MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[Jaxson]

THe fire was around 2:28 am the night/morning of disappearance. Right around the same time as the phone call that they wont comment on.

Maybe the timeline has the exact time?

Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (timeline link)

Just a thought when I read this....what if abductor took phones through them in the dumpster and lit it on fire ...but one of the phones landed on the dial button and made a call before it went up in flames. Okay my wild thought for the day!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I live about 10 minutes NW of where baby Lisa lives. I haven't seen a single flyer up here. Not one at gas stations, restaurants or at Zona Rosa which a huge outdoor shopping center.

As far as kidnapping for illegal adoption, does anybody remember the seriel killer John Robinson, who was from KS/Mo. He befriended a single mother from a battered women's shelter. She had a 4-5 month old daughter. He killed her, forged papers and gave the baby to his brother, saying the mother had commited suicide.

Also there are 2 airports very close to them. The downtown and KCI. I haven't flown in forever, but how easy would it be to hop on a plane and be out of the area?

:welcome3:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Lisa story coming up on CNN - a new twist - wonder what that is?

Not much to that report. Sounds like the "new twist" is the reenactment that we already know about. Guest also mentions that stranger infant abductions are rare and that in most cases, infant abductions are by someone close to the family.

 

[JeannaT]

Had your dog "met" your brother, prior to that?

We have a new dog (whippet/rat terrier mix), and we notice he alerts/barks on people the first time -- and then he's calm when they come in later.

Everyone I've known, whose home was broken into, was not home at the time.

Yes, he had met my brother a few times. But for him not to alert when the door was opened, around 2:30 a.m., was astounding. Fred the dog was as shocked as I was to see my brother walk out of that bedroom in the morning. He DID light up barking at that moment, but not during the night.

 

[gliving]

CNN's angle was that if Lisa was abducted by someone wanting a baby, there is a very good chance she can be found.

Funny how the different news networks work a story.

 

[laytonian]

I live about 10 minutes NW of where baby Lisa lives. I haven't seen a single flyer up here. Not one at gas stations, restaurants or at Zona Rosa which a huge outdoor shopping center.

As far as kidnapping for illegal adoption, does anybody remember the seriel killer John Robinson, who was from KS/Mo. He befriended a single mother from a battered women's shelter. She had a 4-5 month old daughter. He killed her, forged papers and gave the baby to his brother, saying the mother had commited suicide.

Also there are 2 airports very close to them. The downtown and KCI. I haven't flown in forever, but how easy would it be to hop on a plane and be out of the area?

But why that baby? The subdivision is "hidden", it's far from downtown and the airports, the house had to be broken into while people were there, and there are easier scenarios to pull off.

I don't think the Robinson case is a good comparison, since he had to kill a woman to get the child.

 

[tlcya]

The parents have stated "facts"--things they claim were noticeably out of the ordinary--that imply what happened. I think LE is now establishing that these "facts" were merely the parents staging the scene. iow, no intruder came in or went out the window.

JMO

I just find it highly unlikely that Mr. Shephard has a direct line to LE or that they are choosing him, of all people, to share the fruits of their investigative analysis with.

If I recall, the parents have stated on a couple of occasions that they do NOT think someone could have entered through that window.

 

[fraudqueen]

I know exactly what you mean in reference to B, just like when OJ tried on the glove.

that's the same thing I said....like O.J.....lol.

I watched that guy "attempting" to crawl in the window and was rolling. All you needed was one jump from the ground, through the window and zippiddy...you're in. Especially someone who had been inside the house before and knew what was under the window inside. Probably take about 30 seconds...if that...IMO.

 

[laytonian]

Yes, he had met my brother a few times. But for him not to alert when the door was opened, around 2:30 a.m., was astounding. Fred the dog was as shocked as I was to see my brother walk out of that bedroom in the morning. He DID light up barking at that moment, but not during the night.

Sounds like your dog's a coma-sleeper

 

[loveandhugs]

After reading all the threads and almost all articles: I cannot believe how many times the parents story have changed.
"Boys sleeping in their own beds, 5 year old sleeping with mom, dad checking in on baby then going to mom waking her and asking where baby is, dad going into mom's room asking why all the lights are on, dad finding "window" open then noticing screen bent, dad saying "windows" were opened, parents calling 911 from neighbors house, parents using dad's work phone to call 911, etc, etc, etc."
I could go on and on. If the parents are not involved, why do their stories differ soooo much?

Just because the parents say they realized baby Lisa was "gone" when the dad came home from work does not mean that is what actually happened. If the parents were involved, it is possible that something happened to Lisa before the dad went to work, they then decided to say Lisa was put to bed as usual, and dad came home to find her missing. Baby Lisa may have never been put in her crib that evening.

Unfortunately parents do harm their children, and many children are never found. : (

 

[JeannaT]

Not much to that report. Sounds like the "new twist" is the reenactment that we already know about. Guest also mentions that stranger infant abductions are rare and that in most cases, infant abductions are by someone close to the family.

I don't understand what exactly they're unsuccessful at "reenacting". If they literally don't think someone could get in that window, go to the baby, and get the baby back out the window they're wrong. They're wrong.

But I do think it's unlikely, and it's requires a little bit of coordination and strength. I think someone walked in the door, turned on some lights, took the cell phones, took the baby, opened the window considering going out it, and then decided against that and went out the front door instead. If they need me to, I'd be glad to come show them how. ;D

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I just don't believe a mother would assume her baby is beyond help,and get rid of the body. Not if she loved the baby .She would call for help.

What if the baby was cold to the touch and clearly dead by the time they discovered her?

 

[panthera]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...indow-kidnap-enactment.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I still am at a loss, especially after looking at several photos of this re-enactment, why an intruder would choose this front window to break into the house. Granted the large dog is in the back, however, would someone be so desperate to get inside they would risk being seen by nearby neighbors? Aren't most B&E on single story homes done through the rear?

 

[vasportsmom]

He DUMPED her on her birthday?11???? Oh my. Poor girl. LOL

Yes, he did. His little brother still isn't speaking to him because he really liked the girl and I'm ready to kill him for making me do all that work for a girl he didn't even plan to date for another 8 hours. My time would have been much better spent here trying to keep up with the thread. :banghead:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

i have Fox News on in the background while i'm reading this thread and on Shepard Smith just now they had a segment about baby Lisa, he said that LE did the reenactment a half dozen times and couldn't reenact it like the parents said it happened. first time i've heard "half dozen times." could be conjecture on Shepard Smith's part.

There was a video posted yesterday that was very long showing all the different ways they could crawl through the window. What they were trying to prove or disprove I have no idea but they went through the window several times.

 

[joyless]

Sounds to me that LE knows the parents are involved. The sense of urgency and danger that is usually associated with a stranger abduction seems to have vanished over the weekend and has been replaced with a child that is missing only to the rest of us and the parents know where she can be found.

JMO

Sadly it seems we have learned from past cases, the longer the body is not found if it is...and I hope its not...a suspicious death...less strong evidence. Little Caylee...Celina....time is not on sweet Lisa's side.

 

[MissJames]

Sounds like LE is ramping up the pressure on the parents.

LE claimed mom didn't pass the LDT and told dad he didn't need to take one. That would be a devicive move on LE's part. If dad is responsible,mom would be expected to say "wait a minute,it wasn't me it was ...." If mom WAS responsible it would be dad's opportunity to place the blame fully on her.
The re-enactments are turning the screws on the parents story. Makes me wonder what LE knows for sure? Are they even looking at anyone else?
Look at all the people who came forward when Susan Powell went missing and told LE that JP was suspicious. Is anyone talking about Lisa's parents? I hope LE has spoken the other parents of the two boys.

 

[JeannaT]

Sounds like your dog's a coma-sleeper

Not at all - that's why we were baffled. And when I heard that Jessica Lunsford's barky little dachshund didn't bark when Jessica was taken from her bed, I thought um hmm. It happens.

Inexplicable, but it happens - ;D

 

[fraudqueen]

IMO....the parents are being truthful or they would have given a better story...the dog barks all the time, we didn't pay attention, I left the lights on...no, didn't have the baby monitor on, so tired forgot to lock the door. I mean...really!! That's why it seems true. I feel she's probably lucky to be alive..if she had woke up and confronted a crazy person who wanted a baby, it wouldn't have gone well.

 

[goldringstx]

First post, but I've been reading for days... :seeya:

Has anyone in MSM released the description of the "man" with the baby that was allegedly seen by the neighbor?

I can't get past the fact that not even a general description of this man was released - height, build, direction of travel, nothing. It's seemed strange since day 1 to me.