FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[LolaMoon08]

Trayvon had walked toward him in the beginning, let's not forget that.

Well, if the reports are correct, Trayvon didn't have a choice, but to walk in his direction to get home?

 

[m00c0w]

He scooted out from under a person who is 6'0-6'3 and 160 pounds of possibly dead weight? IMO it would make more sense to roll the person off, instead of scooting. Secondly, if Trayvon was on top, at what point did Zimmerman retrieve his firearm from the holster in his waistband?

Just speculation -

Given Trayvon's height, it would make sense that he wasn't executing a proper mount and there was a gap between his crotch area and Zimmerman's waist.

(This is not meant to construe that Trayvon did anything wrong, just that tall people generally have long legs)

JMO

 

[vlpate]

Can we please bold the entire sentence from Belinda's post before accusing her of doing something she didn't?

You are right, I stopped reading at "found laying, shot in the back". My apologies.

 

[jjenny]

You may have wanted to bold the whole quote? No where did Belinda say that an article said Trayvon was shot in the back. She said that the way Trayvon was laying on the ground, a shot in the back is the only way she can imagine it happening.

But we don't have any info to support that idea. And I really doubt that's what actually happened, because it's pretty difficult to claim self-defense if the person is shot in the back.

 

[HiHater]

Trayvon had walked toward him in the beginning, let's not forget that.

You don't know if Trayvon was purposely walking toward him, or if on his path home he was walking in Zimmerman's direction, do you? At any rate, after he walked toward him, he took off running. What does that tell you?

 

[m00c0w]

First of all, :seeya: WELCOME TO THE FORUM!:seeya:

Secondly, thank you for the information.

Thirdly, your last few lines makes me wonder, if GZ was indeed the one on the bottom of the altercation (which would explain the head injury and wet, grassy back), he could have shot TM and scooted out from under him, leaving TM face down.

I honestly doubt that's what happened. Given that it doesn't seem GZ was in the best shape, it would make more sense that Martin rolled off of him and GZ then got up.

JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Trayvon had walked toward him in the beginning, let's not forget that.

No reason not to believe Trayvon walked towards Zimmerman because Zimmerman was on his path to home.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Post #122

Belinda: "But, every time I read about how Trayvon was found laying, shot in the back"

BEM: No, you did not make it clear.

I would just like to add Belinda's full sentence to this post so there is no confusion.

"But, every time I read about how Trayvon was found laying, shot in the back is the only thing that comes to mind."

 

[HiHater]

But we don't have any info to support that idea. And I really doubt that's what actually happened, because it's pretty difficult to claim self-defense if the person is shot in the back.

It should also be pretty difficult to claim self-defense if you chase and follow a person, but in this case it was not.

 

[Inabsentia]

He scooted out from under a person who is 6'0-6'3 and 160 pounds of possibly dead weight? IMO it would make more sense to roll the person off, instead of scooting. Secondly, if Trayvon was on top, at what point did Zimmerman retrieve his firearm from the holster in his waistband?

If you are scooting out from under a dead body you have just shot in the chest, where is the blood on the front of your shirt? The officer noted dampness and grass on the back of his shirt, but not blood on the front? Also, how do you scoot ourself out from under a body and leave both of the bodies hands underneath? I practiced using my dh as the body on top and couldn't get this to work at all. Finally, if Zimmerman's wet, dirty shirt was onsidered evidence of the truth of his claim, why wasn't it kept as, you know, evidence? Jmo

 

[jjenny]

It should also be pretty difficult to claim self-defense if you chase and follow a person, but in this case it was not.

It has been explained by a verified lawyer (no less) how Zimmerman can still claim self-defense even if he initially followed Trayvon.

 

[jjenny]

If you are scooting out from under a dead body you have just shot in the chest, where is the blood on the front of your shirt? The officer noted dampness and grass on the back of his shirt, but not blood on the front? Also, how do you scoot ourself out from under a body and leave both of the bodies hands underneath? I practiced using my dh as the body on top and couldn't get this to work at all. Finally, if Zimmerman's wet, dirty shirt was onsidered evidence of the truth of his claim, why wasn't it kept as, you know, evidence? Jmo

He had a read sweater on. Might be difficult to see blood on red.

 

[vlpate]

Well, if the reports are correct, Trayvon didn't have a choice, but to walk in his direction to get home?

I've not seen anything to support that, Trayvon had been walking around, acting, in Zimmerman's opinion, suspicious, just looking at the houses - which are past the club house where Zimmerman was.

 

[Boytwnmom]

and everything else is just spinning the tale to justify it. There's no Pretend bomber or pretend rape here-there's a real actual dead boy killed by GZ. Not the same at all. For me, when you shoot and kill a child walking home with candy the burden is on you all the way.

Does this imply that you're comfortable with a clearly biased trial by media? I'm not sure that most people that are seen as defending Zimmerman are actually defending Zimmerman. They're defending the idea of impartiality until conviction by a jury of his peers. The public at large does not have nearly all of the information that is available. To speculate is one thing, but to assume guilt and work from that angle is an entirely different notion.

You'd think we'd have learned after Richard Jewell and the Duke Lacrosse team that this is a bad thing.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I honestly doubt that's what happened. Given that it doesn't seem GZ was in the best shape, it would make more sense that Martin rolled off of him and GZ then got up.

JMO

So Martin rolled off of him, then rolled again with his hands underneath him and Zimmerman jumped up and straddled the body on his knees and put his hands on his back? Wonder why no blood on Zimmerman's hands if it was a killing shot? Pretty big slug and the exit wound would be big if he was shot in the chest.

 

[HiHater]

He had a read sweater on. Might be difficult to see blood on red.

He had on a red jacket, and some people have also reported seeing him in a white shirt.

 

[LolaMoon08]

You are right, I stopped reading at "found laying, shot in the back". My apologies.

No problem. I just didn't want people to misconstrue Belinda's point.

 

[ejw009]

What did you infer that from? The question wasn't if Martin was running, it was if Zimmerman could catch up to a running Martin. If not, that would imply that Martin found Zimmerman.
JMO

It doesn't imply that. One is free to infer it, but it's not the only possible or even the only probable case.

There's too much missing info to determine the vectors of the two bodies at all points in time during the period in question.

 

[m00c0w]

So Martin rolled off of him, then rolled again with his hands underneath him and Zimmerman jumped up and straddled the body on his knees and put his hands on his back? Wonder why no blood on Zimmerman's hands if it was a killing shot? Pretty big slug and the exit wound would be big if he was shot in the chest.

Well, if Martin was shot in the chest it would make sense his hands were underneath him because he was holding where he got shot...

I've already explained the possible lack of blood a few pages back. Relatively, 9mm is not a "pretty big slug", either. And I'm not sure why he'd have blood on his hands.

JMO

 

[flourish]

most police or dispatchers, when they tell a caller "you don't need to do that" assume the person understands and cooperates. GZ says OK but keeps following and doesn't tell the officer that he is still following, thus being deceptive.

Seems some people say that the person on the line needs to give a direct ORDER to the caller, "I hereby ORDER you to stop following him" can't say I've ever heard a dispatcher on these calls give people instruction in that manner when they call 911. If someone calls 911 for help and assistance it's only rational to assume they will do what you tell them, they're calling you, the expert, for help. Why would think they need to ORDER you-seems ridiculous.

Thank you, Boytwnmom, for such an awesome post chock full of common sense.

I've been catching up on the thread(s) from where I left off yesterday, and...well, wow...since I can't post :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: which is what I'm thinking, I'll instead post a thank you and a :goodpost: to you