The case for murder

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The forum confuses me, I don't know where to post things, but I am sure this has been answered...is the ME who handled R's case the ME for San Diego County? Or someplace else? And isn't it up to him/her to determine manner of death, rather than LE? Are people who believe R was murdered thinking that the ME was pressured by LE to declare this a suicide, or that he/she was "in" on the "cover-up"? I am just wondering about this...as far as I know, the ME always has the final say on manner of death.

I have posted a link to a case in which a young woman was murdered (by strangulation) and the murder was staged as suicide by a man who apparently believed that young woman was pregnant and did not want to have the responsibility. The case was ruled suicide and closed. He then went to the police and confessed describing how he did it. He then plead guilty to murder. So obviously there was no problem in changing the cause of death from suicide to murder, otherwise how he could have plead guilty?

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Killer-s-Passion-confession-I-was-like-a-1957898.php
 
Some items had Rebecca's finger print(s) on them, some had dna. Was it blood, skin cells? And were the items with dna without fingerprints?

If so, how did they get in the room, layed out on the rug? Get used to paint the door, etc?
 
I have posted a link to a case in which a young woman was murdered (by strangulation) and the murder was staged as suicide by a man who apparently believed that young woman was pregnant and did not want to have the responsibility. The case was ruled suicide and closed. He then went to the police and confessed describing how he did it. He then plead guilty to murder. So obviously there was no problem in changing the cause of death from suicide to murder, otherwise how he could have plead guilty?

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Killer-s-Passion-confession-I-was-like-a-1957898.php

I kow suicides have been changed to murder before; my question was more about this particular ME and if people thinking this was a murder believe he was working with LE and agreed to give that ruling.
 
I kow suicides have been changed to murder before; my question was more about this particular ME and if people thinking this was a murder believe he was working with LE and agreed to give that ruling.

I am pretty sure in a case such as RN's LE and ME have to communicate prior to making an official ruling for a cause of death. I can not envision how it would work any other way. I mean, ME can rule the cause of death to be strangulation/hanging, but wouldn't he need additional info from LE to rule it suicide or homicide?
 
Some items had Rebecca's finger print(s) on them, some had dna. Was it blood, skin cells? And were the items with dna without fingerprints?

If so, how did they get in the room, layed out on the rug? Get used to paint the door, etc?

Excellent points Sunnie!

From the PC Power Point:

Fingerprints from the guest room entry door jamb, balcony door, the large knife, and the bed leg next to the rope were from Rebecca.

DNA profiles from the victim's bindings (hands and feet), the rope around her neck, the rope attached to the footboard of the bed, and the small knife were only from Rebecca.


http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/rz.pdf

I imagine that fingerprints would be difficult if not impossible to lift from a braided surface (rope), so I'm not surprised that no fingerprints were reported to have been found on the rope.

I'm curious about the lack of DNA on the guest room door jamb, the balcony door, the large knife, and the bed leg - especially since all these surfaces contained RZ's fingerprints.

I'm also curious about the lack of fingerprints on the small knife. RZ's DNA was found on it. If her DNA was found on it, why were there no fingerprints on it (even partial, smudged fingerprints)?

The most curious of all, IMO, is that there was no mention in the Power Point presentation of RZ's fingerprints or DNA on the tube of black paint, or on either of the paint brushes, or on the white plastic trash bag that was found covering the tube of paint. Very curious.
 
I also posted this in the "What Happened" thread ...

Did someone or a couple of someones plant her footprints and then lift her and throw her feet first over the balcony railing her head hitting the outer side of that railing on the way down or in the recoil back toward the balcony thereby causing the lacerations on her head? I do not think she hopped, I do not think she got herself by herself over that railing.

Did the police in their Briefing admit that the boot print in the balcony dirt was one of their officers? If they did not this opens up many other possibilities. Thanks in advance for answering.
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The LE did admit the boot print was from their officer.
 
I also posted this in the "What Happened" thread ...

Did someone or a couple of someones plant her footprints and then lift her and throw her feet first over the balcony railing her head hitting the outer side of that railing on the way down or in the recoil back toward the balcony thereby causing the lacerations on her head? I do not think she hopped, I do not think she got herself by herself over that railing.

Did the police in their Briefing admit that the boot print in the balcony dirt was one of their officers? If they did not this opens up many other possibilities. Thanks in advance for answering.
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They either stated in the PC or it was in one of their investigative reports that the bootprint did belong to one of the officers. Seems strange that only ONE was there. Seems hinky to me. :waitasec:
 
I believe I can see a similar boot print on the carpet next to the red rope in one of the photos.
 
I also posted this in the "What Happened" thread ...

Did someone or a couple of someones plant her footprints and then lift her and throw her feet first over the balcony railing her head hitting the outer side of that railing on the way down or in the recoil back toward the balcony thereby causing the lacerations on her head? I do not think she hopped, I do not think she got herself by herself over that railing.

Did the police in their Briefing admit that the boot print in the balcony dirt was one of their officers? If they did not this opens up many other possibilities. Thanks in advance for answering.
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Yes, they said it was one of their officers boot prints and also that they recovered the boot.
 
There is only an 11 inch disturbance of dust on the railing. She definitely did not go over that balcony in a horizontal position.

No and that isn't what the ME said. He said her injuries were consistent with her going over in an angular position. Not straight down vertically.

IMO
 
I think the message was painted at a height of about 58", based on the door knob height (36") and the door height (a standard interior door is 80"). That leaves 44" inches of door above the door knob. It looks like the message was painted about 22" above the door knob (about halfway up the upper portion of the door).

Since LE stated they didn't believe the message was a suicide note, I see no reason not to have released a photo of it.

Because it was a message left in a private home and LE knows it wasnt left for the public to see. I think they tried to keep it confidential for the families sake.

IMO
 
No and that isn't what the ME said. He said her injuries were consistent with her going over in an angular position. Not straight down vertically.

IMO

Ocean,

BBM I'm trying to visualize what "angular position" she would use to only distrub 11 inches of dust. I don't see her sitting on her butt and falling over sideways with her hand and feet tied (wouldn't more dust be disturbed).

I guess I need to go and re-read the autopsy again....don't recall what part of her torso was bruised and/or dirty.

This site might help some, but it only confuses me more....I am not a physicist!!!

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node44.html


score
 
Ocean,

BBM I'm trying to visualize what "angular position" she would use to only distrub 11 inches of dust. I don't see her sitting on her butt and falling over sideways with her hand and feet tied (wouldn't more dust be disturbed).

I guess I need to go and re-read the autopsy again....don't recall what part of her torso was bruised and/or dirty.

This site might help some, but it only confuses me more....I am not a physicist!!!

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node44.html


score

Ditto this- I honestly am having a hard time visualizing this. What does angular mean? It can't mean horizontal because of the 11 inches. Does it mean vertical but on her side? Doesn't the last toe print disprove that since, if I recall correctly, it isn't diagonal but straight back?
 
Facial congestion, broken hyoid bone on left side of the neck and broken cartilage in the left superior horn of the thyroid. There are petechiae present also. All of these signs are indicitive of strangulation, not hanging.

BBM

I dont think that is a 100% absolute, imo.

Violent Asphyxia Deaths

Definition:It is Asphyxial death caused by suspension of the body by a ligature around the neck, the constricting force being the weight of the body.Classification (types) of hanging:A) It may be either complete or partial:Complete: the feet are not touching the ground. Partial: the feet are touching the ground.B) It may be either typical or atypical:Typical: the ligature is above the thyroid cartilage and runs symmetrically upwards onboth sides of the neck to the occipital region. Atypical: any other position of the ligature.
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Page 2
Mechanism of death:1. Cerebral anoxia: is due to bilateral occlusion of the carotid arteries.It is the most common cause.2- Cerebral congestion: is due to occlusion of the neck veins.3- Asphyxia: is due to direct compression of the air passages or lifting of the larynxto be closed by the root of the tongue.Reflex vagal inhibition: is due to stimulation of baroreceptors situated in the carotid sinuses and the carotid body When death occurs as a result of vagal inhibition (reflex cardiac arrest),Asphyxial signs will be absent. If death results from a cause other than vagalinhibition, Asphyxial features (already described) will be present. However, in any case, the following signs are also seen:Externally:The neck is stretched. The face is pale (veins and arteries are occluded) or bluish and congested (only the veins are occluded). The rest of the body is cyanosed. Ligature mark:Shape:It is a depression at the site of the ligature. In the bed of the depression abrasions,contusions and fibers from the ligature may be found. Situation:Above the level of the thyroid cartilage.Asymmetrical: (being deepest opposite the point of suspension).Oblique: sloping upwards and incomplete (if fixed noose).Transverse and complete (if running noose).
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The pattern of the ligature:May be imprinted on the neck as a pressure abrasion.Internally:Fracture of the hyoid bone (outward fracture).Petechial hemorrhage and ecchymosis of the subcutaneous tissue under the ligature. Absence of other cause of death.Is it suicidal, homicidal, or accidental hanging? Suicidal: (most common):Circumstantial evidence (history of failure).Absence of signs of struggle. Presence of signs of previous suicidal attempts. Homicidal: (very rare):Circumstantial evidence (history of threat). Presence of signs of struggle. Evidence of poisoning by drink or drugs. Accidental: (rare):Children playing with ropes. falling and hanged by ropes.
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Ligature strangulation: A violent Asphyxial death caused by constricting the neck by a ligature.Mechanism of death:Asphyxia: from compression of air passages. Cerebral congestion or apoplexy: Reflex vagal inhibitiono Cerebral anoxia:Combination of any of the above:Autopsy appearances:On postmortem examination Asphyxial features (previously described) will only be evident in cases where death was due to any cause other than reflex vagalinhibition. Asphyxial features are usually absent when death results from reflex vagalinhibition. However, in any case the following signs are also seen:Externally:The face is either pale or bluish and congested. The rest of the body is cyanosed.The tongue may be protruded, swollen and bitten.Ligature mark:Shape: as in hanging.Situation:At the level of thyroid cartilage or below.Symmetrical (the force is equal all around the neck).Transverse and complete (this is the usual).May be oblique (if the victim has been dragged by the ligature).

Internally:Neck muscles may be injured. Fracture of thyroid cartilage may occur. Fracture of hyoid bone.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...hyoid+bone+break+in+a+suicide+hanging&ct=clnk
 
Because it was a message left in a private home and LE knows it wasnt left for the public to see. I think they tried to keep it confidential for the families sake.

IMO

If LE was so concerned with protecting the family and ostensibly RZ, why did they leave her naked body in full view of media helicopters & neighbors on roof tops for 12 hours?

Was RZ's body left in the courtyard for the public to see? Apparently, by LE's actions, they believed so, otherwise they would have found a way to shield her body from view.

I find it outrageous that a woman's deceased body is allowed to be viewed by the public via the media, but a message on a door that is characterized as something other than a suicide note is withheld from the media & the public.

RZ's immediate family members have discussed the message on the door since Sept. 2, and have also disputed the wording of it, and have disputed that it was Rebecca who wrote it.
 
But didn't the AR say she went over the balcony in a non-vertical position, meaning horizontal, or on an angle of sorts?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahaus-death-ritualistic-killing-expert/story?id=14463695

No and that isn't what the ME said. He said her injuries were consistent with her going over in an angular position. Not straight down vertically.
IMO

Although it was not stated explicitly it’s pretty clear that they are suggesting that on the tips of her toes, RN bent forward over the railing, disrupting 11 inches of dirt, and dropped down.

From the AR:
Toe prints, apparently from the right foot, were close to the balcony railing and in line with an area of dirt clearing on the top of the balcony railing and in line with an area of dirt clearing on the top of the balcony railing and with the point at which the rope hung over the balcony.

From the PowerPoint:
2637y0x.jpg


The only actual reference to a non-vertical position within the AR itself is the following:
“The distribution and number of injuries on and within the neck and the atypical nature of the furrow are consistent with a drop from that height, especially if she reached the full extent of the rope at somewhat of an angle.”

Even though I addressed this in a previous post, I should have included it here.
The majority of the internal neck injuries were on the left, which may be explained be the knot of the noose being toward the right of the neck as is suggested in the autopsy report.
“The location of the knot on the right lateral neck corresponds to the apex of ligature furrows.”
A knot on the right will tilt the body and concentrate injuries on the left side of the neck.

j6pxt3.jpg


o752j8.jpg


Despite the fact that he made no mention of it in the AR, the ME said:
"Because there was evidence that she went over the balcony in a non-vertical position, she may have struck her head on the balcony on the way down."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahaus-death-ritualistic-killing-expert/story?id=14463695

Evidence, what evidence???
The ME is free to say whatever he wishes, however, I think it’s time that he backs up what he says with either an explanation from the autopsy report, or with a plausible reconstruction of the motion of Rebecca’s alleged headlong fall to her death.
They offered a detailed model of the death of Max.
It’s time for law enforcement and the medical examiner to stop bluffing with empty rhetoric, let’s see the explanation for 4 subgaleal hemorrhages, the extensive injuries to RN’s back and at the same time explain the absence of injuries to her face and torso.

The locations of the head trauma as described in the autopsy report is as follows.
(Unfortunately, because the regions occupied by the lobes of the brain are fairly large, the illustration can only offer approximate locations.)

wgz19i.jpg
 
Cynic, I commend you on a job well done. I have been wanting someone to do this. Thank you so much. Excellent work, yes, I agree, brilliant!:great:
 
Do four separate injuries to her head suggest she was hit by something or hit something four separate times?
 
I'm trying to visualize what "angular position" she would use to only distrub 11 inches of dust. I don't see her sitting on her butt and falling over sideways with her hand and feet tied (wouldn't more dust be disturbed).
I'll bet the police and the ME tried to visualize it too, and came up empty handed. That's why they have offered no reconstruction of their theory of how she fell.
I guess I need to go and re-read the autopsy again....don't recall what part of her torso was bruised and/or dirty.
There were no abrasions or bruises on her torso.
 
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