Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[katydid23]

i don't have a source for this but anyone who does feel free to link: wasn't it found around 30 feet away?

i understand your points and i think that is the most logical reason, but there is just nothing connecting a piece of cardboard to anything in this case. there was no "puffy" heart stickers found in the home (no source for this either but they obviously weren't introduced) that could have been from the same sticker sheet as this sticker. i just don't really understand the relevance other than the obvious heart shape being relevant. they didn't tie it into their case at all is what i'm saying.

I was jumping up and down and screaming at the TV during the puffy heart testimony. I used to throw Valentines Day parties when my kids were younger.

At Michael's Craft stores, where i bought party supplies, they had heart stickers. In each sheet, ONE OR TWO WERE PUFFY STICKERS, the rest flat. I assume the same happened here.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

There's only one plausible explanation for what happened to Caylee Marie Anthony. She was suffocated and then her lifeless little body thrown away like garbage in a swamp just minutes from the home she once shared with some people with the last name of Anthony.

 

[askfornina]

I was jumping up and down and screaming at the TV during the puffy heart testimony. I used to throw Valentines Day parties when my kids were younger.

At Michael's Craft stores, where i bought party supplies, they had heart stickers. In each sheet, ONE OR TWO WERE PUFFY STICKERS, the rest flat. I assume the same happened here.

thank you for answering. that could very well be the case. but- this is a small part of a larger whole - there was nothing connecting that piece of cardboard to the car. and besides being found a distance away, nothing connecting it to the crime scene or the remains. that is why introducing it didn't make sense to me.

 

[Tink]

First, Caylee was definitively shown not to be the product of an incestuous relationship. That's just not on the table.

The reason that there were no fingerprints or DNA on Caylee's body was not that Casey was brilliant. It's that the body was not found for months, and was underwater a good amount of that time. Those conditions will destroy fingerprints and DNA. Had the body been found, say, a few days after she tossed it there we might have a whole different outcome.

Could Casey have hidden the fact that she was not working for nearly two years? Well, she certainly wouldn't have been the first one to do it - there have been many cases like this. I had a friend whose husband pretended to work for over a year before she found out - fortunately, she was able to just divorce him, he didn't kill her. It's not that impossible.

I don't know exactly how Casey killed Caylee, but I am convinced that she did. Remember she not only looked up chloroform (and how to make it), she looked up household weapons, neck breaking, etc. This was a girl with murder on her mind. I think that in the end she went with the duct tape around her mouth and nose. This idea sickens me, and I hope that she perhaps gave Caylee some drugs or something, or that the little girl was somehow unconscious and not aware of what was being done to her.

That's the reason she couldn't pretend that it was some kind of accidental death - the duct tape. It's pretty clear from the evidence that the tape was over her mouth and nose and wrapped around her head into her hair. This is a truly horrible thing to do to a child. As the flesh decomposed, the tape stayed in place because it was still attached to the hair, and kept the mandible in place because it kind of cradled it there even though it wasn't stuck to it now the flesh was gone.

Tink

 

[DAWN TREADER]

I am at peace knowing Karma brings its own kind of justice and it won't be for sale.

 

[joypath]

BBM If Caylee had been smothered in the house and kept there until the next day until George left for work THEN put in the sandbox, decomposition would have already started and the cavader dogs would have hit inside the house which they did not.

:twocents: HAD Caylee's body been retained within the confines of the home for an extended period of time, even with the A/C on, the body would have begun a purge mechanism when moved UNLESS moved with knowledge and precision (ask any newbie OCME or mortuary tech about bodily fluid "surprises" on clothing and/or shoes!).:rocker: The "untrained" family dogs would have sprinted toward the area where any decompositional fluids may have seeped into the surface and given some type of a signal (scratching, excessive whimpering, or sniffing).

:twocents: I :innocent: recognize that the actual case is over and done, but many many many questions remain!:maddening: And yet I can't stop reading about this case! :seeya:

 

[Darkprincess65]

[/B]

She had to sit in jail...because if she admitted to an accident, she would have to lead LE to Caylee's body and then they would see the duct tape, the place she left her etc...so in Oct 08 when she was charged, she was just hoping Caylee would never be found. By the time Caylee was found, it was way too late to claim "accident." I think they/she just threw George into the mix sometime this spring when figuring out a strategy, so that maybe the jury would think HE had left her in the swamp...

In all honesty if she had screamed it was an accident and was forced to take them to Caylee's body? The facts of how the family pets were buried would have come into play. In fact, in hindsight thinking, I'm thinking that's where JB was going with that whole line of questioning anyway. That was part of reasonable doubt. The charges wouldn't have been murder. Probably a lesser charge. Or two at the very least.

I'm in no way condoning the act. Nor am I assuming that CMA is telling the "truth". But the plausibility of an accidental drowning would have been easier to stomach. I still wouldn't have sat in jail for 3 years over an accident if it had been me in those shoes. I'd be screaming accident and doing everything I could to just get it over with. BUT, this was not the case in this whole case whatsoever. Do I believe GA knew something about this? I'm on the fence at the moment. Still. I don't want to keep rehashing the different scenario's in my head because there are a few outside of an accident. The fact that JB said it was a "pool accident" does not leave CMA out of the equation as innocent either. There is accidental drowning. And if so? Any other parent I know, myself included would be going hysterical and calling 911. If this was the case with CMA? What stopped her from doing so? Wild horses couldn't prevent me or keep me from calling for help. Or leaving the house to go next door. Or to stand out front and scream like a madwoman for help.

I could believe the pool comes into play. But I'm not buying the whole accident theory though. Too many elements of the theory is still missing for me. MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

:twocents: HAD Caylee's body been retained within the confines of the home for an extended period of time, even with the A/C on, the body would have begun a purge mechanism when moved UNLESS moved with knowledge and precision (ask any newbie OCME or mortuary tech about bodily fluid "surprises" on clothing and/or shoes!).:rocker: The "untrained" family dogs would have sprinted toward the area where any decompositional fluids may have seeped into the surface and given some type of a signal (scratching, excessive whimpering, or sniffing).

:twocents: I :innocent: recognize that the actual case is over and done, but many many many questions remain!:maddening: And yet I can't stop reading about this case! :seeya:

The dogs were "allowed" in the backyard. The didn't have a search warrant until Aug 1 or 8th? Should have brought the dogs in! I think they assumed she was killed in the trunk and were verifying she had not been buried in the yard...
Now you got me thinking the leak issue... were there water lines there in the wall I thought no.
still sorta think the chest freezer was used since it was replaced. as well as the w/d IIRC.
and the lime GA used... wish I still had the file I kept! from the "toss" site. Sure looked like a
pesticide or something was used there. But didn't someone say a body kills grass and plants?

maybe there was something in that room and the dogs started marking it?
Sounds like the wall was wet. Were both female?

 

[GiantPickle]

All I have to do is listen to CA and GA in their first appearances in this case to know they don't have anything to do with it. CA on the 911 call is a frantic woman and I think it might be the only time during this whole ordeal that she was telling the truth. GA in his first interview that we saw with LE...I think dude is being completely truthful there...its all over his body language.

 

[txsvicki]

Only one thing about your theory I cannot get past: That horrible smelling car. Did they dump that body in there to leave that smell? yikes

The odor in the car is what I can't get past either with wondering what happened, if there was a mistake or just not knowing that the odor would adsorb into the car even if a body was encased, or could it have been intentional? Maybe the car was to be dumped out of town with the odor but Caylee not in the trunk, but just didn't get done. One thing I now believe though, is that the pool ladder, IMO, was never really found up on the pool. The state proved that there was no call to George at work telling him that it was up on the 16th. Protection of Casey started really early IMO>

 

[Unsolved]

Would there really have been enough sand in the sand box to cover Caylee's body? My daughter never had that much sand in hers, and neither did mine when I was little. And my dad built me a huge one! If I'd have been burried in it, there would have been a large lump in the middle.

Hmmmm, this reminds me in the 2/18/09 doc release of items found at the remains scene they list finding an empty bag of "play sand' (like you put in sand boxes):

 

[shaye]

Would there really have been enough sand in the sand box to cover Caylee's body? My daughter never had that much sand in hers, and neither did mine when I was little. And my dad built me a huge one! If I'd have been burried in it, there would have been a large lump in the middle.

I really wanted to believe, from day 31, that this was an accident. I looked for every way there could have been. But the duct tape really screamed murder to me. Decomp fluids escape from eyes, nose, anus, as well as the mouth. Also, I think it would be pretty hard to duct tape a wet child. I suppose she could have duct taped a dried Caylee, and the fact that the duct tape was in her hair could have kept it in place throughout decomp.

(This is probably TMI, but I once found myself in a situation where I forgot the bra that was supposed to go with my outfit, and resorted to duct tape to hold my "girls" in the proper position. Worked pretty good until the party room got very hot and I started to sweat. Then the tape came off. And I ended up with a nasty rash!)

When the trial started, I once again tried to see this from an accidental point of view. At 1st I didn't think the chloroform was real evidence until Dr. Vass said it was a million times higher than expected. I've had a lot of chemistry, though it's been a long while, and I don't see how normal cleaning products could have created that much. I know they didn't do a proper quantitative analysis, but a qualitative one will show how much chloroform is in there related to other chemicals in cleaning products that people use all the time to clean out their cars. (though I don't think the SA did a proper explanation of this.) And why delete those searches and ONLY those searches. I'm pretty sure that was pointed out in trial, plus the delete date was after KC was out on bail.

And even if KC is arrogant enough to want her day in court to play the victim, I still can't imagine her risking the DP or even LWOP when she could have screamed accident and cover up from day 31. Really, she could have even explained the duct tape as staging a kidnapping because she was so panicked. She could have said, "the body is here and you will find duct tape on her mouth." Though I suppose she figured she would have at least ended up in prison for a good 10 years if that story wasn't believed.

I don't believe GA saw KC and Caylee leave on the 16th. He is either lying, or remembering another date, since after a month it would be pretty hard to have such a detailed memory. So either he is lying to cover up, or there was some other reason he thought he remembered Caylee's clothing. Perhaps the back pack was a favorite, or new and she was proud of it and wanted to show it off to JoJo? Or he and KC had had an argument on another date when she left?

I also remember that CA originally said she found the pool ladder and gate unlocked towards the end of June. So maybe KC went back and created an accidental drowning scene. But then realized decomp was too far along to use that.

I do realize people grieve differently, and that KC could have partied for 31 days. But I can't believe she wouldn't do her partying after a proper funeralfor her daughter... unless something more sinister had happened. And while a body was rotting in her trunk. And I would think if she was wracked with guilt and couldn't deal with Caylee's death, she would have engaged in riskier behavior than she did. Drinking to excess. Maybe starting to use drugs. That is, she would have partied more intensely than she normally had done in the past. Someone would have noticed a difference.

Maybe it was an "intentional accident." Meaning she left the ladder up and intentionally didn't pay attention to Caylee. Or told her that "this once" it was okay to play in the pool without an adult.

Still, why no 911 call? That puts me back at aggrevated child abuse resulting in the death of a child. Even if Caylee had been in the pool for several hours after she died, KC could have covered her behind by saying "I thought she was down for a nap." If Caylee didn't normally nap, she could have explained that by saying Caylee wasn't feeling well that AM. Maybe had a slight fever, or had said her tummy hurt or something. So on that particular AM, she took a nap.

For someone who lies so well, why couldn't KC come up with a good lie to scream accident, even if it wasn't, right then and there? Instead it took her 31 days of lying?

I have to say I think KC left with Caylee after the fight with Cindy and killed her out of spite.

I keep trying to twist this around to look like an accident, and I keep ending up at murder to hurt Cindy.

I have to say that I have done the exact thing many times, tried every way possible to make the accident story fit or wonder why KC didn't just play up the accident story.....I totally believe she left w/Caylee the night of the 15th and killed little Caylee to spite Cindy. I think KC thought a couple of times about playing it off as a accident and changed her mind for several reason, the main one being, she loved messing w/Cindy's head and another being it would interfere w/her Tony Time.

Cindy not seeing or knowing where Caylee was off w/KC somewhere....KC knew it was torturing her mother not seeing her grand baby and then making up all these lies so that Cindy couldn't talk to Caylee. Yep, KC got pleasure for killing Caylee and even more pleasure by Cindy's suffering for those 31 days.

If KC staged an accident and lied her way thru it as always she could of watched CA suffer by mourning the death of Caylee but that wasn't enuff plus that would have put a cramp in KC's partying, she would have had to deal w/acting like she herself was grieving and then would of had to spend more time w/the family consoling each other and going thru the grief process.

That probably would of been the smart thing to do if your trying to get away w/murder but not KC. The last thing she wanted to do was spend anymore time w/her family than she had too especially when she had partying to do. Couldn't miss Tony and the Hot Body Contest.

So, I do think the accident theory crossed her mind briefly and decided to go w/plan B and threw the baby in the trunk and did her thing. With Cindy she just winged it and knew it was hurting her mother and that was the added bonus.

This girl has got out of everything her entire life, I just knew it had all caught up w/her over Caylee's murder but she even beat that....I am convinced that we have not heard or seen the last of her, she will strike again, a person like her is very dangerous especially after walking free w/the world watching. I have no doubt though that her days of falling in a pile of dooky and coming out smelling like roses are over, the next pile of dooky she falls in won't smell of roses it will reek and hopefully, it will stick w/her for eternity!

 

[gngr~snap]

Also, if KC was mollested by GA, that kind of makes me MORE suspicious that she would have harmed Caylee to get revenge on both her parents.

OR she felt like they were trying to control her using Caylee as the pawn.
If there had never been a Caylee KC would have still had trouble getting out of that house.
Or not?
I'm an only child. So is my hubby.
Is it normal for bros to be THAT defensive ?
I mean my dad wan't thrilled with my choice of a mate.
He never yelled at him or treated him like crap. HE SHOULD have!!! lol
I just ended up in the middle.
Come to think of it my parents never liked any of my dates.
I dunno. I ♥ my son n law. But Iv'e known him
since he was 9 and my DD was 6!
childhood sweet♥'s. Big difference.

 

[katydid23]

I have to say that I have done the exact thing many times, tried every way possible to make the accident story fit or wonder why KC didn't just play up the accident story.....I totally believe she left w/Caylee the night of the 15th and killed little Caylee to spite Cindy. I think KC thought a couple of times about playing it off as a accident and changed her mind for several reason, the main one being, she loved messing w/Cindy's head and another being it would interfere w/her Tony Time.

Cindy not seeing or knowing where Caylee was off w/KC somewhere....KC knew it was torturing her mother not seeing her grand baby and then making up all these lies so that Cindy couldn't talk to Caylee. Yep, KC got pleasure for killing Caylee and even more pleasure by Cindy's suffering for those 31 days.

If KC staged an accident and lied her way thru it as always she could of watched CA suffer by mourning the death of Caylee but that wasn't enuff plus that would have put a cramp in KC's partying, she would have had to deal w/acting like she herself was grieving and then would of had to spend more time w/the family consoling each other and going thru the grief process.

That probably would of been the smart thing to do if your trying to get away w/murder but not KC. The last thing she wanted to do was spend anymore time w/her family than she had too especially when she had partying to do. Couldn't miss Tony and the Hot Body Contest.

So, I do think the accident theory crossed her mind briefly and decided to go w/plan B and threw the baby in the trunk and did her thing. With Cindy she just winged it and knew it was hurting her mother and that was the added bonus.

This girl has got out of everything her entire life, I just knew it had all caught up w/her over Caylee's murder but she even beat that....I am convinced that we have not heard or seen the last of her, she will strike again, a person like her is very dangerous especially after walking free w/the world watching. I have no doubt though that her days of falling in a pile of dooky and coming out smelling like roses are over, the next pile of dooky she falls in won't smell of roses it will reek and hopefully, it will stick w/her for eternity!

I agree with all of the above. I think she lashed out at Caylee because of her rage towards Cindy and the threat of the custody battle. And then, on the 16th, she was going to play out a fake accident. But seeing the body was too far gone, she decided to put the duct tape on, and claim a kidnapping. I think she was going to say she was taken in a car jacking or from the yard, BUT FIRST she was going to take advantage of her newfound freedom and party with her beloved Tony for awhile first. By then she just got too lazy and procrastinated and the rest is history.

 

[gngr~snap]

The defense has long since maintained that George sexually abused his daughter.
George shot back at lead defense attorney Jose Baez, "Sir, I never would do anything like that to my daughter."( not -NO! I never touched her.) (not- It pains me to be accused of something I did not do.)
Baez then asked, "You would never admit to it, would you sir?"
George said, "I would never do anything to harm my daughter in that way."
Baez quickly responded, "Only in that way?"(what does that mean? "in that way"? It wasn't abuse I was gentle?)
It was the wording that seemed to raise eyebrows, "only in that way."(I never engaged in fellatio with my daughter )
he never said OUTRIGHT emphatically "No" here.
He did give a no to JA.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/199072/250/George-Anthony-asked-Did-you-molest-Casey

the way this question was answered does leave it open to debate.
At any rate, GA was more animated, adamant and vocal stating he did not put the tape on the cans, than he was when denying that he engaged in an "act" with KC.
moo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I think GA was truthful when he said he last saw Caylee on the morning of June 16, and that she said she was going to see Zanny. At the time of his testimony, he had not spoken to FCA since the grand jury, was being accused of being involved in the death, and didn't know what Casey was going to say if and when she took the stand. He gave the account he remembered, and refused to take a bullet for FCA, which shocked her.

The fact Caylee said she was going to Zanny's indicates to me FCA had the kidnapping story already plotted out. And thus her murder already plotted out. The argument with CA the night before ignited the level of spite necessary to carry out the deed. In fact she would be moving out, and had resolved that Caylee was in the way of her adventure.

When you picture a kidnapped person, what do you see? I see a person with duct tape on their mouth. I think FCA may have pictured this as well, and that she put the duct tape on her mouth to portray this, after she had already died. The heart sticker was to make her feel good about her action, that she was putting Caylee in a better place away from all the pain the world has in it. If the body was found, the sticker could be said to have been put on by Zanny.

My opinion based on the investigation is that FCA chloroformed Caylee. She then put her in the trunk to deal with later.

The shovel incident is still a little baffling, in that burying her in the backyard makes no sense, unless she was planning on pinning the death on another Anthony. I think she hadn't thought this through, then realized it would be better to discard it elsewhere.

 

[Whisperer]

Hmmmm, this reminds me in the 2/18/09 doc release of items found at the remains scene they list finding an empty bag of "play sand' (like you put in sand boxes):

Thank you...I've been looking for that. She had to empty the sand and refill the box up again. Did you notice it used to sit exactly where the cadaver dogs hit. cindy moved it. you can see it on the tape w/Greta. Maybe that is what she used the shovel for..

I've have always felt she put Caylee in there for a day or two. She wouldn't drive across town with a body...not FCA.

 

[aeneas1]

The shovel incident is still a little baffling, in that burying her in the backyard makes no sense, unless she was planning on pinning the death on another Anthony. I think she hadn't thought this through, then realized it would be better to discard it elsewhere.

i think the shovel makes perfect sense in that the anthony's backyard provided a perfect burial location - where casey could go about her business in private, unseen by an inopportune passerby, knowing full well what her parents schedule was. but the task proved too difficult and she scratched it. interesting, there was a program on tonight in which a woman decided to bury a her murdered victim in the las vegas desert, only to discover the ground was too hard - so she threw him back in the trunk of her car and dumped him in a vineyard. no doubt she was sexually abused by her father when a young child....

 

[Whisperer]

I think GA either lied or mis-remembered. On June 9th, FCA told GA that she wouldn't be home that night..that she and Caylee were staying at the nanny's (Ricardo's)

Cindy appears to do all the remembering for the whole family.

 

[Whisperer]

BBM If Caylee had been smothered in the house and kept there until the next day until George left for work THEN put in the sandbox, decomposition would have already started and the cavader dogs would have hit inside the house which they did not.

To my kge, the cadaver dogs were never brought into the house.