17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[vlpate]

Miami HS Clearly suspends for tardiness so I will check Trayvons HS now.

http://mhs.dadeschools.net/students_attendance_tardypolicy.html

Rosova found the information or this district a while back, and if IIRC, tardiness was not an act warranting a 10 day suspension. Zero policy for the marijuana is probably why the 10 days.

 

[JBean]

Rosova found the information or this district a while back, and if IIRC, tardiness was not an act warranting a 10 day suspension. Zero policy for the marijuana is probably why the 10 days.

I think it is ambiguous personally.
This could be a case of "operator" where someone in the school assumed it was for tardiness and that is the story that was repeated. who knows? but so easily verifiable as it relates to the case I don;t think anyone was lying about it.

 

[LambChop]

Link please.

This is what was in the transcript:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.

******
Further down SA asks the question about the inconsistencies in those five statements.

 

[LambChop]

Who knows, City? I certainly don't. I'm trying to take the most simplistic approach possible in my view by considering, literally, only what these people are saying.

My head might explode if I started trying to figure out what these people are TRYING to say, LOL.

The best example I can give you deals with the location of the body. IIRC, the Fox vid says John told them the fight happened directly under that bathroom window. The SPD report says the body was between 1231 Twin Trees and 2831 Retreat View. The SFD says it was in the back yard of 2831 Retreat view. Zimmerman's own lawyer said the evidence suggested it was 70yards from TM's own back door.

And NONE of these locations are "where the sidewalks intersect".

Plenty of people on this site have already attempted to explain how the SPD report and SFD dispatch recording don't mean what they say, so I guess, maybe, something will come along one of these days to clear all of it up.

Thank you Papa. I think you have done a pretty good job of clearing things up with your charts and pictures. lol

 

[JBean]

Personal request.
I keep reading there were 5 differing statements given by Zimmerman. The implication being that they were contradictory.
Can someone please spell those statements out for me,clarify if they were different as in contradictory or different as in 5 different times.

Please do not respond to this post unless you can answer that question completely. What I mean is not looking for a bunch of round about on this. Just want to clarify once and for all even if it is to find out that we don't know.

trying to separate fact from fiction in general.
TIA

 

[vlpate]

That is assuming that John did not go outside. I know we discussed this at length the other day, but was there anything definitively stating that John did not go outside?

(Nice work on the graphics by the way)

Hi Phoenixfla. He wouldn't have to go outside all the way to see or hear the altercation. It happened right off John's patio door, he could have opened it when he heard the yelling. He witnessed part of the attack from downstairs and the rest from his upstairs window. He could see it, he could hear it. The reporter points this out on the video below, and the reporter would know. GZ's father's words are being taken too literally, IMO. That, or maybe misunderstood.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SZRdGIjt_o"]Trayvon Martin Attacking George Zimmermann Screaming "Help!" according to Neighbor - YouTube[/ame]

Does anyone have a link or GZ's father being with him the next day during the reenactment?

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Personal request.
I keep reading there were 5 differing statements given by Zimmerman. The implication being that they were contradictory.
Can someone please spell those statements out for me,clarify if they were different as in contradictory or different as in 5 different times.

Please do not respond to this post unless you can answer that question completely. What I mean is not looking for a bunch of round about on this. Just want to clarify once and for all even if it is to find out that we don't know.

trying to separate fact from fiction in general.
TIA

BBM
I'm not sure if anybody but the investigators can answer your question under those rules...

It is my understanding that there were five different statements, as in five statements given at separate occasions. This comes from the bond hearing. (The numbers three and four were also mentioned.)

It was also said that there were inconsistencies in the statements.

But I have never seen it clarified whether all five statements are different, as in he told five different stories in five different interviews.

I kind of got the impression from the questioning of GZ that he might have sometimes changed his story within the same interview when challenged.

 

[sleonardelli]

Possibly, but I personally have never heard of a student being suspended for tardyness. It seems counterproductive to prevent a student from attending school as punishment for not attending school. Detention seems like a better punishment for tardyness. Suspension for tardyness does not pass the sniff test for me.

Perhaps it was in in-school suspension (ISS) where the students sit in a classroom and twiddle their thumbs for the school day or it could've been alternative to out-of-school suspension (ATOSS) which the students meet off school campus and attend character-building courses. There is a LEO and a "teacher" that run these.

 

[pcrum12]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.

******
Further down SA asks the question about the inconsistencies in those five statements.

GZ also states in that same line of questioning that he recalled giving 3 statements and that he "Absolutely Not" changed his story.

 

[vlpate]

I think it is ambiguous personally.
This could be a case of "operator" where someone in the school assumed it was for tardiness and that is the story that was repeated. who knows? but so easily verifiable as it relates to the case I don;t think anyone was lying about it.

I thought I read somewhere the teacher didn't want to comment. If she did say it was for tardiness, I don't think she was lying either, I just think she didn't feel it was her place to say. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I think the confusion with the five different 'versions' of the story started when people began counting what Joe Oliver said, and the Z brother said, and then what the Z father said, and added that to the two reported versions of what Z himself reportedly said, and so people then would say "There are five different versions of his story out there."

 

[vlpate]

BBM
I'm not sure if anybody but the investigators can answer your question under those rules...

It is my understanding that there were five different statements, as in five statements given at separate occasions. This comes from the bond hearing. (The numbers three and four were also mentioned.)

It was also said that there were inconsistencies in the statements.

But I have never seen it clarified whether all five statements are different, as in he told five different stories in five different interviews.

I kind of got the impression from the questioning of GZ that he might have sometimes changed his story within the same interview when challenged.

I took it as LE was telling him he was being inconsistent, that they didn't believe him, because of things he couldn't recall saying. They could have been putting words in his mouth, and then challenging on those words, because they can, during the latter interviews. JMO

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?

ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that in some of those statement when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you started "I don't remember"? (He doesn't challenge him on the number of times)

O'MARA: Outside the scope of direct examination. I will object your honor.

JUDGE LESTER: We'll give you a little bit of leeway. Not a whole lot but a little bit here, ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?

JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.

O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html
______________________

IMO, de leronda (sp) threw the "5" times in, just like he threw in the bit about Zimmerman trying to contact the parents. It gets the info out there to be repeated until it becomes truth, as is witnessed here.

 

[rotterdam]

Hi Phoenixfla. He wouldn't have to go outside all the way to see or hear the altercation. It happened right off John's patio door, he could have opened it when he heard the yelling. He witnessed part of the attack from downstairs and the rest from his upstairs window. He could see it, he could hear it. The reporter points this out on the video below, and the reporter would know. GZ's father's words are being taken too literally, IMO. That, or maybe misunderstood.

Trayvon Martin Attacking George Zimmermann Screaming "Help!" according to Neighbor - YouTube

Does anyone have a link or GZ's father being with him the next day during the reenactment?

JMO

Here you go
snipped
The day after the shooting, George Zimmerman, according to his father, returned with at least three police officers to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, back to that grassy area where plaintive cries for help had gone unanswered. The investigators, accompanied by someone with a video camera, wanted him to re-enact the events of the night when the two strangers had stood their ground.

Mr. Zimmerman’s father watched from nearby. “They started where his vehicle was,” he recalled. “They walked him down the sidewalk and to the end of the sidewalk, to the street where he got an address and then walked him back towards his vehicle, near where the incident occurred.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...-a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=3&pagewanted=7&hp

 

[Sherbie]

Personal request.
I keep reading there were 5 differing statements given by Zimmerman. The implication being that they were contradictory.
Can someone please spell those statements out for me,clarify if they were different as in contradictory or different as in 5 different times.

Please do not respond to this post unless you can answer that question completely. What I mean is not looking for a bunch of round about on this. Just want to clarify once and for all even if it is to find out that we don't know.

trying to separate fact from fiction in general.
TIA

The only information I'm aware of regarding the number/substance of GZ's statements comes from the bond hearing, as others have posted.

I recall in a press conference or interview after the hearing, a female atty (I believe she might be one of the family attys) mentioned that Zimmerman had given "five different stories" to LE. That may be where that assertion originated.

All I can deduce at this point is that GZ gave 3-5 separate statements to LE and the state asserts there are inconsistencies therein. We need the discovery in order to see for ourselves.

 

[Donjeta]

I think the confusion with the five different 'versions' of the story started when people began counting what Joe Oliver said, and the Z brother said, and then what the Z father said, and added that to the two reported versions of what Z himself reportedly said, and so people then would say "There are five different versions of his story out there."

Doesn't Frank Taaffe count ?

 

[Zak]

GZ also states in that same line of questioning that he recalled giving 3 statements and that he "Absolutely Not" changed his story.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But before you committed this crime on February 26th, you were arrested -- I'm sorry, not arrested. You were questioned that day, right, February 26th?

ZIMMERMAN: That evening into the 27th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the following morning. Is that correct?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the following evening, too. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Would it be fair to say you were questioned about four or five times?
ZIMMERMAN: I remember giving three statements, yes sir.

BBM
de la Rionda at this point says 4 or 5 times. Not sure why he says 5 at other points in his questioning, but here its as if he doesn't know the exact amount of statements/questioning.

 

[vlpate]

Here you go
snipped
The day after the shooting, George Zimmerman, according to his father, returned with at least three police officers to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, back to that grassy area where plaintive cries for help had gone unanswered. The investigators, accompanied by someone with a video camera, wanted him to re-enact the events of the night when the two strangers had stood their ground.

Mr. Zimmerman’s father watched from nearby. “They started where his vehicle was,” he recalled. “They walked him down the sidewalk and to the end of the sidewalk, to the street where he got an address and then walked him back towards his vehicle, near where the incident occurred.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...-a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=3&pagewanted=7&hp

Tyvm rotterdam. So he was "present" while the reenactment was being done. Saying he was "with" him makes it sound like he had some hand in the reenactment. GZ lives at the community, so perhaps his father was at GZ's house and simply watched, along with many others, the reenactment take place.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

GZ also states in that same line of questioning that he recalled giving 3 statements and that he "Absolutely Not" changed his story.

But I believe the message SA was trying to get through to GZ was that those statements were recorded. Those very statements, IMO, would have been to determine what charges the DA should have brought against GZ. The charges now we know are 2nd degree murder. So what inconsistencies led them to believe that. Once those statements are released through discovery we will be able to check them out ourselves. Sometimes when people are inconsistent in the statements because those statements are not based entirely on the truth people are not aware of the inconsistencies and it would be only natural to answer absolutely not. jmo

 

[rotterdam]

Tyvm rotterdam. So he was "present" while the reenactment was being done. Saying he was "with" him makes it sound like he had some hand in the reenactment. GZ lives at the community, so perhaps his father was at GZ's house and simply watched, along with many others, the reenactment take place.

JMO

It would have been nice though if they would have told Mr Martin or Ms Green about the reenactment. Am sure , he would have been very interested. But as far as I know, Mr Martin nor Ms Green was there.
Also, do not think it was a coincidence that RZ Sr was there since he apparently was also present at the interview of GZ on same day..

BTW, that quoted seven page article has a lot of info. It refreshed my memory again.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that would be recorded because all those conversations were recorded, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're sure you said that?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm fairly certain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so which officer did you tell that to? You made five statements I believe, total.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, all the names run together.

******
Further down SA asks the question about the inconsistencies in those five statements.

And how does one come to the conclusion that by GZ stating that he has given 5 statement to then turn that into he has given 5 different statements?

For the life of me I will listen very intently to this explanation.