NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[Unscripted]

...which then tells me that these photos were taken just in the days after maura went missing.The big red flag to me that stands out in the photo that shows maura's sister crouched down next to maura's belongings that were found in her car was that there were some running clothes found and that's it (as far as clothing)If maura was leaving to meet someone (hours away) or if Maura was simply getting away for a week or if maura was running away to start a new life, THEN, why is maura only bringing enough clothes to go for a hike in???????

Maura was apparently fastidious about her dental care YET all her toiletries, running gear, expensive jewelry and AAA auto club car were all left in the car suggesting that she wasn't planning to be away from the vehicle for long, certainly not overnight.

If she refused help from the school bus driver, she might have accepted help from someone who appeared to be trustworthy and non-threatening. Perhaps someone posing as a tow operator, military personnel or an individual with some sort of credentials? Possibly that person offered to drive her back into town (Woodsville) and someone saw her get into a private vehicle. Or she was abducted by one or more individuals at her crash site. On a quiet Monday night a pretty coed with MA plates may have appeared as easy prey to a predator(s). She could have easily been stalked from I-91.

On the night of her disappearance (February 9, 2004) the road/area east of Bradley Hill Road was not searched which might indicate that LE thought or even KNEW that Maura might be travelling back into Woodsville or up Route 302 towards Lisbon or Littleton. They clearly did not believe at that time that she might have been continuing southeast along Route 112 toward North Woodstock and Lincoln.

With the credible witness sighting of the lurking Red Truck that evening, I personally can only surmise that Maura was cajoled by someone into getting into their vehicle and foul play was involved.

 

[Fishee]

Is is generally accepted that she was most likely intoxicated at the time of the accident?

 

[pugsley]

I believe the call you are referring to was at 12:40 a.m. (snipped)

In any case, there is no way that this 12:40 a.m. phone call has anything to do with maura's sisters and was probably ruled out as having anything to do with anything.

This is your opinion, this is not fact.

There was a call, if UMASS looked into it and released a statement about it. And I agree that much of what was reported was botched. I also agree Maura's sisters had no connection to the call. We cannot say it was not related to her meltdown, if we don't know who called or what it was about.

That's all I'll say about it.

 

[Unscripted]

There was a call, if UMASS looked into it and released a statement about it. And I agree that much of what was reported was botched. I also agree Maura's sisters had no connection to the call. We cannot say it was not related to her meltdown, if we don't know who called or what it was about. That's all I'll say about it.

UMass Police have stated that they know where that call originated but have not provided any extra details.

Do you think someone borrowed Maura's car and had an accident with it or even, perhaps struck Petrit Vasi?

 

[scoops]

This is your opinion, this is not fact.

There was a call, if UMASS looked into it and released a statement about it. And I agree that much of what was reported was botched. I also agree Maura's sisters had no connection to the call. We cannot say it was not related to her meltdown, if we don't know who called or what it was about.

That's all I'll say about it.

No you are wrong.

I provided a timeline of FACTUAL information and did not bring up that 12:40 a.m. phone call at all because it has never been released publically and for all we know may have never existed in the first place.

You were the one to criticize me for saying what is fact and what isn't by bringing up a phone call that has never been proven to be true or not.

 

[pugsley]

No you are wrong.

I provided a timeline of FACTUAL information and did not bring up that 12:40 a.m. phone call at all because it has never been released publically and for all we know may have never existed in the first place.

You were the one to criticize me for saying what is fact and what isn't by bringing up a phone call that has never been proven to be true or not.

2-27-04 Family, Friends of Maura Murray Upset With Investigation By GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer Friday February 27, 2004 CALEDONIAN-RECORD >>There also is the mysterious phone call Murray received while working as a security person at a residence hall at the UMass Amherst campus Feb. 5. The call reportedly reduced Murray to tears and her supervisor had to take her home because she was so distraught. UMass Detective Davies said his department has been able to track the phone call. "We know the location," Davies said. "We have not been able to identify to whom she was speaking. Her friends have no idea who called her."

This phone number is an unlisted number, known only to Police & Security.

I have nothing more to say to you. Only hope readers will see your dismissal of it is unwarranted.

 

[pugsley]

UMass Police have stated that they know where that call originated but have not provided any extra details.

Do you think someone borrowed Maura's car and had an accident with it or even, perhaps struck Petrit Vasi?

No, I think they would have figured it out by now. That is an old rumour, discussed for years with no resolve. I would think any experienced accident recontructionist or detective would be able to tell the difference between a body & an object hitting a car. IMHO

 

[scoops]

2-27-04 Family, Friends of Maura Murray Upset With Investigation By GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer Friday February 27, 2004 CALEDONIAN-RECORD >>There also is the mysterious phone call Murray received while working as a security person at a residence hall at the UMass Amherst campus Feb. 5. The call reportedly reduced Murray to tears and her supervisor had to take her home because she was so distraught. UMass Detective Davies said his department has been able to track the phone call. "We know the location," Davies said. "We have not been able to identify to whom she was speaking. Her friends have no idea who called her."

This phone number is an unlisted number, known only to Police & Security.

I have nothing more to say to you. Only hope readers will see your dismissal of it is unwarranted.

In a developing story often facts get twisted and confused. None of the information you have provided points to a 12:40 a.m. phone call at all, but I have provided several links below that not only discredit a second phone call, but also explain the infamous "Dorm call" away as actually happening on the following Monday, the day maura went missing. This call has since been proven and has been verified and released to the public.


here is your article link, but notice in the very next article three days later, the same police department notes that the upsetting phone call came from maura's sisters, which even you acknowledge is factually impossible if we are to believe in this 12:40 a.m. call.

Feb 27, 2004 ---- Caledonian Record

There also is the mysterious phone call Murray received while working as a security person at a residence hall at the UMass Amherst campus Feb. 5.

The call reportedly reduced Murray to tears and her supervisor had to take her home because she was so distraught.

UMass Detective Davies said his department has been able to track the phone call.

“We know the location,”; Davies said. “We have not been able to identify to whom she was speaking. Her friends have no idea who called her.&quot.”


March 2, 2004 --- Boston Globe
Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual telephone call that Murray received a few nights before she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The conversation upset her so much that she had to be escorted from her burrito to her dorm room.

The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of what was so upsetting.





here is the mysterious second call, yet notice that this call took place on the following monday and not the thursday night maura was working her security shift.

Jan 26, 2005 ---- Daily Collegian

While the Murray family has been disputing facts about the police investigation, yet another troubling piece of information came to light in October 2004 when Sharon Rausch was reviewing Maura's cell phone records. The cell phone was given to Maura by her boyfriend, which was purchased in his mother's name. Rausch came across the last two numbers Maura called three hours before she disappeared.

The first number was to a UMass Amherst dormitory. The number appeared to be a dead end for investigators because the person who lived there likely moved on.

(This phone call was later proven to be maura calling a fellow nursing student to return borrowed scrubs.) I just posted about this call earlier one page back on this forum).


One more example and this comes from a credible article.

Maura is Missing 5-part series: Part 1 ---June 20, 2007

During a slow point in her shift, around 10:20 p.m., Maura chatted on the phone with her older sister, Kathleen. The two were discussing men troubles, specifically Kathleen's tiff with her then fiancé, now husband, Tim Carpenter. The two sisters talked nearly every day and this conversation was not unlike any other, Kathleen would later say. Maura was especially close to Kathleen and her other older sister, Julie. She also had two brothers, Freddy and Kurt.
Maura did not burst into tears right after hanging up the phone, contrary to some published reports. But she did start crying about three hours later for reasons that remain unclear. Maura was comforted by her work supervisor, Karen Mayotte, who walked her back to her single room in the Kennedy dormitory around 1:20 a.m. Maura never told Mayotte why she was upset. Supervisors are on a 30-minute rotation so Mayotte would not have been present for Maura's entire shift.

 

[Unscripted]

No, I think they would have figured it out by now. That is an old rumour, discussed for years with no resolve. I would think any experienced accident recontructionist or detective would be able to tell the difference between a body & an object hitting a car. IMHO

What do you believe caused the front end damage to the Saturn? Was it the snowbank at Weathered Barn Corner or another solid object?

 

[scoops]

Kudos to James for his latest release on his blog which includes a witness statement from Fred Murray.

Not kudos to james for making the leap that somehow fred is lying about his reason to be at UMASS that weekend.

His statement (Fred's) goes right along with the story that he was in town to help maura get a new car (new to her anyway).

He said he had 4,000 on him in cash.

It has been reported that they picked out a 2001 Geo Prizm and were going to complete the purchase the very next week.

He loses me with his assumption that Fred was lying. Nothing I have ever come across would detect that Fred is being deceptive about his reasons for being in amherst that weekend. Fred may be protecting his daughter's image to a certain extent in public, but someone find me one inconsistency concerning fred's reasoning for being in Amherst.

 

[thesaint]

Fred's mental approach to his daughter's disappearance reminds me a bit of the chatter regarding the Spierer's take on Lauren Spierer's disappearance. i.e., the Spierer's refusal to acknowledge that drugs had any role in Lauren's disappearance. And the potentially highly negative impact that could have on actually solving the mystery.

that is, in their heart of hearts, Fred and the Spierers know their daughters are lost to them forever, so they seek to protect their daughter's reputations/memories of their daughters...to the detriment of actually finding out what really happened.

tragedy compounds tragedy--but would any of us behave any differently in the same situation.

Regarding Fred.

I believe he wants people to look past the mysterious events that took place in the days leading up to her disappearance and only focus on the point from when she was last seen by neighbors (around the wreck site) on forward.

The problem with doing that is that it leaves all of those other mysterious events (incident at her security desk, first car wreck, abruptly leaving campus, unloading her checking account, unusal amount of alcohol purchase) unasnwered and unaccounted for and naturally people are going to keep focusing on that stuff until concrete answers are established.

So by telling people not to focus on that stuff it's all white noise, is actually encouraging them to keep looking that direction.

Fred, at some point, needs to come to terms that everything must be put out there. It must be found out why maura left abruptly. He may not know the direct answer to that himself, but he likely knows more.

 

[Karenlisam]

Scoops - I think his statement contains oddities which are covering something up
Saturday night he is dropped back to his hotel and maura and Kate head back to the dorm to party and sleep
After drinking alcohol in the early hours of sunday maura crashes the car , has it towed , goes to the fathers hotel and sleeps there even though she was supposed to be at her dorm

Calls were made and received from /to Freda cell phone at 5am sunday
Fred says he didn't learn of the accident til 10am.

Id say something's off But he could just be covering for her drink driving. It's a weird relationship where your grown up daughter arrives at your hotel room at 3am and you either don't notice or don't ask her why the heck she isn't in her own bed at the dorm

Link to statement and cell records
http://mauramurray.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/police-obtained-fred-murrays-cell-phone.html?m=1

 

[McSpy]

Scoops - I think his statement contains oddities which are covering something up
Saturday night he is dropped back to his hotel and maura and Kate head back to the dorm to party and sleep
After drinking alcohol in the early hours of sunday maura crashes the car , has it towed , goes to the fathers hotel and sleeps there even though she was supposed to be at her dorm

Calls were made and received from /to Freda cell phone at 5am sunday
Fred says he didn't learn of the accident til 10am.

Id say something's off But he could just be covering for her drink driving. It's a weird relationship where your grown up daughter arrives at your hotel room at 3am and you either don't notice or don't ask her why the heck she isn't in her own bed at the dorm

Link to statement and cell records
http://mauramurray.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/police-obtained-fred-murrays-cell-phone.html?m=1

At 3 am, maybe he was too tired to bother asking her questions. Maybe, he just accepted that she was there and told her they would talk in the morning.

 

[McSpy]

UMass Police have stated that they know where that call originated but have not provided any extra details.

Do you think someone borrowed Maura's car and had an accident with it or even, perhaps struck Petrit Vasi?

I have a hard time with this hit and run scenario. If someone borrowed her car, wouldn't they be responsible for the hit and run? They were the driver. Now, if this driver didn't have a license and Maura knew it, then she would be liable. IMO, the credit card thing is what was making Maura upset. I don't think her family knew about it, so she probably had a big weight on her shoulders on the situation. Enough to make one burst out crying from the pressure. Between that and crashing her dad's brand new car, I'm sure she was very upset with herself. I'm only guessing her family didn't know about the credit card thing, but I have a feeling they didn't know. She was a legal adult, so it was up to her to tell them. JMO

 

[scoops]

Scoops - I think his statement contains oddities which are covering something up
Saturday night he is dropped back to his hotel and maura and Kate head back to the dorm to party and sleep
After drinking alcohol in the early hours of sunday maura crashes the car , has it towed , goes to the fathers hotel and sleeps there even though she was supposed to be at her dorm

Calls were made and received from /to Freda cell phone at 5am sunday
Fred says he didn't learn of the accident til 10am.

Id say something's off But he could just be covering for her drink driving. It's a weird relationship where your grown up daughter arrives at your hotel room at 3am and you either don't notice or don't ask her why the heck she isn't in her own bed at the dorm

Link to statement and cell records
http://mauramurray.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/police-obtained-fred-murrays-cell-phone.html?m=1

I fully agree with you.

I found some of the statements to be quite odd by fred, but others not so odd.

I wouldn't have figured that maura waited until she woke up the next day to tell her father about the wreck. (As I understand the story) She was given a ride back to Fred's hotel from her wreck site by the tow truck driver and fred's crashed new car was also dropped off at the hotel. But the wreck was listed on the accident report as taking place at approximately at 3:33 a.m. so she was likely not getting to the hotel anytime before 4 or 4:15 a.m after police got done with her and issued her a citation (operator inattention) and cleared her and the scene.

I have stayed at this very same hotel (now a comfort inn) and at least the room I stayed in, was very very small. I can't see anyone, especially someone that has been drinking, being able to get into the room and not wake up someone already sleeping in the room.

She is the one who used her dad's cell phone at around 4:49 a.m. to call her boyfriend. I imagine her boyfriend was asleep, so she probably got his voicemail at first and then he called her back on her dad's cell phone (all my guess). The rumor is that she had left her cell phone back at the dorm party so that is why she was using her father's cell phone.

As far as maura's friend and them picking her up, keep in my mind they didn't pick her up until 9 p.m. or later that saturday night and then went back to the amherst brew company restaurant/bar where fred and maura already had had supper at. Fred probably wasn't around her that much since they broke away not long after to go to the dorm party. It doesn't surprise me that this friend of maura's didn't hear anything about the two shopping for cars that day.

 

[Unscripted]

I have a hard time with this hit and run scenario. If someone borrowed her car, wouldn't they be responsible for the hit and run? They were the driver. Now, if this driver didn't have a license and Maura knew it, then she would be liable. IMO, the credit card thing is what was making Maura upset. I don't think her family knew about it, so she probably had a big weight on her shoulders on the situation. Enough to make one burst out crying from the pressure. Between that and crashing her dad's brand new car, I'm sure she was very upset with herself. I'm only guessing her family didn't know about the credit card thing, but I have a feeling they didn't know. She was a legal adult, so it was up to her to tell them. JMO

If memory serves, the entire hit-and-run in Amherst theory grew out of the news that some of the New Hampshire volunteer investigators and an accident re-constructionist felt that the damage to the Saturn was inconsistent with hitting a snowbank at Weathered Barn Corner (the accident site). So everyone started coming up with their own creative ideas and there have been many over the past 8 years! I agree 100% -- I don't think Maura or anyone else driving her car hit Petrit Vasi. (It was a Thursday night in a college town with 20,000+ students and it was snowing that night -- could have been anyone.)

The weather was warmish that winter and on February 9 it was above freezing. Maura obviously loved the White Mountains and, to my way of thinking, decided to take a few days up there to clear her head. She was working 2 part-time jobs, studying and doing clinical work, it's been written that Billy was unfaithful and there was the stress of the credit card issue and crashing her father's car. Everyone always wonders why she would drive a run-down car in the winter. I think, if you've got so much angst in your life you might just think -- "hell's bells, what else can go wrong? I've just got to get out of here."

If the car wasn't running well and she stopped for gas in Wells River or Woodsville, she could have easily been followed from there or from a rest stop or I-91. A pretty girl alone with MA plates and a UMass sticker, maybe consulting a map and perhaps visibly upset, possibly sipping wine... she could have appeared to be an easy mark.

 

[scoops]

Doing some more thinking after going over Fred's statement that was released, I can see why maura would not immediately tell her father about wrecking his brand new car.

She may have been near hysterical (maybe why she got off so easy from the accident by police they may have felt sorry for her) and when she got to his hotel room, her first instinct may have been to console in her boyfriend and let him calm her down before she broke the news of the car to her father.

She would have to be pretty sneaky though to quietly make entrance into his hotel room and grab his phone. She could've then taken the phone into the bathroom and closed the door or out in the hallway to avoid awakening him.

Maybe she was just struggling to come to terms with having to tell her father. That makes sense, but of course that is just my opinion and definitely not fact.

The times match up though.

Her wreck is written as taking place around 3:33 a.m. the hotel from her wreck site is about seven to eight miles away.

by the time the police were done with her and the tow truck driver took her on into Hadley, and dropped her and her father's car off and then she made entrance into his hotel room, would be close to the 4:49 time that it is believed that Maura contacted her boyfriend.

 

[scoops]

Quality inn maura | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


here is a picture of the hotel fred was staying at while visiting Maura. (back in 2004 it was a Quality Inn).

Maura's dorm to this hotel is a real easy drive, pretty straight-forward, of course being that it was february, road slickness may have played a part in her wreck.

one interesting discrepancy or conflict with fred's statement that was released is that he said maura told him "she came around a corner and hit some sand and then skid."

The wreck happened at a T-Intersection, meaning maura woudl've came to a stop sign and rolled or skidded past it and into the guard rail.

her telling her father that she turned a corner and skidded might mean she never stopped for the T-Intersection and proceeded to try and negoiate a left hand turn at a 90-degree turn.

the ground around the guard rail is somewhat sandy and dusty from what i recall when i was there this past july.

 

[scoops]

All sizes | Maura's first wreck site | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


here is a picture of maura's first wreck site.

 

[McSpy]

Doing some more thinking after going over Fred's statement that was released, I can see why maura would not immediately tell her father about wrecking his brand new car.

She may have been near hysterical (maybe why she got off so easy from the accident by police they may have felt sorry for her) and when she got to his hotel room, her first instinct may have been to console in her boyfriend and let him calm her down before she broke the news of the car to her father.

She would have to be pretty sneaky though to quietly make entrance into his hotel room and grab his phone. She could've then taken the phone into the bathroom and closed the door or out in the hallway to avoid awakening him.

Maybe she was just struggling to come to terms with having to tell her father. That makes sense, but of course that is just my opinion and definitely not fact.

The times match up though.

Her wreck is written as taking place around 3:33 a.m. the hotel from her wreck site is about seven to eight miles away.

by the time the police were done with her and the tow truck driver took her on into Hadley, and dropped her and her father's car off and then she made entrance into his hotel room, would be close to the 4:49 time that it is believed that Maura contacted her boyfriend.

This scenario makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure she was having a hard time coming up with the courage to tell her dad that she wrecked his brand new car. It was a situation where one would want to avoid telling one's dad as long as possible. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant for her. Calling her boyfriend or even a sister in a panic makes sense too. JMO