AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

[~n/t~]

I think the Uncle lives in FL, or at least used to.

I am wondering why the dogs weren't barking that night-I don't think anything happened at 6:30 though when it was light out.

So this video states that 'sources tell us Isabel often slept with her siblings'-what sources?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-tucson-girl-fbi-steps-involvement-isabel-celis-16208983

Nancy Grace has been citing the same "sources" on her show. We don't know who these "sources" are.

 

[Shelby2]

It bothers me that some people think the parents are suspicious because they did not speak out sooner. I don't know what I would do in their situation, I don't know if I would be
ABLE to speak to the media...and I don't think I'd really care what the public thought about me. I'd be terrified for my child. I think that's the only thing that would be in my head. If the police ASKED me to, of course I would...but otherwise I'm not sure it would even occur to me.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Errrr....except for the fact that LE mentioned something about a custody dispute. Weren't they having financial issues, too?

They said it DIDN'T appear to be a custody dispute. For all we know someone had asked about that, and so often these cases are non custodial parents - in a disappearance, they imo were making it clear that unless something changed to show differently there was no reason to think it was.

It was also early in the investigation before they even really knew what they had .. so of course they phrased it that way, in the next hour they could discover that they had been separated for a year and dad had stayed after the ball game and spent the night to help Isa get to her game the next day.

The only reason the phrase was used at all was to say it isn't a typical non custodial parent situation with everything they knew at the time. So far nothing seems to have arisen to think otherwise that I know of.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Good morning everyone!

Prayers that today is the day Isa comes home. She has officially been missing 1 week.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I don't see how this could be a custodial issue anyway. Usually in those situations the non-custodial parent will run away with the child.

Of course LE would look into that, but I don't think it applies at all. In most of these mysterious child-abduction cases that is the first thing ruled out by LE.

Disclaimer: I'm not someone who believes in the magical cabin in the woods where children are taken care of by some kind mysterious friend/relative of one of the parents who is hiding the kid for his/her own good. I've seen that theory so many times here on WS that it's become almost an urban legend. I'm sorry but it's just not realistic, in my opinion, mainly because there's no way for the child to return, and if a parent was that protective they would surely want to see their baby again. :cow:

 

[Shelby2]

I wonder if someone got into the house Friday night while they were at the game and waited? Although I guess that would not explain the screen missing would it....

Regarding possible financial issues...I think that's pretty common lately..

 

[KaylynnCouture]

I don't see how this could be a custodial issue anyway. Usually in those situations the non-custodial parent will run away with the child.

Of course LE would look into that, but I don't think it applies at all. In most of these mysterious child-abduction cases that is the first thing ruled out by LE.

:cow:

I agree. The only way I can understand this being a custody dispute is if Sergio is not Isabel's biological father and whoever her biological father is took her.

However there are several flaws with that. First there is nothing to indicate Sergio is not Isabel's biological father. It has been mentioned here a few times but LE has NEVER said anything about it, nor has the media. Second is it was reported by the mothers co-worker that the parents had been together since high school and third, if LE did believe this was custody related the perp would have already been identified (they would know exactly who her bio dad is) and either be the first to rule him out (therefore not making it a custody dispute) or officially name him as the suspect.

The bottom line is there is nothing at all to indicate this is custody related. I believe LE stated they were unsure, back on day 1 because they were still gathering the facts. Since that time, LE hasn't mentioned anything about it.

 

[~n/t~]

I am 100% behind the parents, there is nothing but nothing to make me think anything is hinky about either one of them. They seem a loving normal couple with kids they adore.

The creeps who do this sort of thing are completely brazen, look at Kienan Heberts kidnapper who not only took him but returned him to his living room right under LE's nose. (thank god he did too). John Couey walked into a house with a dog and two sleeping adults and quietly took Jessica Lunsford while Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas's kidnappers had a house full and in one case left a live witness. These guys fixate on someone, it isn't just to get a kid but to get the kid they want they are willing to do whatever it takes and they believe they are invincible..which in a way they are bc their chutzpah allows them to get in and out with a child. Joeseph Duncan took Shasta into a gas station store with full video/security cameras after her kidnapping and then to a Dennys.

This mystery figure could easily be the kidnapper.. Even with a wall there, you are talking a six year old frightened out of her wits by a man in her bedroom probably with a knife or weapon who imo is telling her if she makes a sound or doesn't cooperate he will kill her parents and brothers. As an adult I might go with him quietly to keep my family safe, as a six year old there is no question about it. Scale a wall or climb out the window, she would do as she is told. He could push her up over the wall in a minute and she would wait til he climbed over himself, terrified to do anything but what she is told.

Plus the coincidence of a lurking man avoiding being seen the night a girl goes missing just a short walk from her house is to high for me.

imo

I'd like to add Victoria Stafford to your list. Caught on camera walking away from school with one of her abductors. The accomplice waiting in the vehicle.

Her mom was considered a suspect but she was/is totally innocent.

 

[~n/t~]

I wonder if someone got into the house Friday night while they were at the game and waited? Although I guess that would not explain the screen missing would it....

Regarding possible financial issues...I think that's pretty common lately..

I think that is a very huge possibility, imo.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I just do not see how someone could kidnap a child from their room, out a window and no one hearing anything, on top of that unless the person knows the family how did they know which room was hers?

It happens. Has happened to too many a dead child and devastated parents.

As far as knowing, I can tell which bedroom is a childs when I walk by a house, anyone fixated on a particular child would just need to walk around the house. Normally at that age there are stickers or pictures or girly paint etc.

 

[Shelby2]

I think that is a very huge possibility, imo.

There were quite a few people who knew they would be at the game that night.

 

[~n/t~]

ISABEL M. CELIS
Case Type: Non Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 27, 2005 Sex: Female
Missing Date: Apr 20, 2012 Race: Hispanic
Age Now: 6 Height: 3'8" (112 cm)
Missing City: TUCSON Weight: 44 lbs (20 kg)
Missing State : AZ Hair Color: Lt. Brown
Missing Country: United States Eye Color: Hazel
Case Number: NCMC1193092


http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Is it unusual for LE to wait this long to do any sort of volunteer/public searches?

 

[BrownRice]

When I logged on to AZStarNet this a.m., it wasn't even on the front page anymore. Just a big article about Ted Nugent. No links either to the side where they list top news. After about a minute it automatically moved from Nugent to Isa on the front picture. Really? She's been missing a week and Ted Nugent takes top stage?

 

[KaylynnCouture]

TUCSON - Tucson Police have started using a new tech tool to help them locate six-year-old Isabel Celis.

TipSoft is a program that allows anyone to send anonymous tips to police through Android or Iphone apps. People can also send a text to "CRIMES" (24367). The text should begin with the keyword "Tucson-PD."

The specific keyword "Tucson-PD 5625" is being used for the Celis investigation.

Snipped: http://www.kvoa.com/mobile/story.cfm?n=66207

 

[SilkySifaka]

Thanks for posting this!

This is what is very important to pass along
From the TPD Press Release 4/27/2012

As far as I am concerned this just cements my view it is a kidnapping by an unknown person. (or maybe family friend, neighbor etc.).

They would not have released this unless they believed it is someone out there, in fact the BAU wouldn't have even flown in imo. They do telephone and fax consults all the time and if they believed it was an inside job the local LE could handle that with the local FBI agents in concert. No need for a whole team to fly in for that. This was due to LE and FBI's belief it was an outside job.

I have read enough of these profiles from reading the books by Robert Ressler and John Douglas/Mark Olshaker to know that this is very much how they profile an unsub not a parent.

THey cant clear the parents until someone else is arrested though because there is always a 1% chance they are wrong.

 

[SilkySifaka]

The video is creepy but I don't think the abductor arrived or left the Celis neighborhood on foot. Carrying a 6 yr. old child around is too risky and awkward. More likely parked nearby and quickly got away with the child. Now, if the unknown person in the video is a vagrant etc., I wonder what he saw that night.

I think he made the child walk on her own. No reason to carry her, fear is a potent force.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Isa'sInstill playing catch up but haven't yet seen mentioned that IMO atleast one positive we possibly have from Nancy tonight was that we certainly saw some corroborating evidence that the "uncle" was in the home.. atleast uncle was there when dad discovered Isa missing...did anyone else catch this?

It came up during segment with security store owner, Rick Moore and he states that the camera picked up the dadand the uncle emerging from the Celis home just minutes after 8am and appearing to quickly look around and then rush back into the home.. Jean Caserez. Stated that this sighting of dad and uncle emerging from the home just a few minutes after 8am is also corroborated by the neighborAlsiha in that she, too saw dad and uncle emerge from thehouse at that time..

It was speculated that this is immediately after dad entered Isa's room and discovered she was gone.. that he and the uncle rushed outside to quickly see if she was anywhere nearby and within moments of this they made the call to 911.. atleast that's how I understood it to be.

Don't know that this is of any relevancy to the case but I do know several have been questioning was the uncle or any other family inthe Celis home that Friday night/Saturday morning.and it certainly does appear the uncle was there butas for how long he'd been there or when he'd arrived is unknown..

The parents house is just down the block though. He could have been over there in an instant with a call to see if Isa was there.

 

[SilkySifaka]

They wouldn't. Unless they had been spying and stalking a la duncan in the Groene case.

But, I think that is a remote possibility. That's a one in a million type of monstrosity. To me, I think it was someone who knew the home and the family. But that person could have been skulking around near the home, though.

Oh I think it was someone from the area but not that they necessarily knew the family except by seeing kids play down the road or go in and out. I can tell you right now where the bedroom of a neighbor catty corner to me is and where the living and kitchen are but have never been in there or know them more than to nod. I can see her cooking when I walk by and the light goes on when they wake up and go to bed in the BR window. LIving room has an entertainment center on the wall.

"stranger" to me means someone not immediate family. Someone outside of the house. Neighbors and their extended circle. Teacher or coach etc. as well as those who live a mile away with no connection. Couey was a stranger to Jessica, they didn't hang out as a family or anything. Westerfield was a stranger to Danielle, just a neighbor.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I am 100% behind the parents, there is nothing but nothing to make me think anything is hinky about either one of them. They seem a loving normal couple with kids they adore.

The creeps who do this sort of thing are completely brazen, look at Kienan Heberts kidnapper who not only took him but returned him to his living room right under LE's nose. (thank god he did too). John Couey walked into a house with a dog and two sleeping adults and quietly took Jessica Lunsford while Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas's kidnappers had a house full and in one case left a live witness. These guys fixate on someone, it isn't just to get a kid but to get the kid they want they are willing to do whatever it takes and they believe they are invincible..which in a way they are bc their chutzpah allows them to get in and out with a child. Joeseph Duncan took Shasta into a gas station store with full video/security cameras after her kidnapping and then to a Dennys.

This mystery figure could easily be the kidnapper.. Even with a wall there, you are talking a six year old frightened out of her wits by a man in her bedroom probably with a knife or weapon who imo is telling her if she makes a sound or doesn't cooperate he will kill her parents and brothers. As an adult I might go with him quietly to keep my family safe, as a six year old there is no question about it. Scale a wall or climb out the window, she would do as she is told. He could push her up over the wall in a minute and she would wait til he climbed over himself, terrified to do anything but what she is told.

Plus the coincidence of a lurking man avoiding being seen the night a girl goes missing just a short walk from her house is to high for me.

imo

Tell me more I missed the bolded part.