TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

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So, Matt told Gail that the police said that she had to have the kids back in 12-14 hours? Am I reading that right?
 
Now it all makes sense. The way I am reading it is that Gail wanted Signal Mountain to know she was on her way back so that they did not believe she had kidnapped the children.

Now, I wasnt present when the first responders spoke with Gail and Matt on the 29th of course. BUT, you cant kidnap your own children if no one has filed papers that include custody issues and, IIRC, only if a judge has issued Temporary Orders. Even then, it depends on who has physical custody.

So, imo, either Matt misunderstood or SMPD misunderstood the situation. So now we know why she returned from the lake house. Again, IMO.
 
Shelby1 said:
So, Matt told Gail that the police said that she had to have the kids back in 12-14 hours? Am I reading that right?
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Yes, and I wish LE would confirm whether they told her that or not. It is painfully obvious that she was terrified to the point of telling police that she was bringing them back so as not to be accused of kidnapping her own children. They said they will be releasing her sister's 911 call on the 11 pm news. Very sad development. IMO
 
believe09 said:
Now it all makes sense. The way I am reading it is that Gail wanted Signal Mountain to know she was on her way back so that they did not believe she had kidnapped the children.

Now, I wasnt present when the first responders spoke with Gail and Matt on the 29th of course. BUT, you cant kidnap your own children if no one has filed papers that include custody issues and, IIRC, only if a judge has issued Temporary Orders. Even then, it depends on who has physical custody.

So, imo, either Matt misunderstood or SMPD misunderstood the situation. So now we know why she returned from the lake house. Again, IMO.
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IMO. Yes, NOW we know WHY Gail came home early that morning and we also know WHY she called police to tell them the chidren were home but MP was not there but I cannot imagine a police officer telling Gail she had to have the chidren back within 12 - 14 hours especially when they gave her a number to a safe house on the 29th of April.....

Also..IIRC MP made mention in his latest interview the weekend of the 30th was suppose to be his weekend to have the chidren since Gail had her weekend with the children the weekend before.. IIRC he also stated at one point in that interview they were headed to Alabama on the weekend of Easter and the dispute was over him wanting to take separate cars so they would have time to talk.. IMHO..That statement made absolutely no sense, none whatsoever.. I also recall him stating he was going to go down to Alabama the next day... Did he go?

Personally I would like to see the officer who handled the report on the 29th interviewed..I would like to know WHY he would tell Gail she had to return the chidren the next day..I would think he wouldn't have...JMHO
 
I would love to know if LE told her she had to have her kids home in that time frame. I highly doubt that they would have told her that. They would not have the juristiction to tell her what to do regarding her kids; and I fear that Matt was playing her again. We will never know what transpired between these two, but I sincerely fear that MP played Gail and made her fear losing her children to him during a custody battle. Divorce can just be SO ugly.

:sigh:
 
It's really good to finally know why Gail felt she had to hurry back that day because it never made any sense before.

MP mentioned it in his interivew, but I'd really love to know where he got the idea that it would be kidnapping if she took the children to a home that MP also owned??? Did that really come from LE or say that just to manipulate the situation? And whose idea was the 12-14 hours because that's a very short timeframe considering how far away their lake house was from Signal.

He also mentioned the tornadoes and some awards ceremony. I wonder if he thought there was supposed to be an awards ceremony on that Saturday but it was canceled due to the tornado cleanup? There probably wasn't any real reason that the kids had to be back that day, so the whole thing still makes little sense to me.

My own transcription:

MATT PALMGREN: On the 30th (note: he means the 29th), I came home from the conference. I came home on the 30th. Uh . . . The alarms were changed. All the different codes were changed. I didn’t know what was going on. Didn’t know where my kids were. (smiling now) She said we/I (?) had taken off with the kids before without telling me. So I didn’t know what was going on. Had no idea. Uh . . . I guess, you know, she drove by the house. . . and I didn’t know where she was going but I was trying to call her numerous times. Alarms were going off in the house, as you might imagine.

And I got in the car and followed her up to where she was going, trying to beep and say ‘hey, I’m home.’ J had an awards ceremony that day if it wasn’t for the tornadoes. And she, uh, pulled into the Signal Mt. Police Department. So that report wasn’t even filed at the Signal Mt. Police Department and we didn’t even have words. She said she didn’t want to talk to us, she was worried about something, and she went back to the house.

I stayed there, per their request, and the police asked her to come back in 12 to 14 hours with the kids, and just have a cooling off period.

JOHN MADEWELL: What time of the day was it here at this point?

MATT PALMGREN: About 11:30

JOHN MADEWELL: On the 30th?

MATT PALMGREN: Mmmhmm.

JOHN MADEWELL: What happened after that?

MATT PALMGREN: After that, we agreed. She went back to the house. The police were concerned at how long it was taking her there. We knew she was moving some stuff out. (smiles and laughs). And then came back up . . . police asked me to go up to Pruett’s (Food Town) and wait. And I did as they requested. And, uh, she went down to the lake house with the kids and I was in communication with them through text or via cell phone to make sure they were okay.

JOHN MADEWELL: Let me make sure I understand this right. You said 11:30 . . . are you talking about the 29th?

MATT PALMGREN: The 29th. (nods in agreement)

JOHN MADEWELL: On the 30th, on the Saturday—

MATT PALMGREN: On Saturday, uh, the only communication she had, she asked me. . . where I was . . . J called me and said they were on their way back. I said great—we were going to spend the weekend together. Gail and I agreed (smiling) that it was Dad’s weekend, since last weekend was Mom’s weekend. (smiles) And she called me, she came back and asked how long it was going to take for me to get there. Got up there and, uh, the kids were there. We’re just talkin’ and . . . there was no communication between Gail and I. On the 30th.

JOHN MADEWELL: Did you physically see her on the 30th?

MATT PALMGREN: No. (shakes head no)

JOHN MADEWELL: My understanding was from the Sheriff that at 12:15 you were at home?

MATT PALMGREN: I was at home, yes sir.

JOHN MADEWELL: And at noon, where were you?

MATT PALMGREN: We stood there and talked about what we were going to do because the weekend before I didn’t get to see—

Man’s voice off camera (Attorney Hoss?): I think he’s asking you were you were at 12 o’clock?

MATT PALMGREN: Oh, at 12 o’clock I was downtown. My Mom ran some errands. We were at a boutique store down on the North Shore. And that’s when we received the phone call saying where were you and I said I’ll be up there in about 20 minutes.

JOHN MADEWELL: So she was already at the house?

MATT PALMGREN: She was almost there or was there.

JOHN MADEWELL: And she left the kids, is that right?

MATT PALMGREN: She left the kids. She said she was going out to make some phone calls, uh, to her cousin, Sherry. That’s what the kids told me. That’s when we sat there and called her to find out where she was and what she was planning on. And she’s taken off to the lake house before from Louisville when we lived there, as well as when we lived in Birmingham. Just kind of went there for her peace of mind. So we kind of thought that’s where she went. So we spent the day together after that.

JOHN MADEWELL: When you didn’t see her on that Saturday, how much time passed before you started becoming concerned or when did you . . .

MATT PALMGREN: The kids and I texted her, said . . . you know, there’s been patterns of this before. Said ‘we hope you’re okay’ . . . everything else . . . uh, find out what you’re thinkin’. Uh, she said she was going to spend the weekend down there and the kids were mine for the weekend. We were going to do baseball games, bike riding and everything else.

And uh, I got a phone call Monday morning from her sister and Arlene saying ‘file a missing person, file a missing person’ . . . and I’m like, why? She’s at the lake house. (smiles) And . . . that’s where she is.

JOHN MADEWELL: This is Arlene Durham saying this?

MATT PALMGREN: Right.

JOHN MADEWELL: What did you think when Ms. Durham said that?

MATT PALMGREN: I said, ‘Arlene, how did . . . Gail’s down there.’ “Nope, I’ve been following your . . . lake house.” And I said ‘why are you following? What’s going on at my lake house and stuff?’ You know, and she just started ragging me that she knows it and she’s been over there and stuff. And I’m like ‘why have you been over there at our house?’ (smiling) You know. So finally I said ‘okay, if you guys are that concerned, I’ll go file it.’ So of course, I went right up the mountain about literally an hour after that conversation to, um, file a missing persons report with Officer Miranda.
 
Melodie said:
Yes, and I wish LE would confirm whether they told her that or not. It is painfully obvious that she was terrified to the point of telling police that she was bringing them back so as not to be accused of kidnapping her own children. They said they will be releasing her sister's 911 call on the 11 pm news. Very sad development. IMO
Click to expand...

That deadline wasn't in the paper reports filed, and per the Callie Starnes article today Gail said she didn't remember LE telling her about this 12 hour time limit. We discussed this quite a bit on WS at the time because there was a rumor (which has been proven true now that the call has been released) that Matt told her she had to bring the kids back after 12 hours. And of course there was that message Matt left on her sister's voice mail about 12 hours, too. I personally doubt LE told her she had a 12 hour time limit, and I very much doubt Matt just accidentally misunderstood.

My personal opinion is that LE didn't release this info until now because they didn't want it to look like Matt was a suspect. Now that they've officially called it an accident, though, there is no such worry on their part.

This phone call is yet another example of why people believe(d) that Matt was involved in some way, and why they still do. We're not pulling these theories out of thin air, folks. We have seen how Gail felt threatened, we've heard the inconsistent things Matt has said in court docs and that interview, we know some of what his lawyers and PI did. You have to do a lot of "creative" thinking to dismiss all of the weirdness and coincidences that plagued this case from day one. :twocents:
 
believe09 said:
This post lands at random-

LE has made a determination on this case, so no more accusations can be made regarding any of the case players. Known behaviors can be discussed and certainly the details of the accident report but please dont even allude to accusations of criminal behavior.

Thank you!
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Bumpity
 
IIRC Matt P came home early on Friday April 29th. Anyone recall from the police report what time Gail met with SMPD on the 29th?
Let just say Gail was at the SMPD between 12:00 pm and 3:00 pm on the 29th of April.. Does anyone actually believe LE told Gail to return the children between midnight and 3:00 am on the morning of April 30th...I feel certain LE didn't call her or text her between 10:00pm ( the 29th) and midnight (on the 30th) and demand she have the children home by noon on the 30th?
...JMHO..
 
My two cents: Gail's fall from the bluff is perhaps a "tragic accident" as the report said.

But this 911 call released in the MSM now proves she might have returned home to the mountain based on some erroneous information. The police surely knew she wasn't kidnapping her children, and they knew where she was going and how long it would take to drive there and back again. Plus it was the weekend and no school till Monday.

Gail didn't have to be there that day, period.
 
IMHO...MP played Gail like a puppet on a string...and she was willing to do what it took to keep the peace.

How totally sad...whether Gail's death was accidental or otherwise...I do know that significant others can go "crazy" when they think the female partner is going to take their children away from them, not to mention, a large portion of their financial resources in the form of child support, alimony, vehicles, homes, etc. etc. etc. Add to that scenario, control issues and alcohol abuse issues and you have a potentially deadly combination.

IMO, Gail's husband was not home at 12:15 on 4/30...I think it is quite plausible that their paths crossed on that fateful day...I will leave it at that...
 
ThoughtFox said:
My two cents: Gail's fall from the bluff is perhaps a "tragic accident" as the report said.

But this 911 call released in the MSM now proves she might have returned home to the mountain based on some erroneous information. The police surely knew she wasn't kidnapping her children, and they knew where she was going and how long it would take to drive there and back again. Plus it was the weekend and no school till Monday.

Gail didn't have to be there that day, period.
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You're exactly right!

There was no court order in place giving specific instructions as to when and where Gail could have the children alone with her. MP and Gail were still married, tmk, neither had filed for a divorce, yet, so there were no parenting plans in place. Either one was free to take the children where and when they felt like it, within reason of course. The police may have suggested a time frame, but they certainly could not have mandated a time frame nor could MP, legally...All, IMHOO!
 
Some1Nose said:
You're exactly right!

There was no court order in place giving specific instructions as to when and where Gail could have the children alone with her. MP and Gail were still married, tmk, neither had filed for a divorce, yet, so there were no parenting plans in place. Either one was free to take the children where and when they felt like it, within reason of course. The police may have suggested a time frame, but they certainly could not have mandated a time frame nor could MP, legally...All, IMHOO!
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Another reason I'm glad about the 911 call is that it wasn't a "crazy call" or something irrational. There was a very clear and specific reason she called LE - to get it on the record that she was complying with the 12-14 hour request. She probably felt that was important so she couldn't be accused later of breaking rules or acting irresponsibly.

So to me, at that moment, her behavior and what she is saying all seems in order, and also seems like a rational way of dealing with the stress she must have been under that day. :twocents:
 
ThoughtFox said:
My two cents: Gail's fall from the bluff is perhaps a "tragic accident" as the report said.

But this 911 call released in the MSM now proves she might have returned home to the mountain based on some erroneous information. The police surely knew she wasn't kidnapping her children, and they knew where she was going and how long it would take to drive there and back again. Plus it was the weekend and no school till Monday.

Gail didn't have to be there that day, period.
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No, but it's obvious, imo, MP wanted the children there..period. Whether his thinking GP wanted to "kidnap" the children is just a bunch of fabricated hooyie for control or he did have plans for the w/e with the children and wasn't going to compromise it for any reason.

JMO Gail, after leaving SM, was planning on staying there because of AD's xhubby b'day party, etc. She got a call or text from either Diane or MP saying she better come home. MP was using the heavy hand of the "supposed" agreement with LE to force it into play. It worked and Gail caved in out of fear, imo. She didn't HAVE to bring the kids back, and prolly didn't know the awards presentation had been cancelled for J, but you would think he would have mentioned it to her on the way down. ?? None of it jives, from what AD or MP has stated. ??:waitasec:

I think the bottom line is: Gail wanted a week-end at the lake for her, MP and the kids. Not sure if it was to feel the waters for a rekindling of the relationship or if she was at the point of wanting him and? her to have a place to tell the children about a separation. ?? (that could have been handled in SM, imo) BUT, it always came to resistance/argument/call to LE....and MP didn't have to go. Look at all the circumstances surrounding his not wanting to go to the lake house. Didn't want to drive with her down there, but with the children in a separate vehicle, etc. There was always a dispute on Friday when plans for the w/e came into play. Everyone's expectations were not being met. JMO

THEN....you have to take into consideration what had transpired the week before (as we know it) OY!....

MP = "conference" with TH, etc.

GP = Had information gathered by her PI.

I keep thinking of other things. lol Gail supposedly had all her ducks in a row...so what would have happened if at that point on Fri night she just up and said "OK, it's over, your filing on Tues....so why don't you just leave now and we can work out the particulars of you gathering what you need from the house later this week-end." ? He could go to a hotel of familiarity downtown or to his mother and have his time with the children on Sat and/or Sun. Many state that MP wanted out, but no way in hello do I believe he would have taken her up on it. Nope, not, nadda, not a dip.

Ok enough for one post....:innocent: ETA: Gail was afraid to be by herself without the kids.. I truly, truly believe that...and confirmed, for me, since the accident was immediately after she dropped the kids off. imo, jmo, etc.
 
Well- listening to that tape it didn't sound like Gail was afraid of anyone following her at the time or she didn't tell LE anyone had threatened her or that she felt that she was in any danger at the time. As a matter of fact-I haven't heard her voice before-but her voice sounded calm. I was married 21 years and never went through a divorce-but from other friends and people I know who have-both of the Palmgrens were probably at the stage of trying to one-up each other and making it a point to let the other person know that they don't or won't have anything to use against the other.

So-to me it seems like she was making an effort to let LE know she was returning the children so he couldn't lie about it in the future. I'll bet he was doing the same things where she was concerned. I wasn't there so I don't know if LE told them that or not about when to have the children back-but I'll bet they both were playing games with each other.
 
Willow57 said:
Well- listening to that tape it didn't sound like Gail was afraid of anyone following her at the time or she didn't tell LE anyone had threatened her or that she felt that she was in any danger at the time. As a matter of fact-I haven't heard her voice before-but her voice sounded calm. I was married 21 years and never went through a divorce-but from other friends and people I know who have-both of the Palmgrens were probably at the stage of trying to one-up each other and making it a point to let the other person know that they don't or won't have anything to use against the other.

So-to me it seems like she was making an effort to let LE know she was returning the children so he couldn't lie about it in the future. I'll bet he was doing the same things where she was concerned. I wasn't there so I don't know if LE told them that or not about when to have the children back-but I'll bet they both were playing games with each other.
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I noticed that she sounded calm, too. I am wondering if that was a facade because the children were present and she did not want to scare them.
 
When I listened to the 911 recording I didn't get the impression that Gail was paranoid, but rather I got the impression that Gail was calm and in complete control of herself at the time of the call. I didn't get the impression that she was afraid or in fear of her life. I got the impression she was just covering herself in case she missed what the police officer had said the day before when MP told her that the police office said she had to have the kids back within 12-14 hours. To me she was just covering her bases in case MP wanted to make something of it. She didn't sound like anyone who would do anything irrational either. Now when I was going through my divorce when I lived in Knoxville and people were breaking into my house continuiously or trying to run me off mountain roads you would have been able to tell that I was extremely rattled and stressed to the point of breaking. I was very emotional and talked extremely fast. You would have be able to know I was shaking as I talked. I didn't catch any of that in Gail's voice.
 
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