**Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

[hindsight2020]

I believe in the jury instructions, the judge said that if they believe it was two people, including the defendant or the accused, and that they believe he may have done the crime in coercion with another, that he would be guilty or they both would be guilty.

IMHO, the fact is to me, JY's size 12 Orbital WAS at the scene of the crime DURING the crime, so the second shoe size 10 isn't even significant to me. Whether he brought or wore size 10 to throw LE off or if he was WITH someone else.

IMHO, he's guilty. I highly doubt someone helped him. These types usually don't tell a soul what they're up to. Look how JY lied to his friends about the weekend he went to Florida. Well, until AFTER it was all over.

JMHO
fran

I concur fran. . . JY never spoke to police, family, friends, insurance adjusters, no funeral arrangements, didn't answer WDS, etc, spoke to no one except his lawyers, until such time he had access to what was held against him. . .this is telling, the guy can keep a secret, I too, highly doubt the 2 person theory.

 

[CGW]

Then who did?

Sorry, I'd love to respond, but I'm confused by your question to my quote....who did what?

 

[Lucky89]

If I recall correctly, she did not speak to the traffic cop. I think the traffic cop testified that he spoke with Jason only, but that Michelle did disagree with the report.

Right, people wonder why she would not speak up and say hey, he is lying I did not have my seatbelt on. Honest or dishonest, I have lied about having my seatbelt on before and I have worked for LE.

 

[gracielee]

I concur fran. . . JY never spoke to police, family, friends, insurance adjusters, no funeral arrangements, didn't answer WDS, etc, spoke to no one except his lawyers, until such time he had access to what was held against him. . .this is telling, the guy can keep a secret, I too, highly doubt the 2 person theory.

That's true, except he did speak to his mother about that medicine dropper in CY's bedroom. We know that because PY told Spivey that 'jason said his fingerprints would be on that bottle/dropper'. Makes me wonder what else JY might have told PY. :what: And why was that the *only* thing jason zeroed in on? The photos of that medicine bottle and dropper in CY's bedroom obviously had him concerned. :moo:

 

[otto]

Right, people wonder why she would not speak up and say hey, he is lying I did not have my seatbelt on. Honest or dishonest, I have lied about having my seatbelt on before and I have worked for LE.

Much has been made of the fact that Jason lied about his adultery and more. If we are to believe that Michelle was not wearing her seatbelt, then we have to believe that even though she knew Jason lied about whether she was wearing a seatbelt, she went along with it. Unfortunately, that places other statements by Michelle in question too ... not what we want in her murder investigation.

 

[Lucky89]

Much has been made of the fact that Jason lied about his adultery and more. If we are to believe that Michelle was not wearing her seatbelt, then we have to believe that even though she knew Jason lied about whether she was wearing a seatbelt, she went along with it. Unfortunately, that places other statements by Michelle in question too ... not what we want in her murder investigation.

How does lying about adultery compare to lying about a seatbelt? Everybody has told little white lies every now and then. IMO

 

[hindsight2020]

Some things that are not viewed as "maybe" or "could" or "possible":

*JY's HP shoes were indeed at the crime scene and were the shoes that made the bloody shoe print - the DT admitted that.
*JY did admit to leaving his Hampton Inn room 3 times without a key card.
*JY was 30 minutes late for his next morning's appointment.
*JY was in a volatile marriage.
*JY was having a marital affair
*JY did indicate that he was in love with another woman.
*JY had a bad relationship with his mother-in-law and did NOT want her to live with them
*JY did buy $2M in life insurance against his wife's life.
*Cassidy was not harmed.
*The house at Birchleaf was not broken into.
*There was no bloody trail from the upstairs to the downstairs and out the door.
*JY was on the internet and did visit a sports website the night of 11/2/2006 just before he went to the lobby at midnight to see sports scores in the USA Today.
*JY was not known to have ever smoked a cigar
*JY was carrying a computer carrying bag (computer charger excuse)
*JY did have his phone turned off between midnight and 7:30am (or so)
*The shirt JY wore in the lobby at midnight were never seen again.
*The HP shoes were never been seen again.

List continues:

*Gave up custody of Cassidy
*Did not answer WDS
*Called his mother 28x by 1:30pm the day of the murder, just to have his SIL retrieve some insignificant piece of paper at his house.
*Trip to Raleigh and back to hotel is totally feasible within the time constraints and the last time he was seen on video at midnight, then he was never ever seen/heard from again or accounted for again until his call in the am to his momma or MM, can't recall who he called first.
*Increased a 2M policy to 4M two months prior to the murder.

 

[LOMom]

Looks smaller than what hes carrying in his hands....

Looks like a paper to me.. Bending to easy to be an atlas...

First point: The thing in his hand is too wide to be a folded newspaper (obviously, it wasn't an unfolded newspaper).

Second point: the bend tells me that it's more likely the atlas than the newspaper. You see, he's holding it by one end only. A newspaper is light and would not bend like that. On the other hand, an atlas is heavier and by holding it on one end, it would cause the other end to bend due to the weight.

 

[LOMom]

List continues:

*Gave up custody of Cassidy
*Did not answer WDS
*Called his mother 28x by 1:30pm the day of the murder, just to have his SIL retrieve some insignificant piece of paper at his house.
*Trip to Raleigh and back to hotel is totally feasible within the time constraints and the last time he was seen on video at midnight, then he was never ever seen/heard from again or accounted for again until his call in the am to his momma or MM, can't recall who he called first.
*Increased a 2M policy to 4M two months prior to the murder.

Good additions!

 

[Lucky89]

List continues:

*Gave up custody of Cassidy
*Did not answer WDS
*Called his mother 28x by 1:30pm the day of the murder, just to have his SIL retrieve some insignificant piece of paper at his house.
*Trip to Raleigh and back to hotel is totally feasible within the time constraints and the last time he was seen on video at midnight, then he was never ever seen/heard from again or accounted for again until his call in the am to his momma or MM, can't recall who he called first.
*Increased a 2M policy to 4M two months prior to the murder.

IMO. If I tried to call someone 3 or 4 times and my calls kept dropping due to coverage why would I keep trying until I got to a location that my cell phone would pick up. What was so important to tell Mama that could not wait???

 

[gracielee]

Much has been made of the fact that Jason lied about his adultery and more. If we are to believe that Michelle was not wearing her seatbelt, then we have to believe that even though she knew Jason lied about whether she was wearing a seatbelt, she went along with it. Unfortunately, that places other statements by Michelle in question too ... not what we want in her murder investigation.

Michelle Young had told many people, including her therapist, that 'she had to fix herself'. That 'jason young told her on numerous occasions that everything was her fault, and *she* had to fix herself before he would go to couples therapy. I can't for the life of me expect her to contradict what her husband told the crash scene investigator that day. They were NOT seperated and questioned. And from what was testified to in court, only jason spoke to the investigator. Shelly Schaad testified that Michelle was worried about that accident. That michelle had called her and asked her about the effect it could have on the baby she was carrying. I'd guess that was what was foremost in her mind after that crash. Something like a seatbelt would be far down the totem pole in michelle's concerns immediately following the crash IMO. The fact that later on, after the initial shock and fear, all the people she spoke to she gave the same story. That she was not wearing her seatbelt, had just unbuckled it, etc. She never attempted to claim anything else. The baby she was carrying was the most important thing in her mind that day. MOO

 

[Talina]

Much has been made of the fact that Jason lied about his adultery and more. If we are to believe that Michelle was not wearing her seatbelt, then we have to believe that even though she knew Jason lied about whether she was wearing a seatbelt, she went along with it. Unfortunately, that places other statements by Michelle in question too ... not what we want in her murder investigation.

Such as what? I'm curious what statements you are referencing.

 

[CGW]

That makes sense to me too. He would have left all sorts of size 10 footprints only. Isnt that what the other guy did that killed his parents?

IMO

My theory is that JY never intended for the HP shoes to leave prints. Those were his "clean" shoes to change into when the murder was over. Once he had his clean HP's on, he was surprised to find CY standing by her Mommy in a pool of blood. He instinctively went to get her and of course in the process left his bloody HP prints. That's why JY had to move MY so he could get into his closet and get another pair of clean shoes now that he dirtied up the HP's he had with him to have a clean get away. 2 shoe prints...one during the murder (Franklins) and one after murder while retrieving CY (HP's). 1 murderer...not 2! Think about it. Had JY seen CY enter the scene and approach her Mommy he would have intercepted her before she got to the blood. He was busy cleaning up and changing and didn't see when CY walked over to her Mommy. This was NOT part of his plan and that is why I think there are 2 sets of prints. Those HP's are with the Franklin shoes in a trashbag with the dark shirt, CY's diaper, the murder weapon, and 2 jewerly box drawers in a landfill somewhere! JMO

 

[LOMom]

Such as what? I'm curious what statements you are referencing.

Much has been made of the fact that Jason lied about his adultery and more. If we are to believe that Michelle was not wearing her seatbelt, then we have to believe that even though she knew Jason lied about whether she was wearing a seatbelt, she went along with it. Unfortunately, that places other statements by Michelle in question too ... not what we want in her murder investigation.

The testimony is that Michelle was NOT questioned by the traffic cop. He only spoke with Jason. So, she did not make statements about not wearing a seat belt.

 

[Talina]

The testimony is that Michelle was NOT questioned by the traffic cop. He only spoke with Jason. So, she did not make statements about not wearing a seat belt.

Yes.

I'm wondering what statements Otto is saying should come in to question now if we are to believe that she did not dispute the statement given to the trooper. IIRC the trooper said he interviewed JY and did not speak to MY separately but that she was there and did not dispute. Well, that comes as no surprise to me that she did not dispute what he said. JY had plenty of time to let MY know she was to let him handle the accident report. If anyone thinks that she is going to go against what he said at that time, in the emotional state she was likely in, is just not being very realistic, IMO.

So, I am wondering what statements that he feels Michelle made that should now come into question. Personally, for me that is a far stretch to make that connection as far as any statements that are testimony that were made by Michelle. I really don't recall many at all to be honest.

IMO

 

[Just the Fax]

My theory is that JY never intended for the HP shoes to leave prints. Those were his "clean" shoes to change into when the murder was over. Once he had his clean HP's on, he was surprised to find CY standing by her Mommy in a pool of blood. He instinctively went to get her and of course in the process left his bloody HP prints. That's why JY had to move MY so he could get into his closet and get another pair of clean shoes now that he dirtied up the HP's he had with him to have a clean get away. 2 shoe prints...one during the murder (Franklins) and one after murder while retrieving CY (HP's). 1 murderer...not 2! Think about it. Had JY seen CY enter the scene and approach her Mommy he would have intercepted her before she got to the blood. He was busy cleaning up and changing and didn't see when CY walked over to her Mommy. This was NOT part of his plan and that is why I think there are 2 sets of prints. Those HP's are with the Franklin shoes in a trashbag with the dark shirt, CY's diaper, the murder weapon, and 2 jewerly box drawers in a landfill somewhere! JMO

Could be CGW. The only problem I have is the bloody mess after the attempted strangulation. It does not seem he intended to have blood on the floor to track, but maybe he did. He apparently brought a bludgeoning weapon of some sort, so perhaps he anticipated moving to plan B, if the strangulation failed.

 

[CGW]

The state's case is built on "maybe's" , "could have's" and "possibles".

Jason "could" have drugged CY.
CY "maybe" witnessed the murder.
It was "possible" Jason drove close to 3 hours back to Raleigh.

Or, the following which were all proven wrong:

The NTO was issued because there "could" have been injurires consistent on Jason's body of being in a struggle.
The search warrant was issued for his SUV cause 'maybe" there was blood inside.
Another search warrant was issued to see if the Young's were having "possible" financial difficulties.

You cannot say with 100% certainty ANY of the above things you listed without have a video of the events! This is why CE is allowed. It is why you shouldn't have to rely solely on direct evidence when determining someone's guilt. I agree with all of the statements you listed here, and I am comfortable with the totalilty of the CE to convict JY on 1st degree murder. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe in the jury instructions, the judge said that if they believe it was two people, including the defendant or the accused, and that they believe he may have done the crime in coercion with another, that he would be guilty or they both would be guilty.

IMHO, the fact is to me, JY's size 12 Orbital WAS at the scene of the crime DURING the crime, so the second shoe size 10 isn't even significant to me. Whether he brought or wore size 10 to throw LE off or if he was WITH someone else.

IMHO, he's guilty. I highly doubt someone helped him. These types usually don't tell a soul what they're up to. Look how JY lied to his friends about the weekend he went to Florida. Well, until AFTER it was all over.

JMHO
fran

Did the first jury come out and say what hung them up where they voted 8 to 4 to aquit? Usually in a hung jury we will see one or two holdouts but not 8 that voted NG.

Something had to be bothering them for that many to vote for NG.

So I do wonder if part of it was the shoe evidence. Now if the State from the get go had said that he acted in concert with another that would be another matter and putting in evidence of another suspect involved but that has not been the case in this trial. The State has said that JY planned, plotted and carried out this murder alone. All of the evidence entered has been about JY and no one else.

If I was a juror and the State had presented a theory that JY acted alone yet at the end they then wanted me to believe he acted in concert with someone else I would be rather confused and question the theory they presented in their CIC.

To me the State must be consistent during the entire case and they were. No where did they tell this jury that another suspect was involved. Yet now when the verdict is to be rendered they want the jury to believe something else and that he had help. Those are two counter-opposing theories, imo.

IMO

 

[otto]

Could be CGW. The only problem I have is the bloody mess after the attempted strangulation. It does not seem he intended to have blood on the floor to track, but maybe he did. He apparently brought a bludgeoning weapon of some sort, so perhaps he anticipated moving to plan B.

If he didn't intend for the scene to be messy, why would he have size 10 shoes with him, why would he be wearing them?

He may not have brought a weapon with him, he may have had nothing but a flashlight with him ... a flashlight would match the injuries.

 

[CGW]

Just like that 48 hours piece..made sure they were heel to toe, so size would not be in doubt. Interesting the HP shoes were partial prints, visible only with luminol.

Yes, they were partial prints b/c there weren't supposed to get bloody and JY had to tiptoe/manuever through the crime scene when he had to retrieve CY from beside her mother's body and try to avoid getting blood on them...he failed! This was a surprise element IMO and JY hadn't planned on CY appearing after he cleaned up and bagged up the bloody clothes/shoes and put on his clean get away outfit. That's why he had to move MY's body to get into his closet and get another pair of clean shoes b/c now he was going to have to ditch his HP's! NOT IN HIS PLAN! JMO