(respectfully snipped by me)*
I really do not want to be negative, but I am sure they have been coached. It is really sad. Why no cooperation in the beginning? Happy Birthday Lisa. We care about you.
*
Above is BBM.. Starting with the latter first,
"Why no cooperation in the beginning?"
These parents were absolutely 100% cooperative, giving open and willing consent to themselves, their children, their home, their property, their vehicles, etc..*
Involving the first BBM as well is the fact that these boys were interviewed "in the beginning".. They were interviewed separately, by highly trained, specialized professionals in handling children especially under circumstances of heavy duress where alot of the times the children have beared witness to some pretty horrific events.. These highly trained professionals interviewed these brothers on October 4, literally within a matter of mere hours from their sister's disappearance when their memories and minds would be still extremely clear and fresh of what, if anything they knew had occurred in the home that day, evening, and night of October 3-4.. One of their very specific areas of expertise that these professionals are trained in is "the art of coaching".. This is standard operating procedure for these professionals to be dealing with children that many times have had many years of manipulative coaching done by their parent(s) for an entire myriad of reasons including abuses in the home, witness to abuses of other family members, and more often than not in a split/divorced/shared custody arrangement one parent has severely manipulated the children's mind to speak ill of the co-parent, outright lie about the other parent, and even coach them to express great fear and terror of the other parent.. All for selfish gain of the parent doing the coaching..
I say all of this and go into such great detail for the specific reason to explain that the professionals that interviewed the brothers on Oct 4 and again just yesterday are extremely experienced In "coaching" from extremely mild, subtle, short term coaching.. to the extreme, "brainwashing", extended period of time coaching that has been done or attempted to have been done to the child. These professionals that are very carefully speaking to them in ways that without the child even knowing, nor certainly not being re-traumatized these professionals can easily derive the answers to the much needed questions that they have of the child(ren).. These professionals know without a doubt IN LESS THAN 5 minutes flat whether the child has been mildly to severely "coached".. Or "coached" and/or manipulated, period *by an adult, parent and/or guardian.
What's of HUGE importance in this case is that
these two brothers were Interviewed in the beginning, literally within mere hours after their sister disappeared on October 4(THIS DONE WITH FULL COOPERATION OF BOTH PARENTS GIVING THEIR CONSENT TO ALLOW BOTH BOYS UNRESTRICTED ACCESS BY A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL TO INTERVIEW EACH OF THE BOYS, SEPERATELY).. and because the parents allowed the boys to be interviewed in the beginning(one son for 50mins, one son for 30mins)they have documented each boys account of the events that occurred the day, evening, night of Oct 3-4 with it still fresh and clear in their minds.. What's so important about this is that not only was their no hint of coaching(and really when exactly would mom have "coached" them they were in the presence of investigators from the time Lisa disappeared up to the boys being interviewed).. But they also have documented those boys immediate, fresh in their mind accounts of what happened(with it being within hours there is not even the natural tainting that occurs over time for children's memories of their overhearing multiple, many others Accts of what others saw or heard and thus over time young children tend to begin to incorporate certain details from other peoples Accts into their own Accts.. It's something that naturally happens and is not done intentionally).. But with the parents allowing the professionals unrestricted access to the boys within mere hours we do not even have that naturally occurring factor to have to deal with.. This original interview is invaluable to have..
They have that account voice recorded, video recorded, hand written notes from the professional, as well as from investigators who are not inside the room with the child and the social worker, but rather outside looking in and hearing the progression of the interview.. As well as the entire interview would be transcribed.. All of these means of recording these boys Accts so that investigators have and can refer to when need be.. With their having the original and now the RE-interview that occurred yesterday recorded in these exact same ways as well.. LE can comb over those interviews thousands of times if need be in looking for that one specific detail they may need in order to break this case wide open and lead them straight to baby Lisa..
The professional conducting each of these boys separate interviews yesterday knew within moments of their beginning with each brother whether or not they had been "in any way intentionally manipulated or coached".. I emphasize "intentionally" due to as I mentioned earlier the natural occurrence of over time a child beginning to incorporate another individuals details of the events of the night in question.. These professionals are skilled in these specific details and able to easily discern "intentional" from what occurs naturally without any intent from anyone.. These boys would be so "obvious" to having been coached IMO it's not even a realistic concern.. THERE IS EACH OF THESE BOYS ORIGINAL INTERVIEWS COMPLETE WITH THEIR ACCOUNTS OF THAT NIGHTS EVENTS DOCUMENTED AND IN FRONT OF THE PROFESSIONAL WHO IS CONDUCTING THE RE-INTERBIEW YESTERDAY!!.. if these boys came in with whole new "stories", changed details, or information omitted or heavily added THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LARGEST, BRIGHTEST RED FLAG THAT EVER WAS WAVING CRAZILY IN THESE PROFESSIONALS FACES.. it's not even possible for a minute to pretend the many highly trained and educated individuals that are handling these boys interviews and their Accts of the times in question.. Not for a nano second would this get past, or get over on a single, solitary one of these Many skilled individuals..*
So, IMO it boils down to this.. These boys "could" have gone in yesterday and been interviewed individually by the professional and each of the brothers could have told either the most subtle changes to just the right details that mom has so perfectly coached and practiced with them to do.. And to pull it off and say it without skipping a beat.. All the way to they "could" have come in with an entirely different account to the extreme of mom having coached and practiced for weeks on end each new and alternate detail of each of their account of that night to where he could recite it as easily as the pledge of allegiance, backward and forward, from beginning to end and then back Again.. Either one of these brothers or both of them "could" have gone in there yesterday with either the most superb and subtle coaching of just the right details or have gone in with an entire different and unrecognizable account of that night's events.. It still matters not.. These professionals and investigators no matter what have these boys original, unrestricted, immediate while still fresh in their minds accounts of the night's events.. The "coaching" IF IT WERE DONE(and IMO it was NOT).. BUT EVEN IF IT WERE THAT STILL DOES NOT TAKE AWAY THE INVALUABLE DOCUMENTED, ORIGINAL, OPEN AND HONEST ACCOUNT OF EVENTS FROM EACH OF THESE BROTHERS!! IF COACHING WERE DONE THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCCEEDED BY IT IS BY HAMMERING AND DRIVING IN THE FINAL NAILS OF MOM, DEB's COFFIN, sealing her doom(again to reiterate I personally do not believe that mom, JT, BS, or Santa Claus himself.. None OF them coached either of THESE boys or attempted to have them lie or be dishonest.. But jmo, tho)
There is a multitude of media, including video, articles, and even statements from the KCPD(which I believe have made some dire errs in judgement in their using the media.. I also believe they fully realize this) But some are of the opinion that they believe only the word of KCPD.. So there is even KCPD's direct words and statements among that plethora of evidence showing that these parents
"in the beginning"
were indeed over the top in cooperating fully, separate individual interviews, isolated and removed from speaking with each other or any other form of support for 11+ hours, in a haze of confusion with the reindeer games KCPD played "in the beginning" with bold faced lies of going back and forth btwn each of parents isolated rooms of interrogation stating to Jeremy that Deb just confessed to murdering Lisa, or stating to Deb Jeremy confessed, then the back and forth to them each stating to JI that Deb has confessed that she saw you murder and bury Lisa and vice versa.. They still kept cooperating!! Both agreeing to take LDT.. Tho they only had Deb take one and then told her she failed miserably and they knew she murdered Lisa.. They already had the proof she murdered Lisa so she should confess to save her fam the added heartache.. That they had met and known plenty of "bad mothers" just like you are, Deborah! BUT YET THEY KEPT ON COOPERATING THRU ALL THAT!!!!! then they brought in elaborate schemes of burned up ashes of baby clothes telling Deb we have Lisa's clothes here we recovered from the trash bin you burned your baby in.. Had "Doppler maps" drawn up and thrown before Deb stating the dots were proof positive that she murdered her only daughter and disposed and hid the cell phones!! Continually berating her repeatedly for hour upon hour upon hour all the while stating they already know that she murdered Lisa and that they were going to arrest her and charge her with murdering her daughter and lock her away for life!! Confess Deborah.. If you have any love for your children or family you'll confess to murdering your only daughter Lisa and save your fam the heartache of searching for her little body!! Jeremy already knows you murdered his only daughter, Deb, so you might as well confess that you did it!!!
Deb continued to take and take it and take it!! She never put an end to any of it!!! It was only due to Jeremy Irwin that that 11+ continual isolated interrogations were brought to a conclusion.. He having not slept in now 2 full days, purely exhausted in every way imaginal that a human being can be..he simply asked officers if they could please have a break temporarily to decompress if even for a very short time.. A human beings mind, body, and soul all three components can only endure so much for so long til rapidly one by one they each will totally shut down.. Jeremy Irwin asked could they please ATLEAST break temporarily.. Be allowed to "rest"(I mean really everyone can judge til the cows come home but there has got to be a "break" temporarily for a human being to be able to live and function).. It was Jeremy who asked if they could rest just for the remainder of that evening, of what little was left, check in on their boys(who'd also been given the parents full consent for the sons to have already have been interviewed).. And you better believe after what those parents had just endured and their knowing they'd consented for their two little boys to be interviewed.. Well.. I can guaran-damn-tee you that I would have been determined to get to my boys and was fearful of what they'd possible been subjected to?!! I mean you really think about it after what each of them had been thru for 11+hours, the berating, the outright lying and reindeer games, the elaborate manipulative hoaxes of baby's burned clothes, and being told miserably failed LDT, and that the entire LE knew you murdered your baby and you were going to be charged and convicted of your baby's murder.. After such trauma on top of the horrific trauma of your daughter being taken and God knows what's being done to her.. And worried sick that your boys had been severely traumatized by your allowing these LE access to your boys.. That's a helluva alot..
And Jeremy Irwin, NOT DEBORAH BRADLEY.. but Jeremy Irwin simply asked for their allowed the remainder of that evening to catch their breaths and check on and be with their boys and family.. It is this "break" that someone within the KCPD thought it wise, and a good tactic or route to take to continue what I've politely called their "reindeer games" tactics.. They within mere hours of Jeremy having asked for that break AND NOTHING MORE(NOR DID THEY HIRE OR EVEN CONTACT ANY ATTYS AT THAT TIME).. KCPD made the very unwise decision(IMO) to go before the media barking out that the parents were thru!!! Parents are done with LE!! Parents no longer will cooperate!! Parents now refusing any cooperation in their own daughters disappearance!!
None of these having even a sliver of truth.. These parents were further just shell shocked, knocked about dazed, and truly dumbfounded!! They'd not said anything of the sort!! Jeremy says he simply asked for a break after being up for more than 2days and 11+ hours of some pretty traumatic treatment in ways I truly don't believe some ppl even begin to truly recognize what type of very real trauma that was taking place!!.. So, not only do the parents come forward immediately saying they never said anything remotely implying they were no longer cooperating!! Jeremy asked for a break, LE said ok and them wham bam all across local TvS KCPD barking the parents have decided to no longer cooperate!! Still even after all of that these parents continued to fully cooperate with LE.. They were not seeking retaining Attys they were blindly going with LE all the while truly continued to endure blast after blast with LE's motive being to "break them" Into confessing!!.. They not only submitted willingly to these very traumatic extended isolated interrogations, but also willingly had given full consent for their boys as well To be interviewed(something many still either honestly do not know.. Or just choose to disregard and omit as a fact to this case).. As well as numerous, multiple signed consent and permission allowing LE access to their homes, everything they owned within their homes, including their small children's most cherished, irreplaceable items of importance, their entire property surrounding the actual*physical structure of the home, as well as any other storage, shed, camper, etc.. As well as their vehicles and anything other item/place that LE desired.. Over and over numerous and multiple times this permission and access was given along with their extended families on both sides providing their absolute and complete cooperation with themselves as well as their homes, property and vehicles..
Yes, these parents did EVERYTHING TO THE UTMOST OF COOPERATING WITH LE's every want, need, desire, request, demand, or otherwise including the continued berating of Deb and non stop accusation of her being guilty of murder!! LE IMO made some decisions and choices "in the beginning" of this case that determined the future of that investigation where this family is concerned. They cooperated fully in the beginning and they found themselves as LE's guilty murdering mom that they were determined that they could "break her" getting the confession THey were so sure she had..
No, I certainly don't agree with the media Attys/handlers that have come to town and taken claim of this case and the route in which they are guiding these parents.. But IMO part of the blame lies within the choices/decisions made "in the beginning" of how to execute this investigation of this tiny, little girl lost in all it.. Baby Lisa Renee Irwin..
As i said I don't like the route being navigated by these media/handlers and Attys but just as Mr. Abeyta has been so very brutally honest in relaying.. I, too believe the parents were terrified, untrusting, very real "human beings", *inexperienced twenty something year olds that were in the most extreme places of vulnerability that a human being can be in.. And IMO unfortunately in desperation and need and not knowing who or what to trust.. Especially after the beginning path that was chosen by LE.. These parents grabbed on for dear life to the life boat.. That boat being JT, BS, etc.. And I don't know how they go about getting back to what's the only important thing, their baby girl.. I know what I would do, but I am not them and they are not me.. So I have no right to judge from my position here on the outside.. All I can do is continue to do what myself and my family do everyday and that's continue to pray..
*my apologies for my extremely long winded post:blush: .. There are just so many "facts" or accurate details of this case that somehow get misconstrued, forgotten, or omitted all together that IMO are very very important and paint the true and accurate picture of what's happened throughout these past 5 weeks of Baby Lisa's investigation.. IMO they are what they are *and they are important IMO for those who've not been able to follow this case throughout and have come in at some point along the way.. It's very easy to paint the picture of the parents are guilty, refusing any cooperation ever, difficult, no good liars from the onset.. But that's not the honest and accurate truth.. And IMO to be able to look at the case as a whole all pieces must be present.. The good.. The bad.. And the ugly.. All of it..**
