NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[Just K]

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=300943&position=1&news_type=news

Dormer says homicide squad members located the remains while on an amphibious machine in the thick brush. The remains were located on the surface.

Investigators say the area where the remains were found is impossible for anyone to navigate through.

That and the fact that her remains were found so near the OP makes the possibility of her getting pulled into a vehicle and dumped later much more likely than the theory that she ran through a place so impassible.

 

[scandi]

Maybe. By that reasoning though, they could also be hoping they don't find anything because it makes it look like they didn't look in the most obvious place. There have also been plenty of sarcastic remarks towards views that SG isn't related to GB4, or that she might have died by accident.
We only get a tenth of the picture though.



Here's the big question though. Why the hell didn't the FBI hyperspectral camera's pick her body up? Did the water wick away and dilute whatever trace elements it picks up?

Maybe her body wasn't there then.

 

[snapdragon2]

Well stated. The urge to tie Shannan Gilbert to the burlap killer is understandable. It was her disappearance that led to the finding of those corpses. Even more compellingly, her story possesses a density and dramatic detail otherwise absent. If websleuthers had only the narratives of Amber Lynn Costello or Megan Waterman, speculation would have long since dried up. Successful serial killers work hard to obliterate their victim's most relevant narratives.

But what explains the urge to DISTANCE her from the "burlap killer"?

 

[Sillybilly]

No one used the word "crazy" and what you're describing is precisely a conspiracy. Furthermore, your suggestion that police might be hoping that Shannan drowned is worse than sarcastic. That you too would be "praying she drown [sic]" doesn't reflect well, either.

Shannan's 23-minute phone call was rambling, sometimes incoherent, and didn't give a location. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of police work have been spent looking for Ms. Gilbert.

I don't think LE normally puts "hundreds and hundreds of hours of police work" into looking for other missing women, so presumably even LE thought SG's disappearance could be related to the SK ... damn conspiracy theorists, them

 

[Chanler]

:fence:

It's a crime scene.

so there ya go.

<modsnip>searches for bodies are routinely designated at crime scenes. <modsnip>.

 

[minazoe]

everyone needs to stay cool...there is nothing wrong with conspiracy theories and alternate scenarios...this is how we are as humans, and why we are able to stick with things to find the truth....if we all accepted everything at face value we would not be the extraordinary creatures that we are.

so until we have an absolute, all things are possible and we will continue to ruminate and respect Shannan's call for help as serious, true, and in need of a committed investigation.

 

[rosemary]

Chanler
Sorry but your explantion does not work for me, at all.
<modsnip>, we are talking about a large area that even grown up pro police officers gave up entering because of TWO reasons; TOO MUCH WATER and TOO OVERGROWN, Dormer contradicted himself several times today saying that it was IMPOSSIBLE to enter the area BOTH back in sping 2010 AND now, until they drained the water and cut down all the vegitation.
To then, at the same time, claim that it was possible for Shannan to do it is IMHO just really far out, and totaly unbelivable.

Does anyone know how deep the water was in that area back in May 2010?
We need to know!

maybe the police meant it was impossible to go all the way through to the other side to ocean parkway because the brambles were impossible to deal with. maybe Shannan drowned right near there and her body floated to the area where she has now been found. i think what the police are just trying to state and clarify is that it would be virtually impossible for anyone who may have wanted to kill Shannan, to navigate the area just to hide her body there. and think about it, why would the SK go to all that trouble to hide Shannan's body there instead of dumping her with the others in gilgo beach? that would have been way easier and more logical to begin with. and if it was the sk who killed shannan, how would he have known that she would run away from help? the LISK is apparently a very smart man who went to a lot of effort to hide his victim's identities so he wouldn't get caught. why didn't he do the same thing in Shannan's case, why did he dump her things in an area where he knew that the police would eventually search for? and as for the phone calls, if CPH was the serial killer, how would he have been able to navigate such a difficult terrain with his prosthetic leg and his uneven gait? it would be even more impossible for him to nagivate his way through the area than Shannan, given his age and his physical problems. some others have stated that the police wouldn't find Shannan's body in the marsh, but now that they (LE) may have found her in there, it seems like they still want to turn her death into something that fits more with their narrative. the police have more access, knowledge to information, to the terrain she was found in and the circumstances surrounding her death than us here.

 

[snapdragon2]

The marsh is more penetrable now because they are using heavy equipment.

Marsh becomes more tangled the more you wade in.

People want this to be a serial killer because the Shannan Gilbert narrative is the most complicated we have to play with. With all the named players, people can pretend that it's an Agatha Christie mystery.

It's easy; if your theory no longer fits, just add more conspirators. In this case, the police.

"People" want the TRUTH, and since no details have been released yet, we can't yet ascertain what the truth is - no-one can,<modsnip>. Therefore the discussion continues, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[minazoe]

<modsnip> searches for bodies are routinely designated at crime scenes. <modsnip>.

My grandmother was a homicide detective...so I think I know why there is a crime scene designation...

because there is a possible crime.:takeabow:

 

[Theforeigner]

So if it's unbelievable that Shannan was able to get in there is it also unbelievable that the SK could get in there?

If Shannan was murdered I belive the killer, at some point, dumped her from Ocean Parkway.

This is the yahoo map of the location where the remains where found.
Wheter the white object is the remains or not, the spot in the red circle is still the apox. location where the ramins where found. So her remains where very close to the Ocean Parkway.
And there seems to be some kind of path (I added 2 red lines there) that the killer could have used:

 

[rosemary]

Does being bi-polar preclude one's ever being taken seriously about anything? She ran out of a house screaming for help, in fear for her life, and then disappeared. Why isn't that being taken at face value? And she may in fact have been or drugs, she may in fact have been disoriented and incoherent - that doesn't mean she didn't have a reason to flee and/or think someone was after her. You know what they say - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't after you! Please don't act like it is unreasonable to question this and be suspicious. It obviously isn't. I am the farthest thing from a conspiracy theorist-type of person.

Do you know anyone who is bi-polar? People bandy that word around a lot, but don't in fact really know what it means. It's a lot more likely that it was the "down" aspect of being bi-polar, if anything, that would have affected Shannan if she didn't take her meds. People seem to think that people who are bi-polar flip into crazy, ultra-manic episodes and become raving maniacs at the drop of a pin. Not so! In fact, there's no evidence Shannan EVER had mania, never mind severe manic episodes. By all accounts, she was functioning just fine. We don't have details on this and it irritates me to no end that people take this one piece of information, which has never been fully expounded upon, and use it to essentially discredit her.

"A good detective story"? You think that scenario is fantastical, but I and others think the prospect of her drowning or dying somehow on her own in that brush is more fantastical. I don't say it's impossible. I say I'm going to need more information to be convinced of that - and we don't have it yet. We don't even know for certain if it's her. So it's a little to early to be belittling people for their suspicions, I would say.

One thing I do know - if they decide it was in fact an accidental drowning, they need to release the 911 call to the public.

okay, please explain this, if Shannan wasn't acting irrationally the night she went missing, why did she run away from help? she asked the neighbor to call the cops and as he was doing so, she ran off into the marsh. how is that being rational? most people would have probably stayed and waited for the police to arrive, or they'd have hidden inside the neighbor's house till help arrived. i don't think people are being biased against Shannan just because she was bipolar. i think it was her behavior that led many, including the witnesses who saw her, to question her state of mind that night, and given that she was also found to suffer from bipolar disorder and was known to take drugs, it's quite understandable why the LE would have come to that conclusion.

 

[KAYTOM]

The good news is that all the resources will now be focused on catching the sicko.

I really hope they are being super smart and extremely thorough. When I watched that case about the girl that vanished from the hotel I was pretty irritated to find out that the detectives didn't think to sync all the video camera times and it appeared that none of them watched the tapes to the degree that the private investigator that solved the case did.

What else do they have to go on? They can get his ping locations from all the times he called the victims right? I'm sure he used a burner phone, but I would think there would be some common denominators and he was surely one of the last ones to call the victim's phones.

This guy has to be on several surveillance cameras from some of the areas he called from. I read that the locations can be pinpointed to within 500 ft. Plus, these days surveillance cameras are everywhere. He's got to be on camera buying these phones too. How many 40 year-olds buy disposable phones?

The calls to MB's sister have to reveal something. Calling from a building vs a street. What about MB's locations? Her phone pinged two hotel locations. Was she working out of them before she met the SK or does the fact that it pinged two towers so close to eachother suggest that he might live somewhere in between the towers?

I don't think this guy is as smart as people are making him out to be. I think the whole cell phone forensics might have slipped his mind before MB's disappearance. Those ping locations from the two hotels might have been a little too close to his house for his own comfort.

 

[Chanler]

Does being bi-polar preclude one's ever being taken seriously about anything? She ran out of a house screaming for help, in fear for her life, and then disappeared. Why isn't that being taken at face value? And she may in fact have been or drugs, she may in fact have been disoriented and incoherent - that doesn't mean she didn't have a reason to flee and/or think someone was after her. You know what they say - just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't after you! Please don't act like it is unreasonable to question this and be suspicious. It obviously isn't. I am the farthest thing from a conspiracy theorist-type of person.

Do you know anyone who is bi-polar? People bandy that word around a lot, but don't in fact really know what it means. It's a lot more likely that it was the "down" aspect of being bi-polar, if anything, that would have affected Shannan if she didn't take her meds. People seem to think that people who are bi-polar flip into crazy, ultra-manic episodes and become raving maniacs at the drop of a pin. Not so! In fact, there's no evidence Shannan EVER had mania, never mind severe manic episodes. By all accounts, she was functioning just fine. We don't have details on this and it irritates me to no end that people take this one piece of information, which has never been fully expounded upon, and use it to essentially discredit her.

"A good detective story"? You think that scenario is fantastical, but I and others think the prospect of her drowning or dying somehow on her own in that brush is more fantastical. I don't say it's impossible. I say I'm going to need more information to be convinced of that - and we don't have it yet. We don't even know for certain if it's her. So it's a little to early to be belittling people for their suspicions, I would say.

One thing I do know - if they decide it was in fact an accidental drowning, they need to release the 911 call to the public.

Shannan's bipolar condition and cocaine & prescription drug abuse weren't just bandied about. They were mentioned from the first by Shannan's mother, sister, boyfriend, driver, and the Jersey City police.

I have known several people who have been diagnosed as being bipolar. One of my brother-in-laws, who I regard as a long-time friend, has been plagued by this disease for decades. Unlike some people here who seem to want to dismiss it as a factor, I can't.

Given Shannan's behavior that night according to multiple witnesses, her accidental death is much more plausible than detective story conspiracies that link Brewer, Pak, Hackett, and now the police.

 

[MrsPC]

I agree with others that it just seems extremely unlikely that Gilbert made it thru the brush/bramble/swamp/etc in the dark and wound up as far away from the OB housing area as she did.

According to the news photos - I've done another map photo showing the approx location of her remains.

It just seems unbelievable to me that she wound up there on her own.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113834351157927335749/LongIslandSerialKiller#5685780678213764210

 

[KAYTOM]

I agree with others that it just seems extremely unlikely that Gilbert made it thru the brush/bramble/swamp/etc in the dark and wound up as far away from the OB housing area as she did.

According to the news photos - I've done another map photo showing the approx location of her remains.

It just seems unbelievable to me that she wound up there on her own.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113834351157927335749/LongIslandSerialKiller#5685780678213764210

Thanks. Is it really that far down? Do we know the exact location her other items were found? Was it behind CH's house?

 

[stillwatersc]

maybe the police meant it was impossible to go all the way through to the other side to ocean parkway because the brambles were impossible to deal with.

That is the way I took it also when I read it. That she couldn't make it to the highway because it was impossible to go any further. Obviously she had to make it to where her body was and it would make more sense that she did it herself than someone carried her. I think it's possible someone could have chased her down & drowned her there but from LE's report it sounds unlikely or even impossible she was placed there. SG - if that is her they found - still died because LE didn't get there in time - and IMO LE is equally culpable in either scenario.

 

[kemo]

The identification (yea or neh) should be done pretty quick. Until then, all this is just speculation. I do find the hypothermia theory very possible. Most hypothermia deaths involve the victim being wet rather than particularly low tempretures. The evaporation of water is an endothermic reaction. This means that heat is drawn in from the surrounding enviorment (i.e. the surronding enviorment become cooler). That is why you shiver when you get wet. An example of this is a "primitive" cooler that can be made by hanging a wet burlap bag in the wind.(wind tends to speed evaportation) As the burlap dries, heat will be drawn from anything inside the bag. You just have to keep it wet; don't let it dry out. You can use that system to cool a six pack on a hot day.

This is also why it is so important to stay dry in cool weather. Wet clothes are far worse than no clothing. Persperation is frequently the source of moisture that leads to hypothermia.

A second factor associated with hypothermia is fatigue. As blood sugar drops and metabolic functions become spent, the body is less capible of offsetting lost body heat.

The classic situation where someone "dies of exposure" while lost outdoors usually involves exhaustion, being wet from either persperation or exposure to water and "cool weather" which can be anything under about 70, particularly if there is any wind.

Realistically, if SG was all wet and struggling to get across that marsh at night in that weather, hypothermia would be a likely outcome if she didn't find warmth and shelter within 1 to 2 hours.

 

[snapdragon2]

Chanler
Sorry but your explantion does not work for me, at all.
Please be realistic, we are talking about a large area that even grown up pro police officers gave up entering because of TWO reasons; TOO MUCH WATER and TOO OVERGROWN, Dormer contradicted himself several times today saying that it was IMPOSSIBLE to enter the area BOTH back in sping 2010 AND now, until they drained the water and cut down all the vegitation.
To then, at the same time, claim that it was possible for Shannan to do it is IMHO just really far out, and totaly unbelivable.

Does anyone know how deep the water was in that area back in May 2010?
We need to know!

This is what I'd like to know as well. They act like it was a lake. I know it's possible to drown in very little water, but I still think finding out what it was like is pertinent.

 

[rosemary]

If Shannan was murdered I belive the killer, at some point, dumped her from Ocean Parkway.

This is the yahoo map of the location where the remains where found.
Wheter the white object is the remains or not, the spot in the red circle is still the apox. location where the ramins where found. So her remains where very close to the Ocean Parkway.
And there seems to be some kind of path (I added 2 red lines there) that the killer could have used:

there was no path, otherwise the police would have searched that area from the beginning. they have consistently stated that it would be virtually impossible for anyone to go through the area where her body was found all the way to the other side.

 

[KAYTOM]

The bipolar and drugs is a GIGANTIC wild card. You can take her last actions at face value, but this wild card can is big enough to throw off the entire trajectory. If that makes any sense.

How many deadly accidents are precipitated by alcohol or drugs. That is not something you can dismiss IMO.