GUILTY MO - Tyler Dasher, 1, Affton, 15 Nov 2011 - #2

I'm sorry, but I don't have to understand why a mother would beat her baby to death. All I have to understand is that this baby is now dead because of his mother's choice not to control her temper. We are all faced with choices every day. I don't think any amount of understanding is going to prevent this kind of behavior. MOO.

I think we are doing all of the future babies of this world a terrible disservice if we don't try to understand it. Working to understand child abuse will hopefully lead to finding ways to prevent it. Understanding why someone does something doesn't negate their responsibility. It doesn't take away the sorrow and anger we all feel. It just, hopefully, saves some babies. What could be wrong with that?
 
Here is the MO laws, chapter on offenses against the person:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/chapters/chap565.htm

I think this sounds like it falls under voluntary manslaughter, not first degree murder (maybe second degree murder, at the most). Here are the definitions:

I would say second degree not voluntary manslaughter because there needs to be passion for adequate cause in the case of voluntary manslaughter, and I don't think being kept from sleeping when you were partying all night fits that. Adequate cause would be something like you walk in, find your husband molesting your kid so you beat him to death in a fit of passion. Or a man comes home early and finds another man having sex with his wife so he beats him to death in a fit of passion.

There are so many options nowadays for young girls. Birth control, abortion, adoption.

No excuse. I hope she gets punished to the full extent of the law and hopefully this will be a wake up call to other "Shelbys" out there. Killing your baby is not an option!

I think there needs to be more dialogue about this with teenagers/young people, etc. They need to know the reality of having a baby, that it's not a toy and that there are so many better options than having a child you neither want or can care for. But let's say Shelby was taken out and hung this morning. It would not prevent such murders from occurring in the future. Young people who lack parental instinct, who are narcissistic and who do not control their tempers are not going to sit back and say, "Wait, if I lose it and beat my baby, he might die and if that happens, I will be killed." It just doesn't work that way. Some of the countries that have the harshest laws also have high rates of crime.

Do we knows she was out partying? The articles Im reading said she was home that night?

I too was young when I had my first (23 also), and I too didn't party, didn't go out, was up on time, did everything "right". It didn't stop me from feeling pretty ambivalent towards my most difficult baby (the "screamer" I referenced above, born when I was 24) for a while. I had family who could "spell" me during the day, and a husband to help at night, but it was still the most difficult, awful year of my life, with moments where, like I said, I had to put baby down in the crib, screaming, and walk out to where I couldn't hear her. It can make the most responsible parent in the world lose it.

Not everyone has the same internal make up. Mentally we are all wired differently. Even in the best of environments, the most stable of families, that internal "wiring", for want of a better word, can cause one mom to snap while another is able to stay strong and in control.

Shelby had her mother there for help, but how much of an impartial observer could her own mother be? No one wants to believe their daughter would be capable of harming their own infant; and certainly Grandma must have thought Shelby was a good mother - all Shelby's friends said she was, too. So yes, while Grandma was a help, and was a "tool" Shelby could have used for a break to regroup or get away, Grandma might have been too close to see signs that Shelby might have been over stressed. An outside, trained health worker might better recognize signs that she needed more help.

As Etilema said above, the more we deal harshly, or make negative characterizations of mothers or fathers or caregivers who are on the edge, the less people will ask for help. I really do think these negative feelings towards children are more common than we want to admit, so we distance ourselves from it by saying people who have these feelings are "unnatural" or "monsters". What parent on the edge wants to call a hotline and confess they're feeling anger towards their child and they need help, when they are simultaneously feeling ashamed for having such feelings?

I just want ways to keep this from happening to other babies. I don't think harsh charges and harsh sentences will do that, at all. The easier we make getting help, the more availablehelp is, and the more realistic we are about parenting (especially for young parents who are raising unplanned children; and I say that as someone who was once in that boat) and about how parents can snap, the less we will see of this type of thing, I think.

That all said, my heart is breaking looking at pics of this little guy. I would love another baby, even after four of 'em, and I see his adorable little face and smile and would give anytng to have taken him for her. I can't imagine how Shelby's mother must be feeling. :cry:

Gardenlady and Flutterby80, thank you both so much for your honest and eloquent posts in the midst of so much emotion. They made me think and I think almost every parent has had a moment during which they have such thoughts, especially if they have a child who is not "easy". But I think the difference is character. Those with it do not act on their thoughts. Those without, do. Age, education and upbringing play a role in a person's character. Spoil the heck out of a child and you get a narcissistic adult who thinks they are more important than anything and their needs are above even those of the helpless.

We need a culture in which our own needs do not come above others. Also, young people need to be taught that it is not cool to have a baby when one lacks the resources and maturity to provide all he or she can to that baby. It's hard work and heartache.

That being said, when someone does show they lack the character to avoid giving into their baser instincts and ignore the needs of the helpless entrusted to their care, imprisonment past child bearing age seems appropriate.

By the way, mom was out partying, according to reports from LE. She partied until 2:30 a.m., came home and the next morning when she could not sleep in, she went ballistic. I don't know why she thought it okay to party when she had a child to care for and her mom had to work. I don't know why her mom allowed her to go out and leave the baby to be cared for by grandma, while daughter is getting drunk. (Poor grandma is probably enveloped in guilt right now).

WOW I can't believe after a confession she would have the nerve to plead NG. I smell a insanity plea coming......

I see others have posted it but I will repeat, she did not enter a plea of guilty: The judge entered a not guilty plea on her behalf. That is standard at a preliminary hearing when the defendant lacks counsel. That's what the judge does. 20 year old entitled, spoiled Shelby probably had no clue why she was at the hearing and what it was for.
 
If in fact this mother had never abused her baby before, there really would not have been any warning signs...if as her friends claimed, this baby was her "life" etc...this could have been a substance-induced rage which, could not have been prevented without her refraining from substances...but many adults partake in various substances without beating their children. This could be one of those cases that other than her being a young mom who enjoyed going out with her friends, had no real warning signs. And that is really scarier than otherwise, IMO...
 
:hug: THANK YOU for sharing that! I too was in the very same state of mind you describe. I don't know what it is that keeps one person from acting, and another from not, but I so wish we had more close monitoring and mentoring of moms and babies once they leave the hospital, and part of that should absolutely be frank talk about how stressful it can be, and no matter what your thoughts are, you aren't alone in having them, and that help will be available.

I think today I will look into that emergency baby drop off organization that others were talking about earlier, and maybe make a donation in little Tyler's name. I hope places like that get much more publicity because of this little one. The more people that know they are there, the more little ones they can help.

:blowkiss: thank you both for sharing. I too have been in situations like yours. My 2nd child was colicky and never slept. He cried 24 hours a day for months on end. I had more than one occasion where I thought I was going to be that mother on the news.

I am not defending SD or anyone else, I'm just saying that it can happen to good people/mothers. As mothers we have such a high standard put on us from society and for some people it's unattainable.

I'm saddened for all of Tyler's family, and I just wish someone could have been home with him to stop his mother.
 
I'm not sure how this can legally be a first degree murder - killing someone in a fit of rage type situation is different than a premeditated murder. I would like a look at the MO statute, and it's been umpteen years since criminal law in college - are there any lawyers on the thread who could comment on this?

I probably have a different opinion than most here - I think these type of killings are more common than we might like to admit. This reminds me of the many more shaken baby cases we hear about, where a parent or care-giver snaps. I know there used to be commercials, sort of PSAs, about what to do when you are stressed as a parent. At the pediatricians, there are brochures about parent hotlines, and steps to take when you feel you are at the end of your rope (put baby in crib, shut door and go into another room or outside for a few mins, etc). Two of my kids were fairly difficult babies,and one had reflux so badly that she screamed nearly all day, would not eat well (and thus was always losing weight, and very often getting dehydrated), and it went on for months and months. There were many moments where I had to put her in the crib and walk away and shut the door,and more often than i like to admit, my thoughts were NOT GOOD. I thank god i had family nearby who would come daily to sit with the babies,tell me to get dressed and GET OUT for a while. Situations like that can cause any normal human being, yes, even a mother, quite a build up of stress, and even anger.

If we could be honest about this, I think there are times when all parents have reached that end of the rope feeling with a screaming child, even a baby. I think it is more common than we like to admit. We like to paint pictures of motherhood as all candy canes and rainbows, and we like to think that maternal/child bonding is so special that to have negative or even ambivalent feelings towards a baby is unnatural, but I think that sets up an u realistic set of expectations on mothers.

What I would love to see come out of cases like this is some type of program that I know many countries have, where a nurse does home visits with new moms for a certain period of time after having the baby. To watch the interaction, give advice, check up on both mom and baby. I realize that in this case, little Tyler was an older baby, and so this type of thing may not have helped prevent this, but maybe there were signs a experienced health care worker could have picked up on, and it could prevent other cases of a parent "losing it" and harming a child. Especially in cases where the parent is young, or the parent is single and young, as we have here.

None of this means I don't feel that the mom in this case should be punished. I do think she should, and i am glad she has confessed; that says to me that she probably feels genuine remorse for what she did. But I think we need to be realistic, also, and do what we can to avoid these situations. I don't think this was a mother who deliberately set out to kill her child, and I don't think she deserves a first degree murder charge, unless more info comes out to support that. We need more services, more information and support for parents, especially younger ones, not harsher setences and charges. That isn't going to help any other case in the future. Someone "losing it" in the heat of the moment isn't going to stop and say "oh wait, that other baby's mom got the death penalty, so I need to cool down now". They're not thinking calmly and rationally in that moment. However, if they're given the tools to avoid such a situation in the first place, well, then it never gets to that point where they've gone too far. :(

I have to disagree. This child was not killed by being hit once in the head or tossed out a window a quick action of rage, he was hit over and over again what I imagine a very slow bloody process. Once she came down from her rage she didn't realize what she had done and then tried to save him, she walked him to a nearby cemetery and through him in a bush face down. I bet the part we are not hearing is that he was possibly alive when dumped in the bush, that would be something that would clench first degree, refusal to get medical intervention therefore letting him die from her beating. Which I am almost certain happened here. He was hit over and over again, I am sure he cried, begged, tried to move away he was a 1 year old, no visiting newborn nurse could have helped him.

There are times when all mothers feel overwhelmed - I was a mother at 16 and I had my share of moments of anger, but let me tell you that hitting my child over and over until he died would not be something a NORMAL person would do. There are no programs or health services or prevention services that can predict and cure pure evil selfishness. This girl lived with her mom who supported her, it took her to the age of 20 to graduate high school, she is NOT a child nor do we need to pacify what she did with the ills of society and the fact that she was poor and not very educated. If she were a man or the boyfriend of the mother we would not be making excuses.

The problem is that there are very scary people out there who have no love for their children and have no business having them, they don't have the love and mental capabilities to take care of a child. If you can beat your child who is 1 to death then throw him away in the cold and then go back home see your family cry for him and just stand there, then you are evil and deserve to be punished to full extent of the law.

Again had she stopped beating him and tried to save his life, then we could say it was rage and she snapped. But she didn't and he is dead. MO
 
I wish we had better support programs for young mothers all over and well advertised.. Makes me want to look into something...

She had no work and wanted to sleep in from being out late what kind of support could she have received? It wasn't like she was a full time student and worked full time and was raising him alone and worked late and had to get up in the morning and then lost it.

What kind of support would you have offered her that would have stopped this? All mothers lose sleep. She was 20 not 16.

Her FB page said - if you disturbed her sleep she would kill you. well she did she killed her son because she is evil - you can't cure evil.
 
I think culture may play a huge role in what SEEMS to be an increase in child murders. I know it has gone on literally forever...my own sweet Grandma and her seven siblings were severely abused in every way imaginable. They had a horrid life, and she was born before 1920. But it does seem the last two generations have raised a crop of selfish, whiny, lazy people who are now having babies. There are so many people in this world who expect life to be easy. Things that our grandparents considered a privilege (a car, a college education, etc.) are now considered to be rights. Immediate gratification is something the older generations didn't expect. If you wanted something, you worked and saved for it. If you wanted people to respect you, you behaved in a responsible way. If you wanted good children, you put in the work and raised them to be decent human beings. This culture of giving your children everything they want and running to school to cuss out the teacher when they get into trouble is ruining people. MOO
 
I think we are doing all of the future babies of this world a terrible disservice if we don't try to understand it. Working to understand child abuse will hopefully lead to finding ways to prevent it. Understanding why someone does something doesn't negate their responsibility. It doesn't take away the sorrow and anger we all feel. It just, hopefully, saves some babies. What could be wrong with that?

I agree. Prevention is vital and understanding the causes of child abuse and murder are key to prevention. It is easy to give in to our blood lust and shriek that Shelby should be dead and we can forget about her and how what she did to her own, sweet baby happened. But that will not prevent another Tyler Dasher story.

I want to know why this person felt she should get pregnant. I want to know why she felt she should keep the baby once she was. Why not adoption? I want to know why grandparents think nothing of working their tails off while their spoiled kids pop out their own kids and party all night. Why was Shelby permitted to party on a night when she did not have available child care set up for the next morning?

And why isn't birth control taught in every grade in high school? Why aren't parenting classes taught in high school? Why isn't the reality of teen parenting discussed at length?

I have no compassion for Shelby. She is a dog gone bad and IMO, once an adult goes bad like this, there isn't too much hope for changing them. This was a mom who killed her own, little baby, beat him to death.

But I have tons of compassion for Tyler and other children like him and I am hoping her case can be examined and discussed and utilized to prevent more such cases. Being a teen parent should not be glorified as a cool thing to do. A tiny bit more shame may be helpful in our country.
 
I think we are doing all of the future babies of this world a terrible disservice if we don't try to understand it. Working to understand child abuse will hopefully lead to finding ways to prevent it. Understanding why someone does something doesn't negate their responsibility. It doesn't take away the sorrow and anger we all feel. It just, hopefully, saves some babies. What could be wrong with that?

We would have to stop babies from crying when they have parents who only think of themselves and want 10 hours on interupted sleep. We would have to teach babies not to interupt their mom's boyfriend when he is playing video games because they may get beat to death. We may have to teach children that if mom's boyfriend doesn't want you then you need to go find a new home before you end up dead. Or maybe we need to teach children how to take care of themselves so that mom doesn't get stressed out when she can't go out with her friends.

The problem is easy to understand. There are people in this world who don't care about their children or children and they abuse them and in the end kill them for their own selfish purposes with no remorse, just like rapist rape, murderers murder and thieves steal. mo
 
A little O/T, but my oldest took a family/homemaking elective during her freshman year. One of the projects/test was taking home one of those "real" babies. It came with a car seat, 2 diapers, and a bottle. It was programmed to cry and to respond to various things at various times...and sometimes couldn't be comforted at all except by holding and rocking it. It also has a computer chip in it that would record how long the baby was left unattended, whether the baby was abused (shaken), etc.

Well, her's was accidentally programmed on the highest setting. I was determined to make her take care of the baby all night by herself. At 2:30 a.m. the baby was programmed to only respond to the rocking and cradling to stop the crying. My daughter was in her room rocking and crying with the baby. She was so frustrated and so tired.

When I took her to school the next morning, we had a talk about it. She was very tired and VERY happy to be bringing her baby back to school. She said it was one of the hardest nights of her life. It was a real eye-opener.

I'm going to have my youngest do this project as well.

In fact, I think EVERY high school student, both boys and girls, should be required to do it. :)
 
Today I am going on about 3 hours of sleep so I apologize if I don’t make much sense (baby girl #2 is getting her first tooth and had a rough night). I know I have seen other posters say it but who thinks that hitting a crying baby will make them do anything but cry more??? What is wrong with people? Put the baby in a safe place and walk away until you are back in control of yourself. That is how you handle a crying baby. Whenever I read one of these cases I think back to a time when baby girl #1 was a little under a year. I could not keep her out of my house plants. I got so angry at her one day that every part of me wanted to hit her but instead I put her in her walker and ignored her for about 15 minutes. That night when I went to bed I couldn’t sleep because I felt so guilty for ignoring her. But it made me realize that if I felt that much guilt over what I did do, there was no way I could ever hit her out of anger and be able to justify it later. Now at almost 5 when she is driving me nuts – I think back to that day and I walk away. It was the best lesson that I have learned as a parent and something that I hope my girls learn from me.
 
If in fact this mother had never abused her baby before, there really would not have been any warning signs...if as her friends claimed, this baby was her "life" etc...this could have been a substance-induced rage which, could not have been prevented without her refraining from substances...but many adults partake in various substances without beating their children. This could be one of those cases that other than her being a young mom who enjoyed going out with her friends, had no real warning signs. And that is really scarier than otherwise, IMO...

Well, I don't know that I trust Shelby's young friends to know what a good parent looks like. I thought my best friend was an excellent mother. She got pregnant when we were 16. I raved about her skills. It's only in retrospect that I remember partying all night and getting up at 6:00 a.m. to the sound of her crying baby, who no one was coming to care for. After several minutes, it was me, not his great mom, who got up, made the bottle, fed and changed the baby, sick to death from tons of alcohol and two hours sleep, while his mother lay there totally passed out. (Yeah, we were not good kids.).

From the prism of adult eyes, why were two 17 year olds getting wasted? Why was a 17 year old mother getting wasted? Why was mom too drunk/exhausted to wake up when her baby cried for food?

Luckily, she loved her son a lot and never beat him but my understanding of what a good mother is has changed drastically from the time I was in my late teens, early twenties.
 
She had no work and wanted to sleep in from being out late what kind of support could she have received? It wasn't like she was a full time student and worked full time and was raising him alone and worked late and had to get up in the morning and then lost it.

What kind of support would you have offered her that would have stopped this? All mothers lose sleep. She was 20 not 16.

Her FB page said - if you disturbed her sleep she would kill you. well she did she killed her son because she is evil - you can't cure evil.

Thank you! And, she darn sure knew it was wrong! Claimed he was abducted after dumping his little body. Baby Tyler is the one who needed help....but, he's dead....all the hand wringing over his killer is not going to bring him back or make her less guilty.
 
I don't think Shelby killed her baby because she was stressed, or even because she was overtired, hung over or even angry.

SHELBY KILLED TYLER BECAUSE SHE HATED HIM....PERIOD....

She never loved him-never could have loved him to do this. She got pregnant to probably please her boyfriend and loved the attention she got with showers and friends and family fawning over sweet little Tyler. She had her mother help her with the tough stuff and she got all the fun "Teen Mom" play time. Once mom probably putting her foot down, Tyler no longer was useful to her. I think she wanted him dead for a long time and that morning just did it.

She pointed fingers at her ex. She thought she would get away with it and go back to her life as usual.

I am sorry for her friends who are trying to figure out how someone so loving can turn into a monster. But they've got it backwards. Shelby, IMO, never had a heart to begin with and fooled them all for a long time. No one with a heart could ever beat their baby to death and then leave him naked in a park and go home and back to sleep.
 
I love this picture... what a sweetie. God bless you, Tyler.

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http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...433914_309271342435953_1226985_84423962_n.jpg
 
Today I am going on about 3 hours of sleep so I apologize if I don’t make much sense (baby girl #2 is getting her first tooth and had a rough night). I know I have seen other posters say it but who thinks that hitting a crying baby will make them do anything but cry more??? What is wrong with people? Put the baby in a safe place and walk away until you are back in control of yourself. That is how you handle a crying baby. Whenever I read one of these cases I think back to a time when baby girl #1 was a little under a year. I could not keep her out of my house plants. I got so angry at her one day that every part of me wanted to hit her but instead I put her in her walker and ignored her for about 15 minutes. That night when I went to bed I couldn’t sleep because I felt so guilty for ignoring her. But it made me realize that if I felt that much guilt over what I did do, there was no way I could ever hit her out of anger and be able to justify it later. Now at almost 5 when she is driving me nuts – I think back to that day and I walk away. It was the best lesson that I have learned as a parent and something that I hope my girls learn from me.

BBM
This is exactly what some people seem to be missing, IMO when you shake a baby or kill a human being, you are not thinking clearly or rationally. Mental illness has such a negative stigma with it, heck for all we know SD could be suffering from post partum depression or psychosis. Believe me from experience I had PPOCD and no one even suspected anything was wrong with me.
 
Thank you! And, she darn sure knew it was wrong! Claimed he was abducted after dumping his little body. Baby Tyler is the one who needed help....but, he's dead....all the hand wringing over his killer is not going to bring him back or make her less guilty.

If hand-wringing over Tyler's mother saves one future baby from being beaten and dumped like garbage, how can anyone find fault with it? I don't see anyone on this thread saying Shelby deserves easy treatment no matter what her excuses might be. Shelby's guilt and the reason she killed her baby are two separate things, IMO. Ok, if the reason is that she is selfish and hateful, let's figure out how to stop producing selfish and hateful people. Let's talk about it. Let's research it. Let's STOP IT FROM HAPPENING.

How many people who read and comment on this thread do not share what they read with other people in their lives? Do your friends and family want to discuss dead babies with you? In my case, no. Nobody in my life wants this heavy weight on their hearts. It's painful. This, IMO, is part of the problem. There was a time when people wouldn't talk about cancer either, but then someone made it ok and now they are figuring out cures and preventions right and left.
 
She had no work and wanted to sleep in from being out late what kind of support could she have received? It wasn't like she was a full time student and worked full time and was raising him alone and worked late and had to get up in the morning and then lost it.

What kind of support would you have offered her that would have stopped this? All mothers lose sleep. She was 20 not 16.

Her FB page said - if you disturbed her sleep she would kill you. well she did she killed her son because she is evil - you can't cure evil.

Well, there is apparently a program in MO where moms in crisis can call and have someone care for their kids. Had that been better advertised, maybe it would have helped. Maybe she would have woken up and said, "You know? I'm going to whale on him if someone doesn't take him out of here. I'm calling that crisis number. Maybe then I can sleep."

I think the chances are slim that it would have helped in this, individual case but you never know.

We would have to stop babies from crying when they have parents who only think of themselves and want 10 hours on interupted sleep. We would have to teach babies not to interupt their mom's boyfriend when he is playing video games because they may get beat to death. We may have to teach children that if mom's boyfriend doesn't want you then you need to go find a new home before you end up dead. Or maybe we need to teach children how to take care of themselves so that mom doesn't get stressed out when she can't go out with her friends.

The problem is easy to understand. There are people in this world who don't care about their children or children and they abuse them and in the end kill them for their own selfish purposes with no remorse, just like rapist rape, murderers murder and thieves steal. mo

I like your post but I think it's a tad too simplistic. There is a ton to understand and there are many ways to prevent a Shelby Dasher from occurring.
 
I think we are doing all of the future babies of this world a terrible disservice if we don't try to understand it. Working to understand child abuse will hopefully lead to finding ways to prevent it. Understanding why someone does something doesn't negate their responsibility. It doesn't take away the sorrow and anger we all feel. It just, hopefully, saves some babies. What could be wrong with that?

Thanks button was not enough. Thank you so very much for this post. :heartbeat:
 

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