Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

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Aame said:
I agree with pretty much what you've said. I know he lied, but I saw a broken spirit. What I saw was that little boy inside that was torn apart. As the old adage goes," the squeaky wheel gets the oil". I think alot more was expected of him, and whenever something happened I think Lee got the heat. After all he was the oldest, he should know better.

It would not surprise me if Lee was made to purchase his Mustang because now it was Casey's time to drive.

I think his fiance did all she could to try and make it as easy for him as possible so it would not be another arrow from the family had she said otherwise. jmo
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Lee should have moved out when he turned 18 if he was so tortured, IMO. I don't think he would have ever left home, if Casey had not become pregnant...this whole family had some weird things going on, IMO.
 
zeeks said:
You know she did. Her former bf's testimonies all imply that she has a preoccupied attachment style, quickly developing attachments and becoming clingywi th men she dates. A man who was her only contact to the outside world for three years would lead to her having a hard time separating and possibly making assumptions about their 'relationship' (wanting to create emotional intimacy).
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I don't know about attachment. I think FCA is a user, and only cares for herself. FCA was sleeping with at least two, TL & AR (deputy who was fired for lying to OCSO), and possibly RM, and she was also stringing along several other guys, WW (4th of July party guy), MH (CA marine), JG, and long time friend RP. FCA seemed to have many guys at her disposal during those 30+ days.
 
I saw some of the jailhouse tapes on Nancy Grace tonight (didn't think I could watch anything about this case again, but I was alone and making dinner). On one of the tapes, Casey said that she chose her dad to meet with in private at the jail because she and George had had a bad relationship for so long, and had only begun to repair it the day that Casey went to jail. This bit of info about her and George's fractured relationship made me again think (along with a lot of you) that George was the parent who at least tried to call Casey out on her lies and tried to figure out what she was doing with her life.

In the jailhouse tapes, I was struck by how emotionally expressive this family is, which, to me, contradicts the defense's implication that Casey was suppressing feelings after the "drowning" because she was taught to deny things and to live a lie. Again, they all sound like an emotionally expressive family, not an emotionally suppressive family.

I was also struck by how kind George and Cindy are toward Casey, and how manipulative she is of them. To me, they were just way too nice to her at that jailhouse. I've said it before, Casey was no shrinking violet. She was tough as nails, and her parents allowed themselves to be treated like doormats. I agree with other posters who say that Casey probably used Caylee as leverage after she was born, and of course in the jail George and Cindy were desperate not to alienate the last person to see Caylee, but I'm guessing that this family dynamic (overly indulgent parents/manipulative daughter) was well in place before Caylee was born, and then "missing".

One thing that's a head scratcher during the jailhouse tapes: When it had been one month since Casey was incarcerated and she was "finally angry"* because Cindy, emotionally broken, asked if there was anything else to go on to find Caylee, and it was very clear that Casey had now dropped all pretenses of caring about Caylee and that she saw only herself as a victim, how on earth did George and Cindy restrain themselves from hanging up that phone and walking away in disgust? I know I would have slammed down that phone.

*Can you imagine hearing your daughter say that the only time she's been angry since being incarcerated a month ago is that day, because you're asking her if she can think of anything else to go on to find her daughter? Wouldn't you wonder why she wasn't now, and hadn't been during the month in jail, angry at, oh I don't know, Zenaida Gonzalez?!
 
She could have just suffered the normal losses, pets, didn't finish h.s., lots of relationships left behind, she was probably dumped herself, lost friends, (loss isn't always death), he might also be talking about Caylee. She lost jobs, had a miscarriage I believe, she might just not have had some things, such as a supportive mother, that would be ideal. Now she has lost her family and is losing her defense family. Hopefully losing the enabling, the dependency on others, etc. Any lack could be considered a loss as well. We don';t know if she really was sexually abused or not, we have accusations, but that could be false. It is possible since she and brother aren't too far apart in age, there could have been more agreement there on her part (if something happened)
I agree that she needs treatment, not feel-good therapy. She needs to do Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (1 yr. long) and Moral Reconation therapy (for people with criminal backgrounds), perhaps substance abuse treatment (she was drinking a lot) - both of these are evidence-based therapies, approved to reduce the symptoms, other wise it is pretty hopeless with her traits, she will reoffend and continue to be the Crazy Casey to public, diagnoses be damned. Later she can work on personal issues. Ignoring this huge elephant of a trial, she has criminal behavior with the check fraud and lying to law enforcement and not reporting a missing toddler and in my area she would have to go to one of these classes, hopefully all, to do these therapies. The thinking and behavior must be changed..
HOWEVER, motivation is the key, these things are not easy and Moral Reconation is based on honesty (she would ideally have to confess her crimes to a group). DBT is a lot of homework. So without serious help, not a male psychiatrist like the idiot Abelow said (she will need a female therapist as most women with abuse backgrounds need, most psychiatrists just write perscriptions and have no training in therapy or treatment protocalls), she will fall back on her favorite coping mechanisms, as most do - hers are - man hopping, drinking (pilling?), denial, projection, lying, manipulating, sloughing off responsibility, etc. and criminal behavior. All IMO based on my experience. We can't diagnose without having seen her for interviews, but we saw what we saw, LOTS of collateral contact.
 
She is a malignant Narcissist don't expect change of any depth.

There is no core she only projects what she picked up along the way.

Casey is not real and she will not allow you to know that.
 
Mysticweaver said:
She could have just suffered the normal losses, pets, didn't finish h.s., lots of relationships left behind, she was probably dumped herself, lost friends, (loss isn't always death), he might also be talking about Caylee. She lost jobs, had a miscarriage I believe, she might just not have had some things, such as a supportive mother, that would be ideal. Now she has lost her family and is losing her defense family. Hopefully losing the enabling, the dependency on others, etc. Any lack could be considered a loss as well. We don';t know if she really was sexually abused or not, we have accusations, but that could be false. It is possible since she and brother aren't too far apart in age, there could have been more agreement there on her part (if something happened)
I agree that she needs treatment, not feel-good therapy. She needs to do Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (1 yr. long) and Moral Reconation therapy (for people with criminal backgrounds), perhaps substance abuse treatment (she was drinking a lot) - both of these are evidence-based therapies, approved to reduce the symptoms, other wise it is pretty hopeless with her traits, she will reoffend and continue to be the Crazy Casey to public, diagnoses be damned. Later she can work on personal issues. Ignoring this huge elephant of a trial, she has criminal behavior with the check fraud and lying to law enforcement and not reporting a missing toddler and in my area she would have to go to one of these classes, hopefully all, to do these therapies. The thinking and behavior must be changed..
HOWEVER, motivation is the key, these things are not easy and Moral Reconation is based on honesty (she would ideally have to confess her crimes to a group). DBT is a lot of homework. So without serious help, not a male psychiatrist like the idiot Abelow said (she will need a female therapist as most women with abuse backgrounds need, most psychiatrists just write perscriptions and have no training in therapy or treatment protocalls), she will fall back on her favorite coping mechanisms, as most do - hers are - man hopping, drinking (pilling?), denial, projection, lying, manipulating, sloughing off responsibility, etc. and criminal behavior. All IMO based on my experience. We can't diagnose without having seen her for interviews, but we saw what we saw, LOTS of collateral contact.
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Great post. Welcome to Websleuths
 
According to the one bearded psychologist who tested Casey there is nothing to treat. No personality disorders and no mental illness. She had narcissistic traits 3 years ago when this all happened according to him.
 
txsvicki said:
According to the one bearded psychologist who tested Casey there is nothing to treat. No personality disorders and no mental illness. She had narcissistic traits 3 years ago when this all happened according to him.
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I saw him today. I am very skeptical of independent psychologists who interpret their own MMPI's. I have discovered during my career in litigation, that the most objective interpretations are those that are computer generated. It's not only because opinions can be "bought" by a particular side, but because ego of the psychologist comes into play. The interpretations are as subjective as the individual interpreting them.

I don't think for a minute that she was capable of not registering as invalid or having a personality disorder. I would like to see his raw data. I ALWAYS request the raw data. I wish these worthless "anchors" would do so...Dr. Drew should know better. He makes me want to vomit.

Andrea Yates was insane. She should not have been convicted. She was the epitome of ca-razy. Casey is the epitome of evil. There is a HUGE difference.
 
KarmicLaw said:
I saw him today. I am very skeptical of independent psychologists who interpret their own MMPI's. I have discovered during my career in litigation, that the most objective interpretations are those that are computer generated. It's not only because opinions can be "bought" by a particular side, but because ego of the psychologist comes into play. The interpretations are as subjective as the individual interpreting them.
I don't think for a minute that she was capable of not registering as invalid or having a personality disorder. I would like to see his raw data. I ALWAYS request the raw data. I wish these worthless "anchors" would do so...Dr. Drew should know better. He makes me want to vomit.

Andrea Yates was insane. She should not have been convicted. She was the epitome of ca-razy. Casey is the epitome of evil. There is a HUGE difference.
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The MMPI uses specific algorithms that all psychologists learn. There is no "opinion." You interpret the significant scales and that is it. I never put my opinion and all my sentences begin "Individuals with similar profiles..." The computer generated profiles is the exact same as hand scored it just takes a lot less time. And the funny part about your comment is, the print out doesn't even give you a full interpretation of the elevated scales and codetypes. And it is not subjective. Otherwise, there wouldn't be reliability and validity involved.

I do not EVER release raw data to any lawyer because they are not trained in the MMPI. I ONLY release raw data to other psychologists. How in the world can a lawyer do all the algorithms and interpretations if they have not been trained in it? That would be a scary world if raw data is released to an uneducated (in psych interpretations) person and say here you go you interpret it.

I am getting tired of people saying psychologists don't know what they are saying and doing. Why do you think they go to school. To learn to pick their nose. I just don't get it. I don't bash other professions and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs. Rant over.
 
I just saw this up in the news section."For the first time, Clint House and Nathan Lezniewicz are sharing details they never told anyone, not even the jury."

<snip>

"I taught her words," House said. "I taught her how to say alligator and what an alligator was. We liked Caylee coming over more than we liked Casey coming over."

http://www.wpbf.com/news/28573478/detail.html

I find this to be very sad. Nobody in that house even tried to teach little Caylee to talk. I could tell by the Father's Day video that her speech capabilities were very limited for her age. My daughter was not only talking but reading books when she was 3, but she was an exception and actually taught herself to read.
Regardless, it seems Caylee was just a dress up doll in that house.
 
Padua said:
The MMPI uses specific algorithms that all psychologists learn. There is no "opinion." You interpret the significant scales and that is it. I never put my opinion and all my sentences begin "Individuals with similar profiles..." The computer generated profiles is the exact same as hand scored it just takes a lot less time. And the funny part about your comment is, the print out doesn't even give you a full interpretation of the elevated scales and codetypes. And it is not subjective. Otherwise, there wouldn't be reliability and validity involved.

I do not EVER release raw data to any lawyer because they are not trained in the MMPI. I ONLY release raw data to other psychologists. How in the world can a lawyer do all the algorithms and interpretations if they have not been trained in it? That would be a scary world if raw data is released to an uneducated (in psych interpretations) person and say here you go you interpret it.

I am getting tired of people saying psychologists don't know what they are saying and doing. Why do you think they go to school. To learn to pick their nose. I just don't get it. I don't bash other professions and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs. Rant over.
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While I agree with you in principle about interpreting MMPI data...I also must disagree with all psychologists diagnosing correctly. You can take a patient to ten different experts and get ten varying answers regarding diagnosis.
 
Padua said:
I am getting tired of people saying psychologists don't know what they are saying and doing. Why do you think they go to school. To learn to pick their nose. I just don't get it. I don't bash other professions and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs. Rant over.
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<respectfully snipped>

When I read this I sense that you have been hurt and angry by people who have attacked your profession. Please know that I never intended to attack the entire profession. I used to work in a psychotherapy office and there were so many incredibly talented individuals that I admired. But can you honestly tell me that every person in your entire occupation...in the entire world, even though they have had an incredible education...is not capable of error, or incompetence, or pandering?

That is patently absurd. Lawyers go through an incredible amount of education, yet there is a losing lawyer on every case. Does that mean the losing lawyer is incompetent? No! But if they do not learn from their experience and wish to win a future case, then all the education in the world is not going to help them. What will help them is humble pie.

I don't even know you, but I know litigation. I am an "all cards on the table kind of girl". The mere fact that anyone would be so defensive and possessive of their raw data would automatically raise a red flag in my mind. If one doesn't have anything to hide, and their interpretations are beyond reproach, who cares whether they are released. If some unscrupulous lawyer attempts to discredit the raw data without using a trained PhD, it won't withstand judicial scrutiny.

You sound as though your releasing raw data to another psychologist will ensure that you both come to the same conclusion. You and I both know that is not the case. And if it is the case, you haven't been doing it long enough or involved in litigation enough and therefore, lack the objectivity needed to address the issue.

I do love your spunk though!!
 
KarmicLaw said:
<respectfully snipped>

When I read this I sense that you have been hurt and angry by people who have attacked your profession. Please know that I never intended to attack the entire profession. I used to work in a psychotherapy office and there were so many incredibly talented individuals that I admired. But can you honestly tell me that every person in your entire occupation...in the entire world, even though they have had an incredible education...is not capable of error, or incompetence, or pandering?

That is patently absurd. Lawyers go through an incredible amount of education, yet there is a losing lawyer on every case. Does that mean the losing lawyer is incompetent? No! But if they do not learn from their experience and wish to win a future case, then all the education in the world is not going to help them. What will help them is humble pie.

I don't even know you, but I know litigation. I am an "all cards on the table kind of girl". The mere fact that anyone would be so defensive and possessive of their raw data would automatically raise a red flag in my mind. If one doesn't have anything to hide, and their interpretations are beyond reproach, who cares whether they are released. If some unscrupulous lawyer attempts to discredit the raw data without using a trained PhD, it won't withstand judicial scrutiny.

You sound as though your releasing raw data to another psychologist will ensure that you both come to the same conclusion. You and I both know that is not the case. And if it is the case, you haven't been doing it long enough or involved in litigation enough and therefore, lack the objectivity needed to address the issue.I do love your spunk though!!
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Our ethics code states we are not allowed to release raw data unless the person on the receiving end has been trained in interpretation of psychological evaluations.
 
stilettos said:
While I agree with you in principle about interpreting MMPI data...I also must disagree with all psychologists diagnosing correctly. You can take a patient to ten different experts and get ten varying answers regarding diagnosis.
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You can't diagnose on the MMPI alone. Standard of practice is three or more tests.
 
The following article by Joe Navarro is especially helpful in understanding Casey, the trial results and lots more:

Joe Navarro is a former FBI Counterintelligence Agent and is the author of What Every Body is Saying. He is an expert on nonverbal communications and body language.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ot-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial

The Not So Obvious Lessons From The Casey Anthony Trial
Some things to think about.
Published on July 13, 2011 by Joe Navarro, M.A. in Spycatcher

1. No remorse or conscience - they don't feel bad about what they do, only getting caught
2. Glibness/superficial charm - when they want to, and it benefits them, they act as they need to - they are chameleon like & superficially interesting
3. Aggressively narcissistic - everything has to be their way, if you don't agree with them, you are a hindrance and an obstacle
4. They believe themselves above the law which for them are formalities to bend or break
5. Grandiose sense of self-worth - they over value themselves and their needs and devalue the needs or worth of others.
6. They are pathological liars; lying even when they don't have to and doing so with great facility
7. Cunning/manipulative - extremely versatile from a very early age
8. Lack of guilt - a key feature of psychopathy. While others are being destroyed physically or emotionally, they don't feel a thing
9. Emotionally shallow - their emotions are lacking or blunted, or at times inappropriate
10. Callous/lack of empathy - don't really care about the feeling of others only themselves
11. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - always someone else's fault never their own.
12. High need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - they would rather play than work which is routine and boring
13. Parasitic lifestyle - would rather let others work - better to leech money off of other than earn money
14. Poor behavioral control - irresponsible behavior is a large factor as is putting others in danger
15. Promiscuous sexual behavior - what some would call "slutty" behavior
16. Lack of realistic, long-term goals - they live for the moment without planning for the future
17. Impulsiveness - doing what they want when they want as they want
18. Criminal versatility - the ability to commit crimes and lie with ease
19. Criminal behavior - they routinely steal, cheat, lie, or fail to comply with laws
20. Use people - people are to be used or manipulated, not cared for
 
That is a great article Yellow Rose!! I saw the link earlier this morning and could not have been more pleased with the author's professionalism and expertise.
 
Padua said:
Our ethics code states we are not allowed to release raw data unless the person on the receiving end has been trained in interpretation of psychological evaluations.
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That is not a law and that is not enforcable. I don't think that is in any civil, criminal, or evidence code. If that is SOP among psychologists, it is a travesty and a gang mentality of CYA. You are required to produce it under court order or subpeona. If you wish to file a Motion to Quash, I do not think your "ethics code" will prevail.

ETA: In addition...you are required under HIPPA to release anything that the patient requests you to, unless you can prove that it would be detrimental to the health and well being of the patient.
 
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