MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

[GourmetSoy]

I can't help but think little Lisa was sold to someone for money or to pay off a debt. I'm not sure if the text that has been reported is true or not but if it is then the mother is definitely involved.
IMO the reason she said the cell phones were taken was because she tried to destroy evidence on the phones and had to come up with a reason she couldn't turn them over to LE.
Also, it just makes no sense that the front door was unlocked if this was the first night her husband had worked the night shift. As a mother and woman at home alone you would be on high alert to sounds in the house even more than usual. Not to mention you have a sick baby that could need you through the night. It does not add up at all and I can see why LE is focusing on the mother. :furious:

 

[Shelby1]

Good morning everyone!

I don't have a single new tweet regarding Lisa

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]

[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3


Friday October 7, 2011

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago


**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.


Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122

**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.


PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.

**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”

** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)

**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)


The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)

Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....

http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating

Thank you to Hazel for finding this!

***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.


http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn


**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago


**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-pol...-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story


#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.

**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.

** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html


Thanks to BeanE:

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago

LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago


Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy

 

[JeannieC]

Up thread there was some discussion about an apparent distance between the two parents. This interview here actually ends with the statement about how close they are and the final shot is a genuine hug.

That was a tough interview to watch! Imagine having LE tell you that. Bless their hearts.

 

[Norwegian]

Having trouble finding the wonderful timeline that has been such a staple of Lisa's threads. Anyone able to give me a recap of anything that happened overnight, if anything? Last news I remember were the few posts on FB from Deborahs father, clarifying the phone issue, and the officialrreports of the landfill search and the possibly related dumpster fire.

Thank you and good morning to all.

Everything you wrote!!

I'm very interested in the timeline too - where is the latest?

Thank you

 

[elepher50]

No new tweets, lots of recaps, Lisa has not been found yet. No named suspects, discrepancies need to be cleared up, communication needs to get back on track between the parents and LE.

Hoping today is the day that little Lisa is found.

 

[andalso]

Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been discussed but....

I believe its been reported that all (or a lot) of lights were on in the house.
My question is....What kidnapper would turn on the lights in the house? That makes no sense to me, seems like kidnapping 101 that lights would be kept off.

 

[Cuoco7]

He was building a Starbucks....I'm still trying to put together why this would be something done at night.

If it's in a mall area, they have restrictions on working in the day because of noise bothering other tenants. My husband builds stores like this and he works nights for a segment of these jobs until noise isn't a factor. I thought it odd at first and then it made total sense as to what JI is working on.

 

[BeanE]

Just posting again for reference:

Jeremy (dad) says everybody - including himself - has been cleared except Deb (mom):

“The main problem I think that we’re facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi,’’ Irwin said. “I was at work. I’ve been cleared. All these other people we were worried about … the FBI said they’ve been cleared. The only one you can’t clear is the mother that’s at home when it happens `cause there’s nobody else there.’’

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30255015_1_fbi-agents-kansas-city-police-landfill/2

 

[twall]

The one thing that I think is an automatic prejudice against the parents is the "failing of the polygraph". I immediately go back to the parents of Breanna Rodriguez who came right out in the press to publicly admit that they were "told" they failed the polygraph. I liked that the husband was suspicious in thinking that LE uses that as a tactic to divide and conquer by creating distrust in the parents as well as a strategic move on the part of LE to shake up a guilty party. However, as we all now know...the tragic death of Breanna had absolutely nothing to do with her parents and therefore, I place absolutely no weight on a failed polygraph. In fact, I think it's a cheap shot to parents, but I understand the often questionable practices by LE as part of a missing person investigation. I just hope that someone abducted this child because they wanted a child and not because they wanted to kill her. It's just a horrible situation, period.

I agree and would never take a poly in a missing child situation one of the reasons being what you stated above.
I don't agree with a lot of tactics still used in this day and age by LE to solve the crime like badgering or lying to someone, guilty party or not. Years ago before the science of DNA and technology was not as advanced I can see why it was acceptable. I think some of the LE tactics should be outlawed.

MOO

 

[Lillith]

Feeling very overwhelmed by all of this. I've never followed a case like this before and I'm feeling really attached to this little angel. Not coping anymore - just can't stand it. How is any of this possible? If we can't protect and nurture innocence what is the point .. of any of us?
Sorry- not very helpful - just so, so sad....

 

[~n/t~]

Any opinions as to what they may have been looking for with a metal detector? Cell phones?

 

[Gardenlady]

Feeling very overwhelmed by all of this. I've never followed a case like this before and I'm feeling really attached to this little angel. Not coping anymore - just can't stand it. How is any of this possible? If we can't protect and nurture innocence what is the point .. of any of us?
Sorry- not very helpful - just so, so sad....

:hug:

 

[SarahW]

I wonder if the location where the neighbor saw the man carrying a baby that night is on the way to the apartment complex where they had the dumpster fire early Tuesday morning.

Well, it's possible. That baby-carrying man was, (according to press accounts of the neighbor's wife of what her husband saw) spotted on a street "perpendicular to Lister" and that dumpster fire occurred on a street perpendicular to Lister. That account also has the baby porter (possibly feinting his movements) moving as though he were heading for a residence.

The dumpster-fire street runs through an apartment complex, FWIW. I do wonder if this is the side street.

 

[Gardenlady]

Any opinions as to what they may have been looking for with a metal detector? Cell phones?

Just off the top of my head...

Cell phone or sim card
Keys
Weapon



Has me stumped!

 

[momtective]

Was a description of the man seen walking with a baby ever released?

I just can't imagine that this wasn't a top priority for LE...but I guess it wasn't.

 

[~n/t~]

I'm still unclear as to LE's theory of point of entry and exit was. Was it the unlocked front door, an open window? Wasn't one of the windows broken? The one that was initially thought to be Lisa' room but turned out to be the computer room? Was that window already broken or did the suspect break it? Which window was left open?

 

[SarahW]

I agree and would never take a poly in a missing child situation one of the reasons being what you stated above.
I don't agree with a lot of tactics still used in this day and age by LE to solve the crime like badgering or lying to someone, guilty party or not. Years ago before the science of DNA and technology was not as advanced I can see why it was acceptable. I think some of the LE tactics should be outlawed.

MOO

Polygraphs are unreliable, and I have read that they are particularly unreliable in the immediate aftermath of a missing child case because of the heightened emotional state of the parents, and the intense guilt felt for not preventing the event felt on the part of a parent- rational or irrational.

 

[Gardenlady]

Still wishing that LE or parents or someone would ask the public to think if they know anyone who has been talking up adoption recently, and now has a 10 month old fitting Lisas description, maybe after what seemed like a very quick adoption process, and they're acting strangely about it. Or perhaps someone knows a person who is suddenly caring for a 10 month old, and they say they're taking care of a friend or relative's child to help them out, or something similar.

If Lisa is out there, whoever has her has to have a story like this about why they suddenly have a child....

 

[andalso]

Google maps says it 33 seconds to drive from the home to the dumpster location, and 3 minutes to walk.
While I hate to suspect the mom did something, why would a kidnapper go to the trouble to abduct the baby and only drive 33 seconds before stopping at the dumpster....for any reason. Wouldn't said kidnapper want to get as far away from the scene as possible before stopping?

 

[Elley Mae]

Google maps says it 33 seconds to drive from the home to the dumpster location, and 3 minutes to walk.
While I hate to suspect the mom did something, why would a kidnapper go to the trouble to abduct the baby and only drive 33 seconds before stopping at the dumpster....for any reason. Wouldn't said kidnapper want to get as far away from the scene as possible before stopping?

I am thinking that the police are not going with the "kidnapping" thing, I think they are looking for a deceased lisa. jmo