoo: :eek:fftobed: :websleuther:
 
With all due respect to WSers who sleuthed for three years because they care about little Caylee and justice, can someone help me see the point in this ongoing discussion of the evidence and what was allowed and what was not allowed, etc., given the perp has been found not guilty?

I mean, if Caylee's murder were an ongoing investigation I could understand, but the case has been solved and the killer is being set free so I just do not see the point in rehashing all this. I know some find it necessary for the healing process but I am not sure this is not more likely to prolong the pain of this sad, sad case.


There are probably a few reasons.

()--- Decades after the fact, people still debate events like the assassinations of JFK and MLK Jr., the deaths of celebs like Natalie Wood, the Chappaquiddick incident, and the Jon-Benet story, because they find unanswered questions in the official narrative, and are naturally curious.

()--- People might still assume that ICA will face further litigation, such as OJ did in his civil suit from the Goldmans, and the Zeneida Gonzales defamation suit. The ICA saga might not be officially over.

()--- Those in criminal justice careers could perhaps gain practical insight from analyzing this case, which JA said was the most intellectually complex and engaging of his 30 year career. This is similar to college courses in case law, where cases a century old are still studied for legal insights.


:waitasec: :websleuther: :Banane37:
 
There are probably a few reasons.

()--- Decades after the fact, people still debate events like the assassinations of JFK and MLK Jr., the deaths of celebs like Natalie Wood, the Chappaquiddick incident, and the Jon-Benet story, because they find unanswered questions in the official narrative, and are naturally curious.

()--- People might still assume that ICA will face further litigation, such as OJ did in his civil suit from the Goldmans, and the Zeneida Gonzales defamation suit. The ICA saga might not be officially over.

()--- Those in criminal justice careers could perhaps gain practical insight from analyzing this case, which JA said was the most intellectually complex and engaging of his 30 year career. This is similar to college courses in case law, where cases a century old are still studied for legal insights.


:waitasec: :websleuther: :Banane37:


Awww . . . thanks for bringing up Natalie Wood. Every time I see Robert Wagner on those commercials he does, I am reminded of that whole suspicious scenario about her death. She was so beautiful!
 
Yes, however LE walked in and out of the garage into the house and right past the sunfire on that night in July and not one of them smelled a foul smell much less smelt it and lept to decomposition. This was, according to so many other people who smelt it, a very obvious and foul smell and one everyone claimed was decomposition. Lee even said he walked past the car and it stunk. George and the tow yard owner said they smelled it on approach in a open air parking lot. I don't get how a bunch of seasoned experienced homicide LE officers didn't notice it, and identify it as suspicious and at least take a glance.
LE was looking for a live missing child - a stinky car was not their first priority - and who said LE was going in and out of the house through the garage?
 
LE was looking for a live missing child - a stinky car was not their first priority - and who said LE was going in and out of the house through the garage?

I believe it was Cindy on the stand. She said the main front door to their home was never used. Furthering that point it was extra locked up and secured because they never used it. They all pulled into the garage and used the garage door into the main home.

This was again mentioned when the certified letter from the towing company was placed on their front door. Since the door was never used, it took a bit longer for them to find. It was found somewhat by chance when George and Cindy were weeding the front yard one day.

If I remember correctly, Cindy said on the stand, the night she found Casey at Tonys and demanded she be taken to get Caylee, she drove home, pulled into the driveway or garage. Lee was already there. I believe Lee even remarked how bad it stunk that night. They all went into the house via the garage. Her testimony gave me to understand the garage door was left open and LE entered the home via the garage door also.

I believe one of the female officers testified she pasted by the cars in the garage on her way in and out of the house back to the patrol car.

I could understand it if the garage was on the other side of the house and no one went near the cars. However from many accounts, everyone walked right past the cars many times that night in and out of the house back and forth to the police cars. This was more than a stinky car. It was a car that clearly stunk of decomposition from a distance as many testified on the stand. George and the towing company owner said they smelled it on approach so much so George claimed he prayed it was Casey or Caylee dead inside the trunk. The Tow guy said he believed it was decomposition and held his tongue.

LE officers don't smell decomposition and ignore it because no one is reporting a dead body. I am just rather surprised LE didn't smell it and at least check it out. It wasn't cleaned to the point it was masked because Dr Vass got the air samples and "took 2 steps back" after smelling it it was SO bad.

Something doesn't sit right about this whole thing.

Either the smell was lied about, exaggerated, or some people have a more acute sense of smell than others or some just ignored it. I don't see what else it could be.
 
Yes, however LE walked in and out of the garage into the house and right past the sunfire on that night in July and not one of them smelled a foul smell much less smelt it and lept to decomposition. This was, according to so many other people who smelt it, a very obvious and foul smell and one everyone claimed was decomposition. Lee even said he walked past the car and it stunk. George and the tow yard owner said they smelled it on approach in a open air parking lot. I don't get how a bunch of seasoned experienced homicide LE officers didn't notice it, and identify it as suspicious and at least take a glance.

The LE that were there before Yuri were not homicide detectives and from what they testified to on the stand, had no experience with the smell of decomp. I also did not hear "many accounts" of LE walking back and forth past the car. Sense of smell can be highly variable. Did you know there is a certain percentage of people that cannot smell musk? I know musk is not decomp, but maybe there are people that are not able to pick up on that smell as easily as others. I think that the important thing here is that people that had MANY years of experience with the smell of decomp did smell it in the trunk. To disregard that information is quite ignorant, IMO.
 
I believe it was Cindy on the stand. She said the main front door to their home was never used. Furthering that point it was extra locked up and secured because they never used it. They all pulled into the garage and used the garage door into the main home.

This was again mentioned when the certified letter from the towing company was placed on their front door. Since the door was never used, it took a bit longer for them to find. It was found somewhat by chance when George and Cindy were weeding the front yard one day.

If I remember correctly, Cindy said on the stand, the night she found Casey at Tonys and demanded she be taken to get Caylee, she drove home, pulled into the driveway or garage. Lee was already there. I believe Lee even remarked how bad it stunk that night. They all went into the house via the garage. Her testimony gave me to understand the garage door was left open and LE entered the home via the garage door also.

I believe one of the female officers testified she pasted by the cars in the garage on her way in and out of the house back to the patrol car.

I could understand it if the garage was on the other side of the house and no one went near the cars. However from many accounts, everyone walked right past the cars many times that night in and out of the house back and forth to the police cars. This was more than a stinky car. It was a car that clearly stunk of decomposition from a distance as many testified on the stand. George and the towing company owner said they smelled it on approach so much so George claimed he prayed it was Casey or Caylee dead inside the trunk. The Tow guy said he believed it was decomposition and held his tongue.

LE officers don't smell decomposition and ignore it because no one is reporting a dead body. I am just rather surprised LE didn't smell it and at least check it out. It wasn't cleaned to the point it was masked because Dr Vass got the air samples and "took 2 steps back" after smelling it it was SO bad.

Something doesn't sit right about this whole thing.

Either the smell was lied about, exaggerated, or some people have a more acute sense of smell than others or some just ignored it. I don't see what else it could be.

We don't have a video of that night but there are videos of when LE went to the house, twice, with search warrants and when they went there to arrest ICA - they used the front door. Maybe the female officer did pass by the car but to reiterate, initially the main focus was to find a missing child
 
yes cindy did say that on the stand re: the tow yard letter but when LE did the search warrants, twice, and when they went to check whatever when ICA was out on bond and when they went to arrest ICA - LE used the front door per the videos. If ICA and Lee weren't in the garage when LE arrived the natural thing and safe thing for them to do would be go to the front door.

It would be the natural thing, yes, I agree. I didn't get that impression from everything Cindy said. If indeed LE did go in and out of the house via the front door then its very understandable how no one saw it much less smelled anything.
 
It would be the natural thing, yes, I agree. I didn't get that impression from everything Cindy said. If indeed LE did go in and out of the house via the front door then its very understandable how no one saw it much less smelled anything.

Hey I am stressed as ----. I want answers too. So I apologize that I came off too abrupt - didn't mean it personal towards you at all. I agree with you that everything is off - 3 years and what just happened?
 
We don't have a video of that night but there are videos of when LE went to the house, twice, with search warrants and when they went there to arrest ICA - they used the front door.

I was only referring to the initial LE response to Cindy's 911 call where she claimed the car was found and it smelled of a dead body. LE attended and a few hours (I believe) later, Yuri Melich attended. I don't know if other detectives attended as well.

That initial call was responding to a kidnapping and then looking for a live Caylee. However IF Yuri (and maybe other LE) entered the house via the garage, the sunfire was right there in the garage. Only a few hours earlier the odour of decomp was smelled on approach by George and the tow yard owner. I just found it strange Yuri didn't smell it and if he did smell it why he didn't recognize it as being decomp and check it out. Live child or not, you don't ignore a decomp smell.

Yuri was VERY credible, very honest appearing in testimony and clearly a very experienced LE officer. I am not insinuating anything less of him. I just found it strange IF he passed right by the car, why he didn't smell it.

Absolutely EVERYONE who testified or reported they have smelled decomp in their life claim you NEVER mistake it as anything else. I personally have never smelled it. I hope I never do. So I am purely going on everyone elses reports you NEVER EVER mistake it or forget it.
 
Well, that is the answer Yuri gave on the stand and I respect your post and your opinion, but I still say there was no excuse for LE not to check the car as soon as they arrived at the Anthony's house on July 15 2008. You say it was initially a "missing kidnapped child" but even before that... really ... the very first thing... the thing that started this entire thing, was Cindy saying, "Something is wrong. It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car." Now, hearing that, I would have to say any officer arriving on the scene would HAVE to check out the car. To me, that is so obvious I can't for the life of me figure out why it was not done.

How many missing kidnapped children end up being dead bodies? I have no idea what the percentage is, but I would think it would be high enough for even any rookie cop to go check out the car after a family member relayed the fact in the 911 call that the mother of the child who is missing/kidnapped has a car that smells like there's been a dead body inside!!!

I am just frustrated at what could have been done and was not done. There is no excuse, absolutely none, for not checking out that car with the dead body smell upon arrival after that call. And, imo, there is no hindsight involved in this either. Like I said before, Cindy served it up on a silver platter with her 911 call. I am not sure how much plainer it could get.

I will agree to disagree on this, though, and thanks for responding. :)

Like any of us who have experienced 'that smell' can tell you, it is like no other and you know exactly what it is if you come upon it again. I had not thought of why they didn't notice it till I read this. It would seem to me that even if LE had arrived to investigate a break in or any complaint, that odor would have been noticed, no matter their intent there. It is not a smell that you would only hone in on if your mindset was already on a possible death of anyone.
I have tons of questions that keep swirling in my mind and once they settle down I will post more of them here if I don't find them already addressed in a previous post, since I haven't read them all yet.
One thing I have to share is this: I am not a huge fan of Dr. Phil but there are a few things that he has said over the years that ring absolutely true with me or make me understand things more now that I've thought about it.
One of them is his 'theory of denial'. He talked about how intelligent, coping human beings can make the oddest or most horrendous, inexplicable decisions based on denial. Not the true denial we know from Psychology, but rather denial on the spot, in the moment. His example was plane crashes. He has studied many black boxes from crashes and what he has found is that in many cases, the pilots are heard to be looking at the altimeters, gauges and the panel, factually the plane is going down or there is a terrible problem indicated by the panel and yet the pilots are saying, "Well, THAT can't be right, there must be a problem with the panel!" In the seconds that they spend not believing what is right there in front of their eyes, the plane is going down further and doomed. That is not to say that in all cases they could have averted the crash but in some cases they could have.
I apply this to why George didn't call 911 about the smell. Part of his brain knows he's smelling death. Fact to him. But that other part is saying 'oh come on, that's ridiculous!" I think that denial can be tagged in many situations every day, when normal people encounter what doesn't immediately get processed in their brain. I hope I explained that to say what I mean, it's a different thing than what we've come to know as traditional denial.
 
Hey I am stressed as ----. I want answers too. So I apologize if I came off too abrupt - didn't mean it personal towards you at all. I agree with you that everything is off - 3 years and what just happened?

*smiles* Thank you. We are good :) You weren't abrupt. I do appreciate you taking your time and explaining it all. I absolutely don't recall every detail. Some answers from the trial just don't quite add up. I also know not everything came out at trial either and witnesses don't get to testify other than what is asked.

Its why I love this forum because there are so many brilliant legal (and lay) minds all brain storming and discussing and its civilized unlike so many of the face book witchhunt forums.
 
I think that denial can be tagged in many situations every day, when normal people encounter what doesn't immediately get processed in their brain. I hope I explained that to say what I mean, it's a different thing than what we've come to know as traditional denial.

*respectfully snipped*

For family members, for people in the immediate witness area of a crime, perhaps yes, but not LE attending the scene. They are not emotionally attached to the scene and are trained to respond otherwise.
 
*respectfully snipped*

For family members, for people in the immediate witness area of a crime, perhaps yes, but not LE attending the scene. They are not emotionally attached to the scene and are trained to respond otherwise.


Thank you for posting that! I was not clear in my segue from my comments about LE and then George.
I do not understand why LE didn't pick up even on the hint of an odor like that coming from the car. I have smelled death and I have to agree. You never forget it and you KNOW what it is right away. I don't understand why they didn't detect even a hint of it and act on it.
My comments about the denial were about George being the Grandpa. I think in that series of moments the Gpa side was a bit stronger than the former LE side of him. With Caylee being his grandbaby his denial won out slightly. He knew what that smell was but he couldn't process it fully. I did find it interesting that he went behind Cindy's back to LE and talked to them about things, including his recognition of that smell.
 
My comments about the denial were about George being the Grandpa. I think in that series of moments the Gpa side was a bit stronger than the former LE side of him. With Caylee being his grandbaby his denial won out slightly. He knew what that smell was but he couldn't process it fully. I did find it interesting that he went behind Cindy's back to LE and talked to them about things, including his recognition of that smell.

I think things in that house were according to the law of Cindy Anthony. Anything you wished to do otherwise had to of gone behind her.

I imagine at that moment George approached the sunfire at the tow yard was terrifying until he found the trunk empty of bodies and only trash. I imagine the instant relief and the flood of other temporary answers for the initial smell. Unfortunately on the drive home, the few hours the car sat in the garage before that night hearing "Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny" and the enslaught of LE and the subsequent unmasking that everything out of Casey's mouth was turning up a lie, I believe George began putting 2 and 2 together that Caylee might not be alive. Clearly he was torn, Grandpa VS his years as LE.

I think George knew or suspected so much more than Cindy would let him utter in public. OR as you said, he could just abide in as much denial as he could to cope. It would still be 5 more months from this night before they knew for certain Caylee was dead.
 
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