Dr. Phil w/George and Cindy Anthony Air Date 9/13 and 9/14 2011 Thead # 2

[LambChop]

Sorry, I meant the post that talks about KC shaking Caylee to death, then driving around wondering what to do..... I thought I had it in my quote..... sorry!

Oh, it was. I was just saying it's a possibility but it still would not explain the chloroform in the trunk. Nothing to be sorry about. Just making a comment. LOL jmo

 

[LambChop]

I agree, in part. The SA had no logical reason to go after George for anything. Going after George makes no sense. It was Casey the SA was after, and then Cindy only after she lied. If anything, the SA tried to help George. I think JB did lie, but I also think that Cindy is not stupid either. I think she was willing to throw George under the bus to a certain point. Casey has always been more important to Cindy than George. If someone had to go down to free Casey, it was going to be George, not Cindy.

I think she and Baez plotted together - she would lie and manipulate, and he would bring up molestation allegations against George in the OS only. Baez was never going to prove those allegations, so that made it okay with Cindy. George is the scapegoat when things go wrong in that family, and it was no different at trial. And the sad part is, he continues to accept that role. All his denials mean nothing when he won't get himself out of a bad situation and make his life better. No one can do that for him; he can only do it himself, and he won't.

What I would want to know if I were GA is if this was the meeting that CA and ML attended at JB's than why wasn't GA permitted to go. ML represents GA also and if ML excluded GA he should be ashamed of himself. GA had a right to be there. CA should have stuck up for GA and not bought the "well, SA will be going after GA about this." It never happened nor was it ever going to happy. JB used CA and GA. jmo

 

[Remove the covering]

I also believe that could have been her initial intent, thus the flurry of phone calls. However when those calls went unanswered she changed her game plan and went with the Zanny ruse. That is about the only explanation I have ever been able to figure out for those calls.

MOO

Those calls bother me, too! I've felt like they were the only evidence of the panic that could be associated with an accidental drowning or an intentional accidental drowning. I think you may be right.

Another idea I've considered is that FCA could not bear to sit idly while her child was struggling for her life- chloroformed and suffocated and helpless. She needed something to occupy her, so she made a series of distracting phone calls to pass the time. Horrific.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Guys we should remember that these two are both the victims of a dangerous psychopath.

IMO..Thank God you are here to keep me grounded!

It's easy for me to work myself into knots about these two. I truly believe they were victims but made a choice to protect their daughter as opposed to finding the truth..respectively....:wave:

 

[Solace]

If you're sure, then where exactly? Which page of which transcript?

You have to do a search. There are not that many transcripts.

 

[Pegatha]

You're right. You and I rarely do disagree.

I'm not yet ready to trust that Lee is any different than any other Anthony. His speech at what should have been his nieces memorial does not allow me to trust Lee for as far as I can throw him.

And I still think his manner while being questioned by the SA shows where his loyalties are aligned. And it certainly isn't Caylee's. But I also know two people can watch/hear the same thing and interpret differently. I personally interpret Lee's testimony as being pulled from him. He was VERY VERY unwilling to testify at all for the state but his testimony when being questioned by JB really flowed very well, almost too well. He sounded very eager to assist the Defense in any way, with the exception of admitting to any molestation by himself.

This is how I feel about Lee also. And wasn't he was given immunity for something early on? I just think he has stayed out of it almost too much. Almost like he is afraid if he says something it could even incriminate him. His "promise" from the memorial creeps me out. If anyone helped Casey with the coverup/disposal, I think it would have been Lee. The whole family dynamic just sickens me and fascinates me. I can't turn away and I want to so very badly.

 

[Just K]

There were Four things that never got brought into the trial.

Home Depot Video...what did it show? Why/how did the DT get it kept out.

The felon's text messages to Amy about the squirrels and those to & from TL all through the night before Caylee died.

cell phone activity charts for the week around Caylee's going missing...especially those showing the rare silence on Monday afternoon just after the Flurry of Calls.

The Computer Tech Guy who gave an affidavit stating that he saw Caylee leaving with but trailing behind, by many feet, the felon at the box store and he was certain it was them because she had been in his store with Caylee...just days before. The cell phone pings did have her driving back & forth, during the flurry of calls, just before the radio silence. Then about 2.5 hours later her she's "date" with TL.

 

[Solace]

I agree, in part. The SA had no logical reason to go after George for anything. Going after George makes no sense. It was Casey the SA was after, and then Cindy only after she lied. If anything, the SA tried to help George. I think JB did lie, but I also think that Cindy is not stupid either. I think she was willing to throw George under the bus to a certain point. Casey has always been more important to Cindy than George. If someone had to go down to free Casey, it was going to be George, not Cindy.

I think she and Baez plotted together - she would lie and manipulate, and he would bring up molestation allegations against George in the OS only. Baez was never going to prove those allegations, so that made it okay with Cindy. George is the scapegoat when things go wrong in that family, and it was no different at trial. And the sad part is, he continues to accept that role. All his denials mean nothing when he won't get himself out of a bad situation and make his life better. No one can do that for him; he can only do it himself, and he won't.

I don't believe for a second that the state was going after George. In fact, I think he had a good relationship with Ashton and it is obvious the way Ashton treated him on the stand. I think Ashton said they are going to say you molested your daughter and I am going to bring you on the stand immediately after Baez does his opening statement and we will refute it. I just want you to keep you temper in tact. Don't let them get you angry.

And that is exactly what happened. George was great on the stand that day.

 

[marge_rita]

I agree, in part. The SA had no logical reason to go after George for anything. Going after George makes no sense. It was Casey the SA was after, and then Cindy only after she lied. If anything, the SA tried to help George. I think JB did lie, but I also think that Cindy is not stupid either. I think she was willing to throw George under the bus to a certain point. Casey has always been more important to Cindy than George. If someone had to go down to free Casey, it was going to be George, not Cindy.

I think she and Baez plotted together - she would lie and manipulate, and he would bring up molestation allegations against George in the OS only. Baez was never going to prove those allegations, so that made it okay with Cindy. George is the scapegoat when things go wrong in that family, and it was no different at trial. And the sad part is, he continues to accept that role. All his denials mean nothing when he won't get himself out of a bad situation and make his life better. No one can do that for him; he can only do it himself, and he won't.

You're right, the SA had no logical reason to go after GA. But they sure as hell did and the jurors bought what the SA sold. That wasn't logical for the jurors. A case of murder and lies and a killer was set free.


What happened to the justice system in the US?
imo

 

[logicalgirl]

You're right. You and I rarely do disagree.

I'm not yet ready to trust that Lee is any different than any other Anthony. His speech at what should have been his nieces memorial does not allow me to trust Lee for as far as I can throw him.

And I still think his manner while being questioned by the SA shows where his loyalties are aligned. And it certainly isn't Caylee's. But I also know two people can watch/hear the same thing and interpret differently. I personally interpret Lee's testimony as being pulled from him. He was VERY VERY unwilling to testify at all for the state but his testimony when being questioned by JB really flowed very well, almost too well. He sounded very eager to assist the Defense in any way, with the exception of admitting to any molestation by himself.

First, the Caylee memorial was what - two and a half years ago? I saw a man who was very conflicted and laden with guilt and completely torn..

At the trial, I believe Lee met with Baez to tell him he would argue about when and whether CA sent someone to look for Caylee's body. I think he also discussed what he could be asked. But I didn't see him as argumentative until JA made his dumb remark...and then Lee just shut down the SA. Eager? Lee wanted to be anywhere than near his sister, the SA or the Defense. IMO Lee knows his sister is guilty and I suspect that relationship is irreparable, despite whatever Cindy is spewing..

And while I'm at this - I think Baez's "messages" from FCA are complete "carp" also. That Baez invented.

 

[MsMacGyver]

Those calls bother me, too! I've felt like they were the only evidence of the panic that could be associated with an accidental drowning or an intentional accidental drowning. I think you may be right.

Another idea I've considered is that FCA could not bear to sit idly while her child was struggling for her life- chloroformed and suffocated and helpless. She needed something to occupy her, so she made a series of distracting phone calls to pass the time. Horrific.

I think this was in the first interview..

KC called 6 times in 4 minutes

CA...she called my work phone, cell phone. I was in a meeting and I could tell in her voice something was going on. I wish she would have just blurted out, mom I need you.

Dr.P..was she upset, was she crying?

CA..I can't remember

Dr.P..if your baby had just died, you call until you get someone. until you reach someone. Then you say something terrible has just happened, I need you now.

CA..if she was asking for help I know I would have dropped everything.

Now I think someone said CA had talked to the felon that day and she told CA her and Caylee were going to spend the night at Zannys.

 

[logicalgirl]

This is how I see it too. I think George has been "all over" Casey from the beginning, and she had her whole life of being busted by him to fuel her desire to bring him down.

Cindy may have thwarted George at every turn, but Casey knew he tried. George was her "enemy" from the very beginning.

My ex-husband is a small time sociopath/narcissist, able to go long periods of time successfully pretending to be "normal". I was a well educated and successful person before I met him, with a couple of very barbarian teenagers and other life stressors that made me vulnerable to a man who said "I just want to take care of you, I just want to be a Dad again."

Within seven years, I was agoraphobic, completely isolated and without a shred of my normal self-confidence. He never laid a hand on me.

As much as I HATE HATE HATE to admit it, his Chinese water torture put downs and contempt for me reduced me into a person I can hardly recognize as myself. I was a PSYCH NURSE for God's sake!! And no slouch in the brains department!

I see myself in George in many ways. I, too, became dishonest and capitulated to my ex out of sheer exhaustion (he was relentless). George has had many more years of this than I did.

I hold myself responsible for the appalling things I did, lied about, etc etc, and I hold George responsible for his, too. He is, after all, a grown man, an adult. But, there is a definite effect on a person who spends years living intimately with a spouse such as Cindy Anthony and God help him, his daughter Casey.

It reduces you to your lowest common denominator.

I understand how George just sits there and goes along with it all. I understand why he does it. It doesn't excuse him any more than it excused me. But it is a common manifestation of abused spouses, and you don't need to be smacked around either.

I'm a member of a very active community of DV survivors. George's "story" is not somehow unique to George, it is actually common to abused spouses, male or female. In spite of being the "abused one" we aren't lily white victims, either. We are capable of atrocities, too, very capable.

Thank you for your very open and from the heart post.

Even though the case seems to be turned on it's head and flipped inside out since CA and GA did their three interviews, I wanted to say one thing.

If I was CA, I would be very afraid. I think GA is the type of guy who will one day have had enough of his wife. I fear he will buy a gun and shoot her one day soon.

 

[katydid23]

Those calls bother me, too! I've felt like they were the only evidence of the panic that could be associated with an accidental drowning or an intentional accidental drowning. I think you may be right.

Another idea I've considered is that FCA could not bear to sit idly while her child was struggling for her life- chloroformed and suffocated and helpless. She needed something to occupy her, so she made a series of distracting phone calls to pass the time. Horrific.

I think those calls were made in a panic to make certain that neither of her parents were on their way home from work. She needed to make sure they were both still at work so she could clean up the evidence.

 

[Aedrys]

What I would want to know if I were GA is if this was the meeting that CA and ML attended at JB's than why wasn't GA permitted to go. ML represents GA also and if ML excluded GA he should be ashamed of himself. GA had a right to be there. CA should have stuck up for GA and not bought the "well, SA will be going after GA about this." It never happened nor was it ever going to happy. JB used CA and GA. jmo

Because Casey knew George would never go along with any accusations whatsoever. Casey was seeking mom's permission only to go after George. I am sure Casey, on many occasions before Caylee was murdered, went to Cindy to get Cindy to team up with her against George. There is no way George could be at that meeting. The fact that Cindy was willing to meet with Baez without George speaks volumes to me. Cindy should have protested such a meeting and never have agreed to a meeting without George.

That had to set off alarm bells for George too, but he never insisted on being there either. I think on some level, he knew what was inevitably coming. He wasn't okay with it, he probably never will be, but he accepts it on some level as his lot in life. He's the bad father, and any imperfection in his family's life is his fault, even if he denies it publicly. It's a state of mind Cindy and maybe even his mother has trained and ingrained in him for fifty years or so.

But Cindy didn't protest and went to that meeting. George had to know why on some level that he wasn't allowed. He isn't dumb either. Sadly, it was time to let George be the fall guy again for Casey, and without his permission, as usual. Cindy gave permission to Baez to say those horrible things about George in the OS, then sweetly lied to George that she had no idea Baez was going to say those things. With George then protesting his innocence, the show went on, and it worked like a charm.

Cindy and Casey won the game again, at the expense of George, once again. Everyone in that dysfunctional family played their part, even Lee. He let his dad fall, and in the process, saved himself from George's fate. I think his near admission on the stand was to prove his loyalty to Casey so she would get Baez to stop going after Lee. Lee knows what he has to do to get out of Casey and Cindy's crossfire. The only one who was used was George. He was never going to lie for Casey or go down on his own for her, and that played right into the DT's hands.

Also, Cindy is never used by anyone - she is the user and abuser, not the used. She has trained Casey to be the same way, and trained her boys to be the way they are. I even think she's trained Lee to not be like George, or he'll suffer the same scapegoat fate as George.

That smirk at the verdict said it all - Cindy won again because Cindy always wins her way.

 

[RR0004]

I didn't watch, so I'm not sure, but it sounds like George is representing that he was surprised at hearing the opening statement? If that is correct, that tells us even more about Cindy. Who could possibly hear such a horrible thing about your husband that was going to be made public, and not tell him? If the defense team called her in and told her two or three weeks before the trial, she would have had plenty of opportunity to prepare George. How can George not understand how low on her list of loyalties he sits?

The way I understood it, it was 2 weeks drowning theory...one week (as told to George by the prosecution) it was George in the cross hairs strategy.

 

[runsdeep]

This is how I see it too. I think George has been "all over" Casey from the beginning, and she had her whole life of being busted by him to fuel her desire to bring him down.

Cindy may have thwarted George at every turn, but Casey knew he tried. George was her "enemy" from the very beginning.

My ex-husband is a small time sociopath/narcissist, able to go long periods of time successfully pretending to be "normal". I was a well educated and successful person before I met him, with a couple of very barbarian teenagers and other life stressors that made me vulnerable to a man who said "I just want to take care of you, I just want to be a Dad again."

Within seven years, I was agoraphobic, completely isolated and without a shred of my normal self-confidence. He never laid a hand on me.

As much as I HATE HATE HATE to admit it, his Chinese water torture put downs and contempt for me reduced me into a person I can hardly recognize as myself. I was a PSYCH NURSE for God's sake!! And no slouch in the brains department!

I see myself in George in many ways. I, too, became dishonest and capitulated to my ex out of sheer exhaustion (he was relentless). George has had many more years of this than I did.

I hold myself responsible for the appalling things I did, lied about, etc etc, and I hold George responsible for his, too. He is, after all, a grown man, an adult. But, there is a definite effect on a person who spends years living intimately with a spouse such as Cindy Anthony and God help him, his daughter Casey.

It reduces you to your lowest common denominator.

I understand how George just sits there and goes along with it all. I understand why he does it. It doesn't excuse him any more than it excused me. But it is a common manifestation of abused spouses, and you don't need to be smacked around either.

I'm a member of a very active community of DV survivors. George's "story" is not somehow unique to George, it is actually common to abused spouses, male or female. In spite of being the "abused one" we aren't lily white victims, either. We are capable of atrocities, too, very capable.

at some point in life, one get tired of started fresh with new people. with all that this family has endured i wouldnt blame either ca or ga for just wanting to settle down and make it work. only the 2 of them can comprehend the magnitude of their experiences.

 

[Solace]

There were Four things that never got brought into the trial.

Home Depot Video...what did it show? Why/how did the DT get it kept out.

The felon's text messages to Amy about the squirrels and those to & from TL all through the night before Caylee died.

cell phone activity charts for the week around Caylee's going missing...especially those showing the rare silence on Monday afternoon just after the Flurry of Calls.

The Computer Tech Guy who gave an affidavit stating that he saw Caylee leaving with but trailing behind, by many feet, the felon at the box store and he was certain it was them because she had been in his store with Caylee...just days before. The cell phone pings did have her driving back & forth, during the flurry of calls, just before the radio silence. Then about 2.5 hours later her she's "date" with TL.

They brought in the texts re squirrel to Amy.

 

[Just K]

I think those calls were made in a panic to make certain that neither of her parents were on their way home from work. She needed to make sure they were both still at work so she could clean up the evidence.

I've always thought that all of those calls were her desperate attempt to get someone to babysit so she could have that "special" date with TL. One of those many calls was to Jessie G, too. When she realized that she was stuck with Caylee, I believe she snapped, raged on Caylee and killed her...

I believe that computer guy who says he saw them at the box store and that little Caylee was many feet behind the felon as she exited the automatic doors.

 

[Solace]

at some point in life, one get tired of started fresh with new people. with all that this family has endured i wouldnt blame either ca or ga for just wanting to settle down and make it work. only the 2 of them can comprehend the magnitude of their experiences.

I thought that until I heard her say "what were we going to do (with Caylee) anyway. (Regarding her being dumped in the swamp).

Maybe George is so use to living with crazy that he is fine with it. When she started crying after Dr. Phil looked at her in amazment and called her on "what about Caylee", George put his hand on Cindy's knee.

Also, when asked about her stealing, George said yes 20 from me, gas, etc. It was more in the realm of thousands, so they are both lying about this. If you are going to say I think my daughter sedated her and left her in the woods, then why not say she was stealing hundreds from my wife's account. I just answered my own question - they did not want to give themselves away to Phil as completely ignoring the situation at hand. If they had said she was stealing hundreds each month just for her phone alone, Phil would have jumped on them. Still lying.

 

[Remove the covering]

I agree..What I thought was interesting is CA went alone. Then she went to Lee, and last but not least GA. Speaks volumes to me. It could tell me that Lee is the head of the household figure, might say GA has a temper and CA didn't want to tell him alone. I believe CA was told at this meeting what the defense OS was going to be.
Why did CA go to Lee first?

It is easier to manipulate one person at a time. Isolate Cindy, make her feel flattered to be a favorite, an insider, a confidant. She will disseminate the message to Lee and George with the correct personalized spin to make it most palatable to them it can be. Baez timed this revelation to Cindy so that she'd be grateful to the defense and Casey at trial. Sooner and her gratitude might have dissipated, later and she might be unpredictable.

FCA tried to lie to an audience of one as often as possible for the same reason. The lie can be crafted to the person, and layered with flattery.