ITA
And even if she did name MP and JB as her attackers it doesn't really mean much. We all know she was afraid of them. Whether or not they were really trying to kill her or she was freaking out for some reason is the real question.
Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?
- Thread starter Seaslug44
- Start date
- Status
ITA
And even if she did name MP and JB as her attackers it doesn't really mean much. We all know she was afraid of them. Whether or not they were really trying to kill her or she was freaking out for some reason is the real question.
PickleChris
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2011
- Messages
- 538
- Reaction score
- 302
+1 on not taking this guy seriously.
Clem Snide
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Messages
- 282
- Reaction score
- 10
Don't get me wrong. I totally support the Gilbert family. But they need a lawyer who the public can take seriously and this guy does himself no favors with his clown suits. I only hope he isn't taking advantage of them in some way. He just seems like a total slimeball.
rotten dingo
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 2
I'm glad the thyroid vs. hyoid bone thing was cleared up. I was going to say it would be a lot stranger if they had found her *thyroid* bone, since there is no such thing, right?
I was thinking about this. Since the hyoid bone can often show evidence of strangulation...Since the GB4 had signs of strangulation and LE has said repeatedly they do not believe SG is connected to GB4....Since LE has been trying so very hard to convince everyone that SG cartwheeled out of her jeans and ditched her possessions in a pile while making her way through the bramble running from imaginary boogeymen... Who benefits from this missing hyoid bone? Perhaps not only the (possible) killer. If the hyoid is not there to show signs of murder, that sure is convenient for LE to perpetuate their "Shannan drowned" theory.
We know LE sometimes keeps info from the public, lies to bait a suspect, etc. It seems possible to me this could be the case here. So maybe the ME puts the hyoid (and whatever other bone they chose, to make it seem possible for animals to have done this) in his pocket so LE could claim "the bone wasn't present", which in a sneaky way, would be true. The question would be are they doing this to give the killer (lisk or not) a false sense of security? Or for some nefarious reason, to intentionally make a murder seem like an accident?
Whatever the case, it sure seems odd to me that this particular bone is missing. Actually, outright suspicious. I feel so very sorry for the family.
I was thinking about this. Since the hyoid bone can often show evidence of strangulation...Since the GB4 had signs of strangulation and LE has said repeatedly they do not believe SG is connected to GB4....Since LE has been trying so very hard to convince everyone that SG cartwheeled out of her jeans and ditched her possessions in a pile while making her way through the bramble running from imaginary boogeymen... Who benefits from this missing hyoid bone? Perhaps not only the (possible) killer. If the hyoid is not there to show signs of murder, that sure is convenient for LE to perpetuate their "Shannan drowned" theory.
We know LE sometimes keeps info from the public, lies to bait a suspect, etc. It seems possible to me this could be the case here. So maybe the ME puts the hyoid (and whatever other bone they chose, to make it seem possible for animals to have done this) in his pocket so LE could claim "the bone wasn't present", which in a sneaky way, would be true. The question would be are they doing this to give the killer (lisk or not) a false sense of security? Or for some nefarious reason, to intentionally make a murder seem like an accident?
Whatever the case, it sure seems odd to me that this particular bone is missing. Actually, outright suspicious. I feel so very sorry for the family.
truthspider
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,322
- Reaction score
- 28
fracking hilarious clem.... if the lisk dressed like this guy there wouldn't be any victims.
dc20015
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 188
- Reaction score
- 17
For the record, I'm not saying I believe him either. I don't think I can rightly judge his accuracy, honesty, or intellect at this point. However, I am not prepared to just throw anything he says out the window because he dresses funny, and is eccentric. He's as believable/non-believable IMO as anyone in this crazy, confusing case full of *interesting* characters. The claims simply caught my attention and I felt that video of the presser was a little longer and more detailed than others I saw.
So, take from it what you will. Time will tell of Mr. Ray's integrity. It's just another piece of media to draw from to me and I wanted to put it out there.
Just wish we could hear that call..
Peter Brendt
New Member
So baiscally, she told them, JB and MP were about to kill her ... still, she had the time for an 18 minute call. Sorry, but without any evidence, a crime took place at all, with a drug addict with a diagnosed borderline disorder, it all looks right now more like accident. Interesting would be, to hear that tape for speech patterns and speech speed/consistency.
And yes, Ray is riding that dead horse ... of course he does! He is a lawyer and paid to do so.
Peter
Peter Brendt
New Member
Possible reasons to freak out: Drug addict with borderline and under the influence of a drug cocktail, she wasn't used to. By all means, it wasn't her stash at that party, she had no reason to bring hers. But then, if it was JB's stash ... well, some pills look the same but are different. What happens if you get 4 amphetamine instead of 2 amph, 2 Ecstsy? With a borderline patient? Side effects may include heart problems, dehydration, paranoia, ...
Peter
Peter Brendt
New Member
Peter Brendt
New Member
Lets speculate a little. Lets assume, LE has the bones and it is some kind of trick. Then they have to arrest now the guy, who is beating his head on the nearest accessible desktop because he can't believe, LE is that stupid. If they claim, there is no bone and in fact, they have it, what difference does it make for the hypothetical killer? He knows already, he came away with it, after 1 1/2 years, there is just not enough evidence left. All he has to do is keeping his mouth shut. He knows that with or without bone. But police, which is not hypothetical, knows the very same. So why should they even try? To look even more usage disabled than they did all the time?
Peter
fred&edna
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2012
- Messages
- 10,491
- Reaction score
- 57,737
Unknown/Unexplained... that's all this case has been.
In December 2011 Dormer said, "This may be just a young lady who ran into the brush in a hysterical state and fell down and you know, expired for some reason."
I never liked that statement. I thought he was a nincompoop (but I pitied him at times, too). Here we are... after all this time and with the forensic testing done and autopsy complete Suffolk County gives the family and the public nothing more than "unknown". They could've just brought Dormer back and had him repeat his statement.
It's all very unjust.
*jmo
In December 2011 Dormer said, "This may be just a young lady who ran into the brush in a hysterical state and fell down and you know, expired for some reason."
I never liked that statement. I thought he was a nincompoop (but I pitied him at times, too). Here we are... after all this time and with the forensic testing done and autopsy complete Suffolk County gives the family and the public nothing more than "unknown". They could've just brought Dormer back and had him repeat his statement.
It's all very unjust.
*jmo
Peter Brendt
New Member
But then, this is sometimes, how reality works. What shall the ME say? She drowned? No lungs, he can check for water. Strangulation? He can't without that bone and even if he would have it and it is not broken, he can't dismiss strangulation entirely. This is not like a shooting and a fresh body. There you have GSWs, there you have trajectories, maybe GSR near the wound. That is pretty easy. But skeletal remains?
Peter
rotten dingo
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 48
- Reaction score
- 2
Well I was already speculating, but I can speculate a little more. I guess LE might do that for the same reason they would hide info/fib about any other situation...because they think it may someday help the case somehow. It is hard to even formulate a guess why specifically when we have so little info to go on. Why would they withhold info on how any of the dismembered victims were dismembered, for example? (With or without surgical precision, what kind of tool, etc) Obviously the killer of those victims knows how he dismembered them, but LE has some reason for not divulging that info. The killer always knows how he killed someone, but LE withholds info all the time.
But again, it could all be coincidence, and Truthspider's fox got the hyoid bone. Or the cover-up angle, for whatever reason. It just seems to me there are far too many coincidences we are being asked to believe about SG. If she really freaked out for no reason, imagined the threat, and threw herself in a puddle around the way from all the other bodies, then that was one mighty cocktail she had that set it all off....perhaps a cocktail of Murphy's Law Scotch and Bad Luck Benzos.
But again, it could all be coincidence, and Truthspider's fox got the hyoid bone. Or the cover-up angle, for whatever reason. It just seems to me there are far too many coincidences we are being asked to believe about SG. If she really freaked out for no reason, imagined the threat, and threw herself in a puddle around the way from all the other bodies, then that was one mighty cocktail she had that set it all off....perhaps a cocktail of Murphy's Law Scotch and Bad Luck Benzos.
fred&edna
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2012
- Messages
- 10,491
- Reaction score
- 57,737
Yes, as far as the ME and COD, you're right, Peter. However, I think there is sufficient evidence to indicate foul play. I don't think the weather nor the muddy bog she was in were to blame for the fact her clothes were found elsewhere. She was hysterical but she was alive when she called for help. She didn't "just expire". I think LE should've and could've done more.
*jmo
*jmo
Peter Brendt
New Member
Paranoia is a pretty common side effect of bad trips cause by drug mixes, especially with borderline patients. So there is not much coincidence in it, it looks more like a domino-line. Take the wrong pill, go paranoid. That is the reason for the phone call. Next thing, she runs out, meets Coletti and Coletti saw her running off that direction. So not much of a coincidence here.
The undressing thing happens sometimes, it's a known symptom. So well, not much of a coincidence here. If she would have worn the jeans, someone would insist, THAT would be the unbelievable coincidence.
Honestly, I am not entirely sure about drowning. Stress, drug abuse, a bad trip, all together can also end up with a heart attack, even sometimes strokes. Can be the same, she had a heart attack, fell into that puddle and drowned while being unconscious. We will never know, because all they got were skeletal remains. But the point is, there is easily a dozen of possible CODs that can't be dismissed because LE took their good time before looking in the right places.
Peter
truthspider
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,322
- Reaction score
- 28
the fbi has the bones, they also tested for every drug known, they are building an open and shut case, and they aren't going to tell the public ****. they will swoop in and grab mr bigglesworth when they are ready.
Where did you hear that?
Peter Brendt
New Member
Well, they could have been smarter, especially in their search operations. That would have led to an earlier discovery of the remains and therefore better chances, to nail the COD.
But then, there is not much, that actually indicates foul play beyond the point of a drug party gone wrong. She was a borderline patient, I read here on the board months ago. She had a history of drug abuse. She was in an environment in which the drugs didn't come from her own stash.
And the undressing thing? Happens so often, there is even a term for it
aradoxical Undressing. I think, it was AlaskanBlue, who posted that link first:http://www.survivaltopics.com/paradoxical-undressing/
Interesting read.
So by all means, not much really indicating foul play. However, you are right, LE could have done more, or even better, the same, only in the right order and faster. But then, in SK cases round the World, I have studied, I saw always this first phase of "egg-dance".
Peter
Peter Brendt
New Member
Yeah, exactly like they did with Zodiac, West Mesa, the Miami Suitcase murders, the Ft. Worth Three, the Texas Killing Fields, ... I doubt, there is even a complete list of all their successes. Maybe, we should rethink the methodology?
Peter
truthspider
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,322
- Reaction score
- 28
I don't have to hear things. I have the ability to logically conclude on the basis of evidence. You sleuths need to get past having to be spoon fed everything. Where are all the laptops, the recordings, etc? Oh that's right, they are with the fbi. The SCPD are merely a terrible public relations division at this point.
fbi to scpd: "make the media get away from oak beach, tell them she drown or something."
scpd to public: "uhh she went in there and expired, I mean drown, I mean quicksand"
scpd to fbi: "we need the bones back the family's trying to sue"
fbi to scpd: "christ, ok 2 more months, but we need to keep the fingers and hyoid for evidence"
- Status