Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[inspctrgadget]

I circled the western entrance to the utility road in the attached image.

The fact that the killer had killed and dismembered in Manorville (presumably because he left the larger torso there), but buried the head hands and 1 leg in this location off this utility road tells us that he did his dirty work out east, but knew the area off of ocean parkway better, and felt more comfortable taking the time to burying something here. Also because he knows that the beach is park territory and will never be developed hence found. I conclude that he had reasons to be out east, work etc, may have even had an apartment or office out there where he could do his dirty work, dump the larger torso in the woods, then drive home to jones island where he knows he has the time and ease to dig and bury the identifiable parts.

So now the question is, did he actually know this woman and could she be connected to him so he had to dismember to prevent identification? Or is she a random prostitute whose identity couldn't be connected to him and he dismembers for psychological reasons and tells himself he is doing it to be smart by making identification more difficult?

Hey TruthSpider,

As far as the remains recovered from the JFK bird sanctuary, I believe they only recovered a skull, wrapped in a plastic bag 40 feet from Ocean Parkway. You mentioned head, hands and a leg were recovered near the utility road - they were not. I assume you were referring to Jane Doe 2000 (aka Jane Doe #6), who was recovered east of Cedar Beach, nowhere near the utility road.

The skull recovered near east of Zach's Bay is related to the non-Caucasian baby found 250 feet from Jane Doe #6.

So we've got:
Jane Doe #6 - Manorville, dismembered, torso found November 2000 in Manorville, other remains found east of Cedar Beach.
Jane Doe #7 - Non-Caucasian toddler found 250 feet or 0.04 miles from Jane Doe #6.
Jane Doe #9 - Mother of Jane Doe #7 tied by DNA, skull found 40 ft from Ocean Parkway

If I got any of the numbers wrong, please let me know.

But now you've got me thinking that Jane Doe 2000 is actually related somehow to the Jane Doe #9. I mean, what are the chances that two different killers could deposit the remains of Jane Doe 2000 and the baby so close together at Cedar Beach? Probably pretty slim. So what if Jane Doe 2000 was friends with Jane Doe #9? Lots of prostitutes work together. The serial killer could have gone to the city and picked up Jane Doe 2000, with a story like "Come out to Long Island and party with me tonight." Being cautious, she brought a friend (non-Caucasian, which doesn't seem to be the SK's preferred type). But the friend had a child, and the serial killer said it was OK to bring the child. Jane Doe #6 and #9 were both killed at the same time, dismembered at the same time and deposited at the same time. It may even be possible that the remains found in Manorville last week are the rest of the remains of Jane Doe #9.

But the baby was found 250 feet from Jane Doe 2000. That's like 2.5 basketball court lengths. If the SK indeed killed these 3 victims at the same time, why did he travel down the parkway a bit after getting rid of the toddler before getting rid of Jane Doe #6? Why did he go to the other end of the parkway to getting rid of the mother? Was it just better spacing? Or was there a ritualistic reason.

Truth, I'm not so sure about your theory about coming back to the barrier beach to re-bury the bodies. They were found in the thicket. But I do think that you're right about the SK having a strong connection to out east. I would think that he lives closer to Manorville given that that's likely where the dismemberment took place. I mean, you don't want to drive halfway across Long Island covered in blood. You need to shower first.

Also, I thought too that there might be something ritual about Zach's Bay/the JFK wildlife sanctuary as it related to waterfowl hunting. Take a look at this picture from the SSWA. That's the Jones Beach amphitheater in the background, so Jane Doe #7 was found immediately to the left of that long building in the background (not the tower, obviously). So it would be that area of land covered by the top of the hunting hat.

http://www.sswa.org/GallerySlideshow.aspx?ID=8&ImgID=63

Also note that:
http://www.allcarrentacar.com/john-kennedy-wildlife-sanctuary.php
"Lying along the southern boundary of the Town of Oyster Bay, just west of the Tobay Beach bayside, this 500 acre sanctuary is considered to be one of the most important refuges for waterfowl in the northeast. It serves as a major wintering area for more than two dozen species of waterfowl, is a commonly used habitat for several species of ducks and wading birds, and is a stopover for numerous migrating waterfowl, as well as hawks and falcons. "

 

[truthspider]

Hey TruthSpider,

As far as the remains recovered from the JFK bird sanctuary, I believe they only recovered a skull, wrapped in a plastic bag 40 feet from Ocean Parkway. You mentioned head, hands and a leg were recovered near the utility road - they were not. I assume you were referring to Jane Doe 2000 (aka Jane Doe #6), who was recovered east of Cedar Beach, nowhere near the utility road.

The skull recovered near east of Zach's Bay is related to the non-Caucasian baby found 250 feet from Jane Doe #6.

In the sanctuary they found 2 remains, the skull of JD 9098 (jane "leg operation" doe) and Jane Doe #10 (DNA tied to Baby Doe) see pic. The property where JD #10 was found may technically not be within the sanctuary, but I don't know exactly where that particular park territory begins and ends as there is no sign. I am assuming the SK was familiar with the sanctuary and the road that traverses through it.

I guess you don't want the sk to have used the service road because you are pushing for a non-local perp who wouldn't be familiar with the service road, a perp who is not from the island but merely "throws" identifiyng remains into the bushes off the parkway. That is not that way it looks to me at all, I see multiple characteristics of the SK that describe him as local to the island.

Special thanks to you inspector for pointing out that a very similar service road was likely used for some of the Manorville dumps. I had already picked up on the use of the service road use in AC so now with the new barefoot Manorville victim, I have lost doubts that it is a different perp.

 

[truthspider]

slightly closer view of locations of remains and service road.

 

[PickleChris]

I know I'm a broken record.. That service road has been traveled by 4x4'ers in the area with the beach pass (legal or not). There are only 4 places I hear people talking about when it comes to 4 wheeling.
1. - Beach. Off of Ocean Parkway and at the end of the Robert Moses
2. - Manorville. Lots of spots in the area we have been discussing
3. - Exit 56 off the LIE. Open construction lot by south service road.
4. - Deer Park by the industrial area/ Pilgrim State. This by far is the eeriest place of the list. These woods have many trails and are only visited by 4x4 trucks, ATV's, Dirtbikes, and people junking their cars. The old Edgewood Hospital I believe it is. (may be Brentwood..Very close to the border.)

Sorry, I just feel the need to keep reminding people of these places.

 

[RhdHighness]

There are many many places to off road on eastern long island. Manorville is a very small town and close knit community. I'm very familar with north & south street area as a I have a couple very old family cemeteies there, one next to grumans which used to be a prisoner of war camp and in the 90's there were moslty empty houses on north street. byw burlap is like writing paper out here.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I found this article interesting and has got me thinking I should do more research on this topic (no jokes about the editor's name. This is a respectable forum):


wikiHow
How to Walk in a Swamp
Edited by Buckskin Boner and 16 others
http://www.wikihow.com/Walk-in-a-Swamp

"Saltwater marsh: This forms as a result of tidal activity and is highly saline. These are located by the sea, in river deltas and intertidal zones. They are often covered with grass-like plants rather than bushes or trees. The main issue with crossing this kind of marsh is getting through the grass-like covering. Some marshes can be walked on top if they are thick enough. It is like walking on a trampoline because water is below the vegatative(sic) cover. Others you have to pull apart or crawl on your belly. Be careful when crossing open water, you might get caught by an incoming tide and being prepared to swim back if that happens, taking care to avoid riptides, strong currents, or undertows."

"Be aware that you can drown in a swamp, marsh, or bog as easily as in any other body of water, even if it's shallow. This is because of the soft nature of the bio-silt beneath these water formations, which can add many more feet to the depth if you sink into it.[3]"

 

[the quiet girl]

Yes I saw that and in a thread there a more recent one midway through you can see a member post with a mistake thinking he was under his alias posting to support his orig posts as his well known name.
comedy gold
However it is quiet insightful to see the evidence that ppl have alias, I just hope they get caught doing the same on possibly this forum. It is easy to do, unfortunately. That does not mean our WS staff cant and dont catch them, its just way easy to do.

eta:
I have more too much respect for this place the posters to see it get thrown by these people.

 

[nicola0001]

Yes I saw that and in a thread there a more recent one midway through you can see a member post with a mistake thinking he was under his alias posting to support his orig posts as his well known name.
comedy gold
However it is quiet insightful to see the evidence that ppl have alias, I just hope they get caught doing the same on possibly this forum. It is easy to do, unfortunately. That does not mean our WS staff cant and dont catch them, its just way easy to do.

eta:
I have more too much respect for this place the posters to see it get thrown by these people.

Really!?! thats so funny & stupid lol, If peolple have the time to have various alias they must have way too much time on their hands. Ive only been on there a couple of times & I really dont like the vibe u get on there, it doesnt seem to be a productive site.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Yes I saw that and in a thread there a more recent one midway through you can see a member post with a mistake thinking he was under his alias posting to support his orig posts as his well known name.
comedy gold
However it is quiet insightful to see the evidence that ppl have alias, I just hope they get caught doing the same on possibly this forum. It is easy to do, unfortunately. That does not mean our WS staff cant and dont catch them, its just way easy to do.

eta:
I have more too much respect for this place the posters to see it get thrown by these people.

I saw something similar to what you describe.

I thought it was High-Larious!

 

[LINative13]

This forensic process is taking a long time...no?

 

[alaskanblue]

Yes, we're now in the 3rd month--I just hope that means they're doing a really thorough job. It'd be nice for her family to be able to lay her to rest soon.

 

[truthspider]

Yes I saw that and in a thread there a more recent one midway through you can see a member post with a mistake thinking he was under his alias posting to support his orig posts as his well known name.
comedy gold
However it is quiet insightful to see the evidence that ppl have alias, I just hope they get caught doing the same on possibly this forum. It is easy to do, unfortunately. That does not mean our WS staff cant and dont catch them, its just way easy to do.

eta:
I have more too much respect for this place the posters to see it get thrown by these people.

Actually quiet girl, if you were slightly more astute you would notice that flukeyou has the habit of reposting other peoples posts that are along the same lines as his thinking aka "retweeting" others posts. (he's young)

so when I (brendan) made a post on there that addresses him at the top of the post "@fluke" and he retweeted my post (presumably because he likes it), you end up with the post that you can't decipher the difference between what is the quoted part of the post and what is new. Like here on web sleuths it is easy to visually decipher your portion (up top) of this post from my response (here). The LISK site doesn't have that feature hence the confusion.

hope that clears things up for you.

 

[the quiet girl]

Actually quiet girl, if you were slightly more astute you would notice that flukeyou has the habit of reposting other peoples posts that are along the same lines as his thinking aka "retweeting" others posts. (he's young)

so when I (brendan) made a post on there that addresses him at the top of the post "@fluke" and he retweeted my post (presumably because he likes it), you end up with the post that you can't decipher the difference between what is the quoted part of the post and what is new. Like here on web sleuths it is easy to visually decipher your portion (up top) of this post from my response (here). The LISK site doesn't have that feature hence the confusion.

hope that clears things up for you.

Actually, if you were not as condescending and concerned about your biggest fan being busted you would realize that is not at all what happened. I know exactly the scenario you are proposing and no it was not that at all.
but carry on

 

[nugzter]

The question that is eating me up about SG is, Why didn't the SK dump SG in the same cluster as the rest? So follow me here.
1. He kills MBB in July 07, dumps body beside the road. (1st GB4 location)
2. He kills MB in July 09, dumps body beside the road. (2nd GB4 location)
3. He kills SG in May 10, dumps body beside the road. (not part of GB4)
4. He kills MW in June 10, dumps body beside the road. (3rd GB4 location)
5. He kills ALC in Sept. 10, dumps body beside the road. (4th GB4 location)
Why is SG not put in the same place as the rest of the GB4? It does not add up. Thus my conclusion , the killer of the GB4 is NOT the killer of SG. (If she was even murdered at all, if the ME report comes out at all, lool)

 

[SherlockHomes]

The SK could not put Shannan with the G4 or her murder would lead directly back to him and connect him to all the others.

 

[nugzter]

The SK could not put Shannan with the G4 or her murder would lead directly back to him and connect him to all the others.

If LE didn't know there were others, how could they make that connection?

 

[LINative13]

Do you guys know if MP and SG's boyfriend are close? As in friendship wise?

 

[SherlockHomes]

If LE didn't know there were others, how could they make that connection?

Well who was Blue looking for on the first cadaver search of OP? Was it Melissa Barthelemy or Amber Costello? If it was Melissa, it would follow logic that the "old man" that Melissa knew lives in Oak Beach and the police where on to him then.

Is there anyone who has lived in Oak Beach since before 1987?

 

[LINative13]

Blue was looking for Melissa.

 

[Seaslug44]

Blue was looking for Melissa.

Blue WAS NOT looking for Melissa. We proved a while back that it was a typo/misquote in one publication. With so many victims plus SG missing, they have made this sort of error on more than one occassion. Blue was searching for Shannon. That is the name that was supposed to have been spoken. they stated Melissa's name in error because Melissa was found as a result of the search.

Prior to the discovery of the GB4, the police didn't have a clue whether they were even on Long Island (never mind dead).