Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[jjenny]

That's interesting. A local searcher found Caylee.




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And we all know how that turned out in terms of prosecution.

 

[Tuffy]

And we all know how that turned out in terms of prosecution.

If not for Mr. Kronk I don't believe she would have ever been found. I just think the people that work and live in the area shouldn't be discounted. Victims are often found by ordinary people, and not the professionals.


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[Wise Old Owl]

Hi Paige- LE did not do a Poly on him because they confirmed his whereabouts (work) and have not yet made him a focal point. Cheers! L

respectfully, we don't know that. I've searched and searched and the only one saying dad didn't have to take a poly was dad. He said he asked and they told him no, he wouldn't need to. As far as LE - they haven't said one way or the other on who took one or who didn't and what the results were.

I really want to know what time dad went to work that night. We haven't even been told that.

 

[Donjeta]

Hi Paige- LE did not do a Poly on him because they confirmed his whereabouts (work) and have not yet made him a focal point. Cheers! L

I don' t believe that polys are all that reliable but if they are useful investigative tools imo they could be useful even if the father has an unshakeable alibi. Just because a family member was at work at the time doesn't mean that he could not know more than he is saying or be lying about something that happened. (Not saying he knows anything or lies about anything, just saying...)

 

[tlcya]

man, oh man. Still trying to keep an open mind but I am so disappointed with recent interview developments.

I now understand why LE has been unable to clear DB. It would appear she has been unable to help them "clear herself"

This is very distressing.

So now we have another element going into the creation of a"perfect storm" of events leaving Lisa the most abductable baby in all of KC that night???

:headshake:

I will say this. IF by some miracle DB did nothing to Lisa, then somebody very close, maybe within, this family's close circle is responsible.

 

[wfgodot]

Yes, recent revelations caused a move - the first one - in my vaunted "chance the answer lies inside the home" percentage-o-meter, which had been set at 60-40 based merely on historical likelihood. Not a wild swing, but it's at 65-35 now.

Innocent until proven guilty. No matter the numbers.

 

[askfornina]

Yes, recent revelations caused a move - the first one - in my vaunted "chance the answer lies inside the home" percentage-o-meter, which had been set at 60-40 based merely on historical likelihood. Not a wild swing, but it's at 65-35 now.

Innocent until proven guilty. No matter the numbers.

amen! :twocents:

 

[laytonian]

That's interesting. A local searcher found Caylee.

I had understood that Kronk had just pulled over to work in the area (or relieve himself) when he found the bag of remains.

 

[laytonian]

Yes, recent revelations caused a move - the first one - in my vaunted "chance the answer lies inside the home" percentage-o-meter, which had been set at 60-40 based merely on historical likelihood. Not a wild swing, but it's at 65-35 now.

Innocent until proven guilty. No matter the numbers.

I see it differently:

"Innocent until proven guilty" only applies within the courtroom itself, and is part of jury instructions.

If everyone was considered "innocent", no one would ever be charged with a crime. The phrase is interesting on another level: there's no court finding of "innocent" -- only "guilty" and "not guilty". That's a signal that no one's ever "proven innocent" in the courts; only that the evidence itself speaks one way. Otherwise, OJ would have been "innocent".

The amount of information coming out of DB's mouth, dribs at a time, tells me that she's soon to spill the beans.

 

[wfgodot]

I see it differently:

"Innocent until proven guilty" only applies within the courtroom itself, and is part of jury instructions.

snip-snip

Granted and your opinion respected and it's true that the "innocent until proven guilty" construct does not go all the way back to, say, my beloved Magna Carta. But to say that concept "only applies within the courtroom itself" I can't agree with. It's something I think might be in the heart of every freedom-loving American, whether serving on a jury or not, "innocent until proven guilty": a way of life.

 

[laytonian]

snip-snip

Granted and your opinion respected and it's true that the "innocent until proven guilty" construct does not go all the way back to, say, my beloved Magna Carta. But to say that concept "only applies within the courtroom itself" I can't agree with. It's something I think might be in the heart of every freedom-loving American, whether serving on a jury or not, "innocent until proven guilty": a way of life.

But it's all trumped by the First Amendment, and the necessity to solve crimes.

"Innocent until proven guilty", if applied to all, would apply to prosecutorial efforts, also.

 

[AnaTeresa]

But it's all trumped by the First Amendment, and the necessity to solve crimes.

"Innocent until proven guilty", if applied to all, would apply to prosecutorial efforts, also.

It does, in a way - innocent citizens have rights, after all. Prosecutors have to prosecute cases within the boundaries of those rights to prove someone is innocent. It's not about the prosecutors believing that everyone is innocent, and thus, cannot prosecute. It's about treating the accused in the courtroom as if he were innocent, and thus respecting his rights. The prosecutor must first prosecute before putting someone in jail. If prosecutors believed in guilty until proven innocent, they'd be jumping straight to jail first all the time.

 

[DLT88]

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1atkau6Jn

Well, one thing we do know now...that ain't Jersey. :floorlaugh:

That was the first time I had read or heard the man carrying the baby was African-American. And they are sure the baby was white? Was there enough light outside to tell the skin colors of the man and the baby in that area? I live in the city where it's like daylight outside at night with all the lights but I lived in a quiet suburb where, when it was night, it was pitch dark.

 

[askfornina]

are my fence-sitters still out there? :fence: i'm still in my same spot. patiently waiting for evidence! :seeya:

 

[Paige SC]

I see it differently:

"Innocent until proven guilty" only applies within the courtroom itself, and is part of jury instructions.

If everyone was considered "innocent", no one would ever be charged with a crime. The phrase is interesting on another level: there's no court finding of "innocent" -- only "guilty" and "not guilty". That's a signal that no one's ever "proven innocent" in the courts; only that the evidence itself speaks one way. Otherwise, OJ would have been "innocent".

The amount of information coming out of DB's mouth, dribs at a time, tells me that she's soon to spill the beans.

Exactly. That's like saying Casey Anthony is innocent (despite everyone but the jurors think otherwise). And I like how you phrased that ! Brain Food

 

[ketel0ne]

are my fence-sitters still out there? :fence: i'm still in my same spot. patiently waiting for evidence! :seeya:

Still here.

 

[ketel0ne]

So new question, aside from the parents....how is a 10 month baby girl not pulling at the heart strings of America?

Even despite Cindy, George and Casey, Caylee was able to shine through.

 

[AnaTeresa]

are my fence-sitters still out there? :fence: i'm still in my same spot. patiently waiting for evidence! :seeya:

Still up here on the fence, too. I always do this, particularly when the media starts targeting someone with very little real evidence to go on. I'm a bit stubborn that way. I work in a criminal defense law firm, so I always need to solid proof to get me off the fence.

 

[Minette]

I've been back and forth on this case more times than a rocking horse, but even after the interviews of this morning I'm still up on the fence, hoping for a solid piece of evidence, a motive, something other than statements from one talking head about what another talking head said.

Despite all the revelations that DB might be a negligent mother for drinking heavily with three young children in her care, I still have to have some tangible reason to believe in her guilt other than the desire to punish her for being a 'bad mommy.'

Mostly, though, I just want Lisa to be found safe.

 

[Scamperoo]

are my fence-sitters still out there? :fence: i'm still in my same spot. patiently waiting for evidence! :seeya:

Beginning the short splintery slide down to the (knows more than they are telling) other side. Just the expensive lawyer, media interviews and the fact that mommy doesn't look nearly affected enough. Seems to have got over things really well.