I don't know where they came from, but in one picture (given during a TV interview, I think), PR is holding up both hands palms-out (almost as if to say "I Surrender"). On her hands are rings with VERY big stones.
Blah,blah,blah?!
- Thread starter madeleine
- Start date
I don't know where they came from, but in one picture (given during a TV interview, I think), PR is holding up both hands palms-out (almost as if to say "I Surrender"). On her hands are rings with VERY big stones.
After reading DOI and interrogations made by John, it is my belief that he dictated the ransom note while Patsy wrote it.
It is also my belief that the Ramseys spent few hours with the ransom note...explaining why 15 pages are missing from the notepad.
As to who fashioned the garrote and placed it on an already unconcious JonBenet...I'd like to say it was John but we know Patsy's sweater fibers are all over the place. I'd like to know how Johns work gloves fit into the murder...did they find fibers from the work gloves on JonBenet or the garrote?
My belief is that this was an accident that turned into murder. If Burke played any part in this crime...then it was the head bash. He just received a Nintendo64 that day and the game that was available was SuperMario 64. In the beginning of the game, there is a large bomb tied to a post and it is up to mario to bash the pole the bomb is attached to and set him free....something he could have mimicked on JonBenet.
It is also my belief that the Ramseys spent few hours with the ransom note...explaining why 15 pages are missing from the notepad.
As to who fashioned the garrote and placed it on an already unconcious JonBenet...I'd like to say it was John but we know Patsy's sweater fibers are all over the place. I'd like to know how Johns work gloves fit into the murder...did they find fibers from the work gloves on JonBenet or the garrote?
My belief is that this was an accident that turned into murder. If Burke played any part in this crime...then it was the head bash. He just received a Nintendo64 that day and the game that was available was SuperMario 64. In the beginning of the game, there is a large bomb tied to a post and it is up to mario to bash the pole the bomb is attached to and set him free....something he could have mimicked on JonBenet.
gypsychild
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I cannot for the life of me find a good picture of this womans hands! I can tell she has a big ring on but would like to get a better look. If anyone sees one, link me please
eileenhawkeye
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I just spent time looking at pictures of Patsy on JBR memorial sites, but I couldn't find one that showed her ring good! I'll keep looking. However, I did a find one picture that caught my interest.
We all know about JonBenet's infamous Marilyn Monroe costume:
I also found another picture of JBR wearing the MM costume:
Is Daphne White the girl next to JBR? He's a picture of Daphne without the face paint:
(She's right next to JBR)
I read that JonBenet wore the MM costume to a pageant, so does that mean Daphne was at the pageant? Or did JonBenet wear the MM costume to school? She's not wearing the name tag in the second picture, but she's still wearing the same lipstick, so I'm wondering if they are from the same event. Wearing a Marilyn Monroe costume at 6 is wrong, but at least it's more socially acceptable at a pageant. Did Patsy have JonBenet wear the MM costume to some non-pageant Halloween event or was Daphne at the pageant too?
Source: http://www.myspace.com/331214461/ and http://www.myspace.com/jonbenetramsey_love/
We all know about JonBenet's infamous Marilyn Monroe costume:
I also found another picture of JBR wearing the MM costume:
Is Daphne White the girl next to JBR? He's a picture of Daphne without the face paint:
(She's right next to JBR)
I read that JonBenet wore the MM costume to a pageant, so does that mean Daphne was at the pageant? Or did JonBenet wear the MM costume to school? She's not wearing the name tag in the second picture, but she's still wearing the same lipstick, so I'm wondering if they are from the same event. Wearing a Marilyn Monroe costume at 6 is wrong, but at least it's more socially acceptable at a pageant. Did Patsy have JonBenet wear the MM costume to some non-pageant Halloween event or was Daphne at the pageant too?
Source: http://www.myspace.com/331214461/ and http://www.myspace.com/jonbenetramsey_love/
eileenhawkeye, I had tried to find a vintage webpage with images regarding the rings,
ended up at pbwords. Maybe the images are available elsewhere. I will look arounds, FFJ etc ....
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682467/Evidence-of-a-Stun-Gun
Marks Caused by Patsy Ramsey Rings?** Wolfmarsgirl developed a theory that the stun gun marks instead were made by Patsy Ramsey's rings.
Evidence Against a Stun Gun
ended up at pbwords. Maybe the images are available elsewhere. I will look arounds, FFJ etc ....
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682467/Evidence-of-a-Stun-Gun
Marks Caused by Patsy Ramsey Rings?** Wolfmarsgirl developed a theory that the stun gun marks instead were made by Patsy Ramsey's rings.
Evidence Against a Stun Gun
- Tom Wickman. On December 26, 2006, Carol McKinley conducted an exclusive Fox News interview with Tom Wickman, former BPD Detective and Grand Jury BPD representative. According to Internet poster [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=135060&postcount=20"]Koldkase[/ame], Wickman "said a lot of false information has gotten in the public about the evidence. He wouldn't specify, for obvious reasons, but McKinley brought up that the "stun gun" allegations are WRONG, that the BPD PROVED that the marks on JonBenet's face ARE BRUISES, NOT STUN GUN INJURIES." In this version of the [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F3Ubv2cbds"]interview[/ame], it is clear that Wickman is the source of this information, but McKinley merely asserts "he believes" the injuries to be bruises.
Here is a video from my collection; it has a few good looks at PR's hands, especially in the final few frames.I cannot for the life of me find a good picture of this womans hands! I can tell she has a big ring on but would like to get a better look. If anyone sees one, link me please
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUdK6Vp7yA"]YouTube - ‪PR_VID‬‏[/ame]
Thanks for trying to help, cynic. But frankly, and may God forgive me for saying this, just listening to PR's voice and her constant "poor me" whining BS makes me want to puke.
The way I look at it is, whether she and JR are guilty or innocent, they would have served themselves a lot better by just staying quiet.
Yeah, I suppose I should have stripped off the audio.
It does capture the essence of Death of Innocence; however, woe is me.
The video clip was by our old friend, Erin Moriarty, from whom I would expect nothing less (biased.)
Me, neither.
"Woe is me," never "woe was JB!"
I think I'd best back up. I don't want to lose my temper.
ty cynic.
Re: PR's big baubles
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUdK6Vp7yA"]YouTube - ‪PR_VID‬‏[/ame]
Rings
@0:45 0:46
big rings, right hand fourth finger
and left hand fourth finger
@ 1:22 - 1:29
left hand fourth finger
@ 1:32
right hand fourth finger
@ 1:56 2 rings on right hand, fourth finger and pinkie finger
I know it was along time ago on this forum, but someone posted pics of Patsy's ring on her hand- it had slipped around to the palm side because it was heavy- compared to some of the marks on JB. In seemed like here were little 'clusters" of abrasions inside the bigger mark that were being compared to the small cluster of stones on Patsy's ring.
That was our good friend Wolfsmargirl, who I'm trying to get in touch with.
gypsychild
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So I end up back at the blah blah blah thread
So I was thinking -- this whole "garotte" thing -- why is the paintbrush broken in 3 pieces? That brush looks pretty thick and the only reason I can think of for it to be broken like that is if someone hung it between two thing and pulled it down... Where I am getting at is this:
I wonder if the complicated knot was BR practicing those climbing knots, and tried to climb something and broke his moms brush. So the original complicated knot was already tied with the string to this brush handle, already broken. Could that explain the differences in the knots? i.e. the more complicated being attached to the handle, the less complicated knots around the throat and the hands? Also the weird broken paintbrush.
Dunno. I am sure someone thought of this before and can never find the threads I am looking for lol!
So I was thinking -- this whole "garotte" thing -- why is the paintbrush broken in 3 pieces? That brush looks pretty thick and the only reason I can think of for it to be broken like that is if someone hung it between two thing and pulled it down... Where I am getting at is this:
I wonder if the complicated knot was BR practicing those climbing knots, and tried to climb something and broke his moms brush. So the original complicated knot was already tied with the string to this brush handle, already broken. Could that explain the differences in the knots? i.e. the more complicated being attached to the handle, the less complicated knots around the throat and the hands? Also the weird broken paintbrush.
Dunno. I am sure someone thought of this before and can never find the threads I am looking for lol!
madeleine
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I am not a Patsy did it but you just made me think of something.My grandpa used to paint and he was pretty good at it,but we were NEVER ever allowed to touch his painting stuff,touching or playing with it meant trouble.So what if Jonbenet broke it and this is what made Patsy angry?
So I end up back at the blah blah blah thread
So I was thinking -- this whole "garotte" thing -- why is the paintbrush broken in 3 pieces? That brush looks pretty thick and the only reason I can think of for it to be broken like that is if someone hung it between two thing and pulled it down... Where I am getting at is this:
I wonder if the complicated knot was BR practicing those climbing knots, and tried to climb something and broke his moms brush. So the original complicated knot was already tied with the string to this brush handle, already broken. Could that explain the differences in the knots? i.e. the more complicated being attached to the handle, the less complicated knots around the throat and the hands? Also the weird broken paintbrush.
Dunno. I am sure someone thought of this before and can never find the threads I am looking for lol!
gypsychild,
Well applying KISS or Occam. I would reckon one knot was tied by one person and the other knot by a different person.
The use of the paintbrush handle is curious, almost counter intuitive, since it is not required when fashioning a ligature. Alike the size-12 underwear it is a staging error, has any other child, assaulted by a sociopathic pedophile, ever been asphyxiated using a garrote?
So why bother, why not simply use the paintbrush handle to fake some bizarre sexual assault and leave the evidence for all and sundry to view?
A light review of the crime-scene evidence should reveal that its all staged. The fact its staged should call into question the notion of Undoing, not that it is not applicable, but how do you distinguish the intentionally staged e.g. the size-12 underwear from whatever artifact represents Undoing.
Its probable that some of the crime-scene evidence was added in stages, just like a jigsaw, with different people adding their perceived crime-scene objects. So if Patsy did indeed view a movie that incorporated a child being asphyxiated with a ligature, well , go figure ...
So the knotting on JonBenet's wrist restraints would not, well, restrain her at all, they would likely just fall from her wrists, due to gravity! The knotting around the paintbrush handle incorporated JonBenet's hair, so if it had ever been used as a Garrote JonBenet's hair would have been pulled out at the roots! Also the length of the paintbrush handle would prevent it being twisted in a circular motion, all in all the Garrote could never work as advertised!
Ever wondered why an abduction complete with ransom note became a homicide employing a Garrote that concealed a sexual assault?
The paintbrush was likely fashioned just outside the wine-cellar door, shards of wood were discovered there. Someone probably rested it against the wall, at an acute angle, and simply stepped on it to break it.
Its use is not obvious or required, so why bother. What we do not know is any of JonBenet's internal injuries were caused by the use of the paintbrush. There is a piece missing, which may have been left inside JonBenet, but redacted from the autopsy report. This would fit with the twisted logic of the staging.
So the wine-cellar is all staging right down to JonBenet's size-12 underwear. Including the pink barbie nightgown and the barbie doll left lying next to her body. Some people think these items blew in on the wind of chance, but of course, they are parts of the staging, past, present or future!
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gypsychild
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I agree it's staged, the whole thing, and I don't believe JBR was staged initially in the wine cellar but staged somewhere else first then moved there by JR. BUT - I do not undertand the broken paintbrush. If someone broke it there, in three pieces, why leave some splinters on the floor but put the brush part back into the carrier??
I am staring at this picture of the knots and the hair tangled in the knot really seems to indicate that this was actually tied while on her. Was the hair entangled in this and cut to remove this or was the hair pulled out? I seem to remember the hair being cut... While I can understand the knot around the neck containing hair - I do not understand the end with the paintbrush handle containing hair.
Some investigators described the crime scene as "staging WITHIN staging". It is believed the ligature was made right on her, and evidence suggests she was on her stomach and the knot was tied at the back of her neck. Her hair was tied into the knot, which lends credence to its being tied right on her. The coroner reported finding her hair tied into the cord, and he noted he had to cut her hair to remove the ligature. The ligature itself was cut off (standard procedure to preserve the knot) and the coroner marked the cut edges with marker to identify where the cut pieces fit together. The urine on the anterior (front) surface of her longjohns and panties suggest she died on her stomach, which fits right in to the ligature being tightened as she lay on her stomach. There is also a bruise on her posterior (back) right shoulder where it could be expected to kneel or press against her while making and/or tightening the ligature.
Yes, the hair tied into the paintbrush handle is a puzzle. I agree it is expected on the knot- it was tied right at the base of her hairline at the nape of her neck. But the paintbrush handle was not only unnecessary for the operation of the ligature, but it is hard to define how her hair got tanged up with it. I can picture the killer holding on to the paintbrush handle (after the knot was already tied) and using this "handle" to hold onto as they wrapped the cord around her neck a few more times. There is more than one ligature furrow, each one representing a place where the ligature wound around her neck.
Then, the handle was used to have leverage to pull hard, and the last winding ended up close to her hairline, the hand of the killer inadvertently grabbing some hair as they pulled that last time. As the handle was found unwound, at the end of a length of cord, the killer had to unwind it, as it would not have fallen away by itself after being wound a few times. She was carried up with the brush handle dangling by this length of cord.
JR said he untied her wrists, which we know did NOT happened, as there is NO evidence that any ligature was ever tied around her wrists to begin with (there are NO marks reported or seen by the coroner or anyone else who saw the body- only the neck furrows). JR did not mention unwinding the neck ligature, and said he did not even notice it at first.
There IS one other person who knows the truth about exactly what JR did when he encountered JB's body at 1 pm that afternoon. FW was right behind him as they entered the wineceller- he saw the body in situ, along with JR they were the only 2 people to see JB in an undisturbed, staged crime scene. FW may very well have told LE what he saw and what JR did or did not do, but we do not have this information. FW alone knows whether JR touched the wrist cords, pulled the tape from her mouth, and the exact position of the blanket and body. Once she was picked up by JR and carried upstairs, there was no longer an uncompromised crime scene.
gypsychild,
Sometimes when you see stuff that you do not comprehend, this is a clue, e.g. Columbo: "Oh sir can I ask one last question?"
Because as amateurs they make mistakes, this is how people are caught.
Their arrogance or hubris allows them to focus upon the staging but forget the big picture and toss away the evidence. Can you imagine an intruder bothering to place the paintbrush back in the paint tote?
No, and this is why it was not a Garrote it was a staged Garrote its use even as some kind of erotic asphixiation device would have caused intense pain and yanked Jonbenet's hair out at the roots, at odds with its advertised purpose.
Columbo to Smit: "Are you telling me sir that JonBenet was strangled with this device, that some perverted pedophile used this as a vehicle of pleasure whilst choking the life from JonBenet?"
Smit: "Exactly what we have here is the work of demented, evil pedophile intent on exacting pleasure from a poor defenceless child"
Columbo: "Well could I ask you one last question?"
Smit:"sure"
Columbo: "Now when I listened to the 911 call, I heard Patsy Ramsey say she
had a ransom note and that JonBenet had been abducted, so tell me Lou, how come you know its a sexual assault case and not an abduction gone wrong?"
the bit you do not understand about the paintbrush and hair is because its a staging error allike the size-12 underwear!
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