Conrad Murray -Day eighteen.

[peace9274]

Maybe I am jaded because of my profession, but Miss Ruby didn't make me glad to be alive. She actually struck me as someone who wanted to tell the jury what they should do, and that, IMHO, is not an admirable quality.

Now the tee vee talking heads are pushing the story that CM may want to take the stand. It would seal his fate if he did. I remember the great orator, Dr. Fred Neulander, who thought he could talk his way out of a murder conviction. It got him a hung jury the first time, but he now sits in a NJ prison for the rest of his sorry life. If CM does take the stand, it's got to be because he wants to tell a different story than he told the cops. That, alone, will destroy his credibility. And who knows what other dirt Walgren has on him?

IMO
If CM is wanting to take the stand, it will be so he can do another phony,
pathetic, tearful, "poor-me" speech, like the one he did on U-tube, .....
thinking he'll get the jurors' sympathy & understanding.

And then surely they won't convict him.

It'll work! Easy peasy! It's a done deal!:crazy:

 

[Crosby87]

Yes, and at least once for every procedure!

Wouldn't surprise me at all if there was some kind of medicaid/medicare fraud going on there.

MOO.

CM performed surgery on all of today's witnesses and none of them said they experienced any complications after CM operated on them.

My impression of CM is that he's a highly skilled heart surgeon who always performed his operations successfully.

Did anyone of today's defense witnesses say they were given propofol before CM operated on them and if so who gave it to them? TIA

 

[Talina]

CM performed surgery on all of today's witnesses and none of them said they experienced any complications after CM operated on them.

My impression of CM is that he's a highly skilled heart surgeon who always performed his operations successfully.

Did anyone of today's defense witnesses say they were given propofol before CM operated on them and if so who gave it to them? TIA

I believe all of today's witnesses testified to receiving stents from Dr. Murray. I don't believe that is considered major surgery. In fact, most patients are awake during the procedure with mild drugs to help them relax through the procedure.

Several of the witnesses testified to being awake, not sedated to unconsciousness during their procedures, at the least the ones that were asked. Not all were asked but it would be unusual, not the norm, for them to have been sedated as one would be for a major surgery.

Not all were asked if Dr. Murray ever gave them propofol but the ones that were asked said no, he did not.

I got nothing out of the testimony that made me conclude Dr. Murray is a highly skilled cardiologist or highly skilled surgeon. In fact, I came away wondering why on earth he was giving these patients so many stents. One testified as to have as many as 13 at one time from him. That sounds a bit off if you ask me.

IMO

 

[borndem]

:bangheadefense has no other witnesses ready to go today. Court recessed. Good grief. :maddening:

I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for the DT.... they have wasted so much time, and coupled with the delay for poor Sharer's family problem (no blame there, certainly -- Shafer returned in record time, that scholar and gentleman) -- the DT's seeming disorganization shows up even worse. Are Cherny & Flan just not speaking to each other at all, or assuming the "other guy" is taking care of whatever? ...

I don't think they could make a cake in less than 3 days!

So, now we clean our houses -- Ack -- except for oceanblueeyes -- ocean, you must rest your ribs, baby!

 

[Velouria]

AEG producer didn't know CM started giving MJ Propofol in April 2009 and CM & MJ purposely deceived him and betrayed him.

RP had complete trust in MJ and didn't question what Michael told him which is why MJ was able to pull the wool over his eyes at the meeting at MJ's on June 20 iirc.

MJ was very competitive and he was engaged in fighting and winning legal battles most of his adult life. One lawsuit after another for MJ.

He ambitiously sought to outdo other people's achievements and set new records.

"They Don't Really Care About Us" is a protest song imo.

BBM

With all due respect, I'm having trouble seeing how that plays into CM's guilt or innocence. :dunno:

 

[Bobbisangel]

Yes I think so.

I've always found it interesting that defendants cry when witnesses are talking about them..Murry..Casey Anthony, etc. but they never shed a tear when it is the victim that is being talked about even if it is something horrible like pictures of them dead. Doesn't seem to touch the defendant but they sure can work up the tears for themselves.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe all of today's witnesses testified to receiving stents from Dr. Murray. I don't believe that is considered major surgery. In fact, most patients are awake during the procedure with mild drugs to help them relax through the procedure.

Several of the witnesses testified to being awake, not sedated to unconsciousness during their procedures, at the least the ones that were asked. Not all were asked but it would be unusual, not the norm, for them to have been sedated as one would be for a major surgery.

Not all were asked if Dr. Murray ever gave them propofol but the ones that were asked said no, he did not.

I got nothing out of the testimony that made me conclude Dr. Murray is a highly skilled cardiologist or highly skilled surgeon. In fact, I came away wondering why on earth he was giving these patients so many stents. One testified as to have as many as 13 at one time from him. That sounds a bit off if you ask me.

IMO

That is what I picked up on too. Why so many stents? On and on?

They may not have been paying him but he was getting paid from somewhere.

I hope the DEA goes all the way back years ago and investigates his records now that these witnesses have testified he did things for free ......especially at the hospital.

I remember in one of the SWs they found a letter where he had been suspended for a year from Doctors Hospital for not keeping concise records.

IMO

 

[Plumeria5]

Just saw a little video clip from HLN and I just had to jump in here with a comment. Haven't read the posts today so sorry if this has already been discussed. At the point where the witness goes over to CM and takes his hand. I could have sworn CM tilted his head as if to say, "Don't forget to kiss my forehead!" :floorlaugh: And the look on the prosecution lawyers' faces when he did that!

 

[borndem]

And another thang:

CM is putting multiple stents in these folks (13 in one of the witnesses). Sounds like a lot of 'em to me -- I am such an authority - hah! -- but I yam gonna ask my DH who has been in cardiology research for over 30 years & see if that's "normal." He's not an MD, but he knows his stuff & works with these folks every day.

CM stated that he was an interventional cardiologist, & this is what they do, and stents are used very very often, but 13 in one heart seems excessive. I dunno...but I'll check...

Answering my own question:

DH said 13 stents did sound a bit "excessive"...so does 7 or 6, IIRC in one of the other witnesses today (?).

So. Now I wonder if he was really putting in that many stents in one person or if he not only exaggerated those numbers with the patient but also with Medicare or Medicaid???

Being nice to patients almost always brings 'em back for more...

Was that his gig in Houston?? Vegas??

Just MO wanderin' and wonderin'......

 

[peace9274]

I hope there's further investigation, also... whether it's the boards, DEA, Medicare, etc.

The witnesses all stressed how much time CM spent with them during their appointments. Doctors get paid by the quarter hour.
If they want to be paid more money from insurance companies, all they have to do is report that it was a 15, 30, or 60 minute visit.

Yesterday, I got a ("This is not a bill") statement from my insurance company showing what they paid one of my new doctors.
(I've recently moved to AZ from New England)

I've only been to see him TWICE.
My first visit was for 30 minutes to discuss my history, etc.
The second visit was 15 minutes, for script renewal.

The insurance statement says I've been there 3 times.....
a 60 minute visit, a 30 minute visit & another 30 minute visit.

I'll probably question the doc the next time I go there.
Or maybe I'll call the insurance company. Not sure yet.

 

[borndem]

BBM

I wish I could recall where it was, but I read that a nurse at one of the hospitals said that CM was not liked by hospitsal staff.

DT should call a few nurses as character witnesses to get true testimonies regarding CM's character re him as a doctor.

IMO, Nurses are the best judges of what constitutes a good doctor.

Plus, they make the best recommendations, based on what they know about a doc...
how well he performs procedures, how quickly he respondes to pages, whether he has the "God Complex"... etc.

BBM -- Absolute-o-mundo, peace! Oh, yes, they know!!

 

[peace9274]

So, now we clean our houses -- Ack -- except for oceanblueeyes -- ocean, you must rest your ribs, baby!

Snipped & Bolded By Me.

Re cleaning house...
Uhmmm - I don't think so.
I have more sleuthing to do.

Or at least I can tell myself that!

I have to be in the right mind-set & be prepared & think
about it and then make a list before doing house cleaning.

Because court so rudely & unexpectedly ended early today (before noon, even)...
which caught me off guard & totally surprised, I'm just not prepared for..... anything!

 

[borndem]

I was under the impression Dr. Murray was able to obtain Propofol for Michael because he is a licensed medical doctor.

Did Nurse Lee testify that her nursing credentials gave her the authority to obtain propofol when MJ told her he wanted some for personal use in his home?

I don't know about CA, but here in The Old North State, all Nurse Practitioners must operate (not to be taken literally!) under the auspices of a medical doctor. They can prescribe drugs -- I don't know if there are any restrictions on which ones or quantity -- but again, it is under some MD's contract/association with the NP.

ETA: I just happened to be at my internist's office today, and I asked the BSRN there, and that is what she told me.

 

[TxLady2]

CM performed surgery on all of today's witnesses and none of them said they experienced any complications after CM operated on them.

My impression of CM is that he's a highly skilled heart surgeon who always performed his operations successfully.

Did anyone of today's defense witnesses say they were given propofol before CM operated on them and if so who gave it to them? TIA

They all had procedures, not major surgery. Most of them probably had cardiac catherizations, where they run a tiny tube through your veins and arteries to find any blockage. The stent can be placed during this procedure, if necessary. You are mildly sedated but not unconscious. I don't know of any doctor who administers anesthesia AND performs surgery at the same time. Any time you are sedated to the point of being unconscious, you must be monitored. It is very common for patients to stop breathing while under anesthesia.

 

[TxLady2]

I don't know about CA, but here in The Old North State, all Nurse Practitioners must operate (not to be taken literally!) under the auspices of a medical doctor. They can prescribe drugs -- I don't know if there are any restrictions on which ones or quantity -- but again, it is under some MD's contract/association with the NP.

ETA: I just happened to be at my internist's office today, and I asked the BSRN there, and that is what she told me.

I'm not positive about this, but I think a nurse practitioner here can order meds and refills but they CANNOT prescribe a new drug without the physician's okay. I would think only an M.D. could order propofol, but not positive. One would think the pharmacy would question it, since it's supposed to be an anesthetic, not a normal sedative.
Even my Ambien has to be authorized by the doctor every time I get a refill and only after a certain date. They're pretty strict about that.

 

[legalmania]

Ms. Ruby reminds me of my grandmother, her opinion of a good doctor is one that would let her talk and talk. My grandmother would tell the same story to the receptionist , then the nurse, then the doctor. Taking her to the doctor was pure torture for me, but I did it out of love. It sounds to me like Conrad spent way to much time with his patients, and I think it's cause he likes to talk.

 

[Talina]

Snipped & Bolded By Me.

Re cleaning house...
Uhmmm - I don't think so.
I have more sleuthing to do.

Or at least I can tell myself that!

I have to be in the right mind-set & be prepared & think
about it and then make a list before doing house cleaning.

Because court so rudely & unexpectedly ended early today (before noon, even)...
which caught me off guard & totally surprised, I'm just not prepared for..... anything!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Talina]

I don't know about CA, but here in The Old North State, all Nurse Practitioners must operate (not to be taken literally!) under the auspices of a medical doctor. They can prescribe drugs -- I don't know if there are any restrictions on which ones or quantity -- but again, it is under some MD's contract/association with the NP.

ETA: I just happened to be at my internist's office today, and I asked the BSRN there, and that is what she told me.

It's the same way here as well. The RX pad the nurse practitioner uses even has it marked under which physician she is authorized to prescribe.

 

[SAgal]

I thought one part of the first character witness, Gerry Causey's testimony was rather odd:
Mr. Causey said: CM called his wife (Mrs. Causey) to discuss that day's appointment; and to give his wife an update on Mr. Causey's treatment.
I've personally never heard of a physician doing this during a routine doctor appointment.
I thought that was "odd"...but, that's just my opinion.

 

[borndem]

IMO
If CM is wanting to take the stand, it will be so he can do another phony,
pathetic, tearful, "poor-me" speech, like the one he did on U-tube, .....
thinking he'll get the jurors' sympathy & understanding.

And then surely they won't convict him.

It'll work! Easy peasy! It's a done deal!:crazy:

BBM
I'm hoping :crossfingers: the jury wants to give him something, all right, but sympathy and understanding ain't it!!!

Know what I mean, peace??!!

Clue: It rhymes with guilty, jail time and a fine.

I'd really like to see a poll re him taking the stand or not... I wonder how CM feels about his chances with the jury ...inocchio:.. is he arrogant enuff to think he'll beat it??

And I'll bet a buck IF he is convicted, he'll do at least some time in the :behindbar .