Conrad Murray trial -Day three.

[Isabelle]

All I can say to that is WOW, if that is proven to be true. If he did that, that sounds like another attempt at a cover up to me. (i.e. not wanting the death to have occurred on his watch but instead wanted it to seem to have happened at the hospital instead).

The Murray thinking he felt a pulse is a very common tactic. Helps keep the patient from "dying on me"!

 

[Talina]

TY.

Since Murray refused to call a TOD at the mansion the official TOD would be when the ER doctors had tried every thing humanly possible to bring Michael back. The ER doctor testified in the PH they never saw any signs of life.

But it is very evident by the testimony already that MJ was dead before the EMTs even arrived. IIRC one of the EMTs felt he had been dead at least 20 minutes or longer......possibly up to an hour. Even Chernoff said MJ died instantly but of course that is to lessen the reason for not calling 911.

I think Murray set up the propofol around 10:40 am and walked away. I believe he was out of the room for much longer than two minutes. He said MJ had not been able to sleep that night and he is sitting there yapping on the phone right in the same room for 47 minutes?? :waitasec: I don't think so. I think the propofol just flooded his system and saturated it and it immediately caused him to go into respiratory failure and cardiac arrest and he died as soon as his body was intoxicated by the powerful amount which probably didn't take but a minute or two especially with Murray already giving him powerful other respiratory suppressors. JMO

Like Dr. Gupta said today. When someone is found not breathing the first thing anyone does is call 911 for assistance because the EMTs have life saving equipment.

Dr. Murray was cloaked in secrecy. Even the security guards didn't know at first what was really wrong.

IMO

The more I watch the testimony it appears to me that even until maybe at the hospital when Dr.Murray wanted to remove the "cream" from the home and then a day or so later did the security team realize the significance of some of the activities going on in that bedroom the morning of his death.

The security teams own testimony has shown us that they were rarely in the house and even then not upstairs. How could they have possibly known what the heck was going on with Dr. Murray.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

AMEN Talina
This sits squarely right on the defendant's shoulders. No doubt about it and shame on DT but the jury will see it for what it is.

TOD was called at 1426 but I have never read a liver temp. Of course levidity can be played around with. Body temp - such as blankets and heat in the room. Defendant would not let the ER DR call TOD on the phone.

jmho

Yes, I thought of that and this bed looked to be a feather mattress maybe and the comforter was very thick so MJ would just sink into this material which would help to push the lividity back plus the room could have been warm too which also slows it down.

IIRC, one of the EMTs testified that his feet was already showing some bluing.

IMO

 

[Talina]

The Murray thinking he felt a pulse is a very common tactic. Helps keep the patient from "dying on me"!

I can see that happening in a setting where the doctor is frantically doing everything he possibly can do and just does not want to give up. However, given the circumstances we are seeing testified to in this case, I'm not any where near convinced that was Dr. Murray's reason.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I can see that happening in a setting where the doctor is frantically doing everything he possibly can do and just does not want to give up. However, given the circumstances we are seeing testified to in this case, I'm not any where near convinced that was Dr. Murray's reason.

This was all for show.

That is why he came down the stars and left his patient. That is why he was waiting with his hands on the banister railing when Alberto came in. He wasnt in the room frantically trying to save his patient. He knew without a shadow of a doubt imo that MJ was long dead and never coming back.

So he needed an audience so he could say someone saw him trying to save Michael.

It really is sickening how underhanded and devious he was.

IMO

 

[doubt]

i think cm was an idiot and fool.

i think he was just as affected and smitten by mj as it seems many a poster on this thread is.

i think it is easy to pick apart the actions of criminal defendants, and even more so when the trial at hand involves the death of one of the most gifted artists ever to walk the face the earth.

i think it could have been any number of docs at the helm when this travesty occurred.

i think arnie klein is being let off the hook bc of his ties to mj's children.

i think mj's house was full of people who would not dare risk their job by stepping outside the parameters of their contracted job description....whether it put their employer's life at risk or not. i think that is important to recognize.

i think cm should have called 911. i think as soon as every other staff member got wind of a problem they too should have called 911. i think people should be alarmed and disturbed to hear of, for example, a chef who hears of an emergency, runs to get a 12 yo, and then goes back to cooking, cell phone in her pocket....not at the idea of a defense attorney asking about it.

i think cm knew he was sunk the moment he knew mj had died on his watch....and the worst of the sinking and the biggest thing to fear had nothing to do with the justice system.

i think what some call his "covering up" could very well have been his attempts to preserve at least a shred of decency for a man whom, by all accounts, he was very fond of.

i think cm was negligent. i think cm was under pressure. i think cm was weak. i think cm was bought. i think cm was used. i do not think cm should ever practice medicine again.

i think cm was chosen to be the personal physician of mj by very intelligent, powerful people...because they knew he was in a vulnerable position.

i think mj's family, his business associates, every person who took the stage at the staples center, standing up in the name of their beloved, gone-too-soon michael, should have stood up TO him years ago, long before the cameras were there to capture their undying love for all of eternity. i think they all failed him. i think he failed himself.

i think this trial is a crock of bs, as produced by the powers-that-be as was that memorial, as is any decent hollywood show.

i think people will be happy when cm is judged guilty and the issue of boutique docs doping up and killing the most sensitive, talented among us will thereafter be swept back under the rug....just like the city of la wants it to be. i think that in itself is a crime.

i think mj deserved better.

like i said.....likely not popular here. oh well.

 

[EPfan]

I would like to just say as far as CPR is concerned.
I have my CPR certification, but I will no way claim to be an expert.
When someone is in distress and needing assistance, you do NOT call 911 first, you attend the person first. You call out for help for someone to call 911, while you are trying to resuscitate the person. Another thing you have to be-careful on the elderly and frail. You can break their ribs and puncture a lung. Didn't I hear MJ was very small, maybe frail? You should always try to resuscitate the person until EMS arrives. JMOO but I think this will be part of the defense that he (CM) was administering CPR and calling for someone to call 911, and they didn't. It seems everyone had a cell phone.

I am trying to keep an open mind, it's hard, but I will say it's a good possibility MJ was already dead when CM came in the room, but he still would have done CPR.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

i think cm was chosen to be the personal physician of mj by very intelligent, powerful people...because they knew he was in a vulnerable position.

Huh? Jermaine chose drug dealer, I mean doctor, CM and brought him to MJ. Jermaine owed lots of money and was looking out for himself instead of his brother's best interests and his drug addiction. MOO.

 

[EPfan]

Huh? Jermaine chose drug dealer, I mean doctor, CM and brought him to MJ. Jermaine owed lots of money and was looking out for himself instead of his brother's best interests and his drug addiction. MOO.

Wow!!! I didn't know that, and it is sooo sad.

 

[Talina]

Huh? Jermaine chose drug dealer, I mean doctor, CM and brought him to MJ. Jermaine owed lots of money and was looking out for himself instead of his brother's best interests and his drug addiction. MOO.

Wait...I thought that MJ first met CM in Vegas when one of the children was sick. Did the introduction at that time come through Jermaine to treat one of the children?

 

[panthera]

All I can say to that is WOW, if that is proven to be true. If he did that, that sounds like another attempt at a cover up to me. (i.e. not wanting the death to have occurred on his watch but instead wanted it to seem to have happened at the hospital instead).

Those have been my thoughts also since MJ died. I also believe he was dead long before being pronounced at the hospital and Murray was attempting to stall the inevitable and cover up as much as possible before 911 was summoned.

Let me also say "thank you" to all of you who are posting during the trial. Being at work during the day I am unable to watch it, however, I am able to catch up by reading the posts.

:grouphug:.

MOO

 

[Talina]

I would like to just say as far as CPR is concerned.
I have my CPR certification, but I will no way claim to be an expert.
When someone is in distress and needing assistance, you do NOT call 911 first, you attend the person first. You call out for help for someone to call 911, while you are trying to resuscitate the person. Another thing you have to be-careful on the elderly and frail. You can break their ribs and puncture a lung. Didn't I hear MJ was very small, maybe frail? You should always try to resuscitate the person until EMS arrives. JMOO but I think this will be part of the defense that he (CM) was administering CPR and calling for someone to call 911, and they didn't. It seems everyone had a cell phone.

I am trying to keep an open mind, it's hard, but I will say it's a good possibility MJ was already dead when CM came in the room, but he still would have done CPR.

BBM

I've seen several doctors interviewed lately, most recently tonight (Dr.Gupta on CNN) say that is not the case. He said you ALWAYS call 911 first then administer CPR. He said you get the emergency help/equipment on the way first then start doing what you are capable of doing until they arrive. He said losing crucial time of them not being on their way immediately is sometimes the difference between life and death of the patient. Dr.Gupta said 911 should have been Dr.Murray's first call immediately when he went in the room and saw there was a problem.

 

[EPfan]

BBM

I've seen several doctors interviewed lately, most recently tonight (Dr.Gupta on CNN) say that is not the case. He said you ALWAYS call 911 first then administer CPR. He said you get the emergency help/equipment on the way first then start doing what you are capable of doing until they arrive. He said losing crucial time of them not being on their way immediately is sometimes the difference between life and death of the patient. Dr.Gupta said 911 should have been Dr.Murray's first call immediately when he went in the room and saw there was a problem.

I have seen this on the programs too, that is one of the reasons I posted this. You do NOT call 911 first because with a person in distress every second counts and it could be the difference of life or death. When you call 911 it takes several minutes to answer their questions and get them on their way to you, those minutes would be crucial to the patient. Also if no oxygen is going to the brain it can cause problems also. You cal out for someone to call 911. If there isn't anyone to call 911, you wait until you think the patient is stable enough that you can let up enough to call 911. (or unfortunately the patient isn't coming around and you feel you should call 911) then after your call you resume your CPR, you never should stop trying to revive the person until EMS arrives and they take over, because they have the equipment that normally you don't at home or where ever you are at. I hope someone else steps up and clears this up because there many people watching and they are getting the wrong info on some of the shows.

 

[Callie]

Huh? Jermaine chose drug dealer, I mean doctor, CM and brought him to MJ. Jermaine owed lots of money and was looking out for himself instead of his brother's best interests and his drug addiction. MOO.

Where did you get that information about Jermaine?

 

[Talina]

I have seen this on the programs too, that is one of the reasons I posted this. You do NOT call 911 first because with a person in distress every second counts and it could be the difference of life or death. When you call 911 it takes several minutes to answer their questions and get them on their way to you, those minutes would be crucial to the patient. Also if no oxygen is going to the brain it can cause problems also. You cal out for someone to call 911. If there isn't anyone to call 911, you wait until you think the patient is stable enough that you can let up enough to call 911. (or unfortunately the patient isn't coming around and you feel you should call 911) then after your call you resume your CPR, you never should stop trying to revive the person until EMS arrives and they take over, because they have the equipment that normally you don't at home or where ever you are at. I hope someone else steps up and clears this up because there many people watching and they are getting the wrong info on some of the shows.

Whichever is supposed to be done, it appears to me that neither was done with Dr. Murray. He was not immediately doing CPR and he chose to call others instead of 911. That is what has me scratching my head...if he is going to take the time to call someone instead of doing CPR, why wasn't that call to 911 or at least instruct the person he called to call 911?

 

[EPfan]

Whichever is supposed to be done, it appears to me that neither was done with Dr. Murray. He was not immediately doing CPR and he chose to call others instead of 911. That is what has me scratching my head...if he is going to take the time to call someone instead of doing CPR, why wasn't that call to 911 or at least instruct the person he called to call 911?

I am trying to hold my guilty verdict until I hear all the evidence, but it's very hard. Someone should have known to call 911. If Dr CM wasn't doing CPR he should have called.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Where did you get that information about Jermaine?

Yes, in all my years of reading I have never heard CM was introduced to MJ by Jermaine.

I saw a guy who TV who was on MJs security team back in 2006 when he and the children lived in Las Vegas and the kids had just come back from Ireland with bad colds and that is how Murray met MJ because he treated his children.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Whichever is supposed to be done, it appears to me that neither was done with Dr. Murray. He was not immediately doing CPR and he chose to call others instead of 911. That is what has me scratching my head...if he is going to take the time to call someone instead of doing CPR, why wasn't that call to 911 or at least instruct the person he called to call 911?

The reasonable and logical thing to do is tell the first person you come in contact with to call 911 immediately. He had every opportunity in the world to tell Chef Kai to call 911 and it would have been done instantly.

But Murray is speaking in codes where no one really understands what was even going on.

Simple. He needed others to see him trying to save MJ even though HE KNEW MJ was already dead.

And to know he knew MJ was dead yet called Prince up to witness that tragedy is unforgivable and shows such self-centeredness.

IMO

 

[Talina]

Yes, in all my years of reading I have never heard CM was introduced to MJ by Jermaine.

I saw a guy who TV who was on MJs security team back in 2006 when he and the children lived in Las Vegas and the kids had just come back from Ireland with bad colds and that is how Murray met MJ because he treated his children.

imo

BBM

Same thing I've heard as well but I've been wondering today why MJ would take the kids to a cardiologist for colds. Odd to me.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I would think the economy would be having an effect also.

Also he said one of the reasons he cant sell it is the traffic congestion it has caused since MJ passed away. He said sometimes 500 people come by the mansion......stop and take photos of the mansion.

IMO