**Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

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Makes perfect sense to me, and it must have at one time to the state, because they issued a search warrant for Michelle's Lexus thinking the very same thing, that CY had been taken from the home........

Yes, and they even suspected at that time the person could have been MF yet after she answered every and all questions and took and passed a polygraph that scenario did not fit. It shows the LE were doing their job at looking at everyone close to the victim. Then BC continued in his cross of MF to suggest she was not truthful when he challenged every line of the 911 call. I still find that despicable tactics.
 
Yes, and they even suspected at that time the person could have been MF yet after she answered every and all questions and took and passed a polygraph that scenario did not fit. It shows the LE were doing their job at looking at everyone close to the victim. Then BC continued in his cross of MF to suggest she was not truthful when he challenged every line of the 911 call. I still find that despicable tactics.

I totally agree Grammy Jean, that is what investigators are paid to do investigate.
 
In the scuba diving murder, the motive was alleged to be insurance because the wife had insurance and the husband had supposedly asked her to name him the beneficiary. She had not done that. The case was dismissed because he had no access to the insurance - regardless of whether he believed he did at the time of the murder.

It seems to me that Jason had no access to the insurance after the murder because of his status as a suspect ... and the husband is always a suspect ... so for me, that kind of extinguishes insurance money as a motive.

No, that case was dismissed due to much more than a lack of motive. Especially since motive is not an element of murder. It was lack of evidence.

But again, a murderer will likely believe that the focus will die down, if any is placed on them at all, and eventually, they will be able to collect. I don't know what the slayer statute in North Carolina is, with regard to life insurance. I doubt Jason knew either. Does it bar collection on a policy if one is merely suspected or does there need to be a conviction, ultimately?

I read an e-mail purported to be from Jason after the murders indicating that indeed, he believed this would all just die down. If he did this, then I think it is safe to assume he believed he would eventually be able to collect.

I don't see how Jason's subsequent lack of access to the proceeds due to his status as a suspect, extinguishes insurance monies as a motive at all. Again, murderers often see things playing out a certain way and are surprised when they don't. If it was certain to not be as easy as a murderer envisions it to be, few people would commit the crime. Murder is not reasonable, no matter how slick the suspect seems to be.
 
HELP!!! I am confuzzzed!

I don't get the whole seatbealt debate. Did Michelle suffer a miscarriage after the accident? Was this accident in 2005 or 2006? If it was in 2006 (June) How was she 20 weeks pregnant on Nov 3rd? That is a REALLY tight timeline! Not impossible after a miscarriage but...
back to the seatbelt... what if MY had just slipped the shoulder strap off and only had the lap belt on still? My friend suffered a HORRIBLE pelvis fracture that way in a wreck. (so much so she was NOT able to EVER have a child due to having to have pins in her pelvis.)

NO seatbelt IMO adds up to less chance of internal groin injury (if she slipped out of shoulder strap to reach back)~ and technically didn't "take her seat belt off."
 
No, that case was dismissed due to much more than a lack of motive. Especially since motive is not an element of murder. It was lack of evidence.

But again, a murderer will likely believe that the focus will die down, if any is placed on them at all, and eventually, they will be able to collect. I don't know what the slayer statute in North Carolina is, with regard to life insurance. I doubt Jason knew either. Does it bar collection on a policy if one is merely suspected or does there need to be a conviction, ultimately?

I read an e-mail purported to be from Jason after the murders indicating that indeed, he believed this would all just die down. If he did this, then I think it is safe to assume he believed he would eventually be able to collect.

I don't see how Jason's subsequent lack of access to the proceeds due to his status as a suspect, extinguishes insurance monies as a motive at all. Again, murderers often see things playing out a certain way and are surprised when they don't. If it was certain to not be as easy as a murderer envisions it to be, few people would commit the crime. Murder is not reasonable, no matter how slick the suspect seems to be.

BBM

And for those of us to apply reasonable thinking to try to figure out a murderer's thoughts and actions is probably an exercise in futility.

IMO
 
Why are some people's old posts being reposted?

:confused:

Because we get antsy. There are a lot of folks here invested both ways. We are a victim's board first, a logic board second, but one of the things that takes precedence over everything is that we want to "know".

That wasn't a call-out, it was an example of someone making sure how to respond.

All though, it was a little snippy in here yesterday and I ran off.

Threw a post up in the hook area for guilt with my thoughts and reservations (briefly).

Sorry that I seem to be answering for others, but it's Verdict Watch. It gets a little :bang head: and :jail: and :truce: and :woohoo: and :rocker: and :fence: and :maddening: and :maddening: and :moo: and :please: at times.

There's some other users who can describe it better. I just tend to be: :maddening:
 
Ok so we went to the DG.... Hubby tried on a 10 and just as we thought... Did not work.. Oh he could slip his foot in but the heel was hanging over a bit.... The shoe was tight also.... He could walk a min or 2 in the shoe but he said he didn't believe he could beat someone to death wearing a shoe like that.... Your foot would slip at some point during the beating and be in the blood... Oh yea the laces were undone a bit also... Im sure someone will find fault in what we did but oh well it is what it is... It proved my point!!!

I wanted to take pics and he said no way.... He did not even want to try the shoes on... He said he has no dog in the fight, but from what little bit he has read or heard he also thinks hes NG...


Now its been fun posting with ya'll for the past wk or so, but I need to really start getting back to work here... I got 3 fundraisers I need to get graphics done for... I'll still be around Cammy & fromageball, but just not as much...
 
Because we get antsy. There are a lot of folks here invested both ways. We are a victim's board first, a logic board second, but one of the things that takes precedence over everything is that we want to "know".

That wasn't a call-out, it was an example of someone making sure how to respond.

All though, it was a little snippy in here yesterday and I ran off.

Threw a post up in the hook area for guilt with my thoughts and reservations (briefly).

Sorry that I seem to be answering for others, but it's Verdict Watch. It gets a little :bang head: and :jail: and :truce: and :woohoo: and :rocker: and :fence: and :maddening: and :maddening: and :moo: and :please: at times.

There's some other users who can describe it better. I just tend to be: :maddening:


Just wondering.

Otto is such a great poster, and brings so much to the board..that's all.

:)
 
Ok so we went to the DG.... Hubby tried on a 10 and just as we thought... Did not work.. Oh he could slip his foot in but the heel was hanging over a bit.... The shoe was tight also.... He could walk a min or 2 in the shoe but he said he didn't believe he could beat someone to death wearing a shoe like that.... Your foot would slip at some point during the beating and be in the blood... Oh yea the laces were undone a bit also... Im sure someone will find fault in what we did but oh well it is what it is... It proved my point!!!

I wanted to take pics and he said no way.... He did not even want to try the shoes on... He said he has no dog in the fight, but from what little bit he has read or heard he also thinks hes NG...


Now its been fun posting with ya'll for the past wk or so, but I need to really start getting back to work here... I got 3 fundraisers I need to get graphics done for... I'll still be around Cammy & fromageball, but just not as much...


Thank you so much !!!
:)
 
OK just to clear this up!
sorry guys it's the nurse in me and I have only been following
this a few weeks. About the pregnancy.
Memorial Day Monday May 29, 2006? wreck occurs ~ subsequent miscarriage
I have never had a miscarriage and don't want to start a debate, but from what I understand it takes a few weeks to recover...

Date of Fertilization (2w1d):06/30/06
Fetal heart beat should be seen (7w0d):08/03/06
Anatomy Scan (19-20 weeks):10/26/06 - 11/02/06
Fetus starts moving (18-20 weeks):10/19/06 - 11/03/06

If so what was all that about JY telling her to get over it? She was pregnant 30 days later!
 
First point: The thing in his hand is too wide to be a folded newspaper (obviously, it wasn't an unfolded newspaper).

Second point: the bend tells me that it's more likely the atlas than the newspaper. You see, he's holding it by one end only. A newspaper is light and would not bend like that. On the other hand, an atlas is heavier and by holding it on one end, it would cause the other end to bend due to the weight.

Thats your opinion....
 
Thats your opinion....

I have been reading your shoe experiment again.

That was awesome for you guys to do that.

See, there is no way Jason could have had those Size 10 shoes on,and kept his balance.

Thank you, thank you, thank you !!!!
 
Ok so we went to the DG.... Hubby tried on a 10 and just as we thought... Did not work.. Oh he could slip his foot in but the heel was hanging over a bit.... The shoe was tight also.... He could walk a min or 2 in the shoe but he said he didn't believe he could beat someone to death wearing a shoe like that.... Your foot would slip at some point during the beating and be in the blood... Oh yea the laces were undone a bit also... Im sure someone will find fault in what we did but oh well it is what it is... It proved my point!!!

I wanted to take pics and he said no way.... He did not even want to try the shoes on... He said he has no dog in the fight, but from what little bit he has read or heard he also thinks hes NG...


Now its been fun posting with ya'll for the past wk or so, but I need to really start getting back to work here... I got 3 fundraisers I need to get graphics done for... I'll still be around Cammy & fromageball, but just not as much...

Did he try on Franklins?

FWIW... the hubby & I just had a conversation about the case and about the shoe sizes. He was a huge athlete involved in soccer, football & basketball in his younger days; and now he's just a coach. He says the Franklins run BIG! And also said he thought they were out of the shoe business now, but isn't 100% sure just knows that they are no longer offered to his athletes when buying equipment & uniforms and recalled being told that by a rep sometime back.

I still stand by my earlier statement... the same exact foot can fit into numerous shoe sizes. MOO
 
OK just to clear this up!
sorry guys it's the nurse in me and I have only been following
this a few weeks. About the pregnancy.
Memorial Day Monday May 29, 2006? wreck occurs ~ subsequent miscarriage
I have never had a miscarriage and don't want to start a debate, but from what I understand it takes a few weeks to recover...

Date of Fertilization (2w1d):06/30/06
Fetal heart beat should be seen (7w0d):08/03/06
Anatomy Scan (19-20 weeks):10/26/06 - 11/02/06
Fetus starts moving (18-20 weeks):10/19/06 - 11/03/06

If so what was all that about JY telling her to get over it? She was pregnant 30 days later!

She also had to endure a therapeutic abortion a week or so after finding out the pregnancy was no longer viable, which she found out a week after the accident. I've had miscarriages and it does take a long time to recover from them, and you are generally advised to let your body heal for 3 months or longer before TTC again. I believe she probably ovulated a couple of weeks after her procedure without having a normal period first. It happens, but it is rare.
 
Long before joining Websleuths I lurked and enjoyed the thoughtful discussion.
There was agreement, disagreement, point and counter-point.

The suppositions extended to give JY the benefit of the doubt with the totality of the CE feels disingenuous at best.

I don't think so, but I will be glad to run the list of reasonable doubt again.

1) Timeline

2)Clean NTO

3)No blood in SUV, nothing in his SUV to connect him to the crime scene

4)No hairs, fibers, traces found at hotel from Birchleaf

5)No fibers, traces from the hotel found at Birchleaf

6)Daughter not afraid when she saw him again

7)No proof or evidence daughter was drugged

8) LE issuing a search warrant for Michelle's car, thinking CY was removed from the home

9) 2 eye witnesses seeing cars at Birchleaf at a time Jason could not be there

10)Same camera tampered with at same hotel, same stairwell, previously

11)Twig was able to hold door open

12)Bush was in reach of door

13)Ordered cigars from Tampa at a previous date

14)Would have had to drive 510 miles

15) Seen on Video at gas station before leaving Raleigh

16)Seen on Video at CB

17)Seen on Video at hotel

18) NO VIDEO in King, NC, no customer, news delivery man later confirmed he never saw any such incident

19) Palmprint on sheetrock EXCLUDED Jason Young

20) LE checked airports for flight plans

21)Unidentified print on medicine cap/dropper

22) DNA on rock not a match

23)Shoes could not be a match, unless expert had the exact shoes

24)State trooper called, confirmed it was an accident

25)Emails revealed there was an accident that Jason saw, to explain computer searches

26) SIZE 10 SHOES IN BLOOD
 
Did he try on Franklins?

FWIW... the hubby & I just had a conversation about the case and about the shoe sizes. He was a huge athlete involved in soccer, football & basketball in his younger days; and now he's just a coach. He says the Franklins run BIG! And also said he thought they were out of the shoe business now, but isn't 100% sure just knows that they are no longer offered to his athletes when buying equipment & uniforms and recalled being told that by a rep sometime back.

I still stand by my earlier statement... the same exact foot can fit into numerous shoe sizes. MOO

No not Franklins.. Would have been better if they were.. They hardly had any shoes.... But the fact remains he could NOT fit in foot into a size 10 comfortably.....

And I stand by what I have always said NOT every person is the same... So what Mr. Gracielee can do or ur hubbys players doesn't mean it will work for Jason.. Everyone is different..... For example I wear a size 8.... When my grandmother passed I was given some of her things.. Some were shoes.. She wore a 6... My foot would not fit in the shoe unless my heel was hanging off...
I say JY big boat oar foot would NOT have fit into the size 10.... His foot looks just like hubbys...


MOO MOO MOO
 
My point is that no one can know why JY did what he did at the crime scene in the way he did it, in the order he did it, what thoughts were running through his head at the time, etc. To attempt to assign specific logic to it ("well, if he had done THIS first then maybe I'd see he was responsible, but since he didn't do it in this specific way and the way it was done doesn't make sense to me, and I can't see him doing it any other way") sets up an impossible standard.

JY did not do things the way others might if they were committing a murder, and the scene is what it is. His logic is not your logic or my logic. Asking why didn't JY do something or why did JY do something isn't going to elicit more than a guess or a shrug.

The only way to get an answer to these hypothetical questions and what-if scenarios and then why didn't/did JY do this? Ask JY!
 
Did he try on Franklins?

FWIW... the hubby & I just had a conversation about the case and about the shoe sizes. He was a huge athlete involved in soccer, football & basketball in his younger days; and now he's just a coach. He says the Franklins run BIG! And also said he thought they were out of the shoe business now, but isn't 100% sure just knows that they are no longer offered to his athletes when buying equipment & uniforms and recalled being told that by a rep sometime back.

I still stand by my earlier statement... the same exact foot can fit into numerous shoe sizes. MOO

And I stand by my experiment with mr gracielee. He wore my size 8 Ryka's, walked around our kitchen for a couple minutes without losing his balance. If anybody locally wants to bring their camera over here and video him, I can probably get him to demonstrate, but I refuse to allow him to beat me over the head as he's doing it. Balance was NOT an issue at all. We have two big dogs chasing after him, thinking it was some sort of game. Still he did not lose his balance. But he's normally a pretty active guy. He does a lot of gardening, yard work, and does not look his age at all. He's kept active all his life, and luckily doesn't have any problems with either arthritis, balance issues, or any sort of back problems.
 
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