Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[Peter Brendt]

http://justiceforshannangilbert.wordpress.com/

According to Robin Sax, Attorney, former Sex Crime Prosecutor, and expert on human trafficking, Brewer should be held responsible under the Federal Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000.

Well, they could try it. But if he covered up or helped to cover up, that SG died indirectly from something she got in his house, they have a better case. So, anyone shortsighted enough goes for we can put this tiny thing and this tiny thing on him and then we can construct this and all that comes out of it is maybe 1 year on parole. Or you can go with evidence and hope something better pops up. But arresting to ge the case kicked out already in the arraignment hearing is contra-productive.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Hey Peter -
sorry for thinking you were a lawyer.... I thought that ...
for some reason????

Because I didn't want arrests without evidence? Not just kind of lynch justice?

I've only read that Shannan was a bi-polar and NOT a borderline.
You keep saying she's borderline.

There is a HUGE difference between borderline personality disorder and bi-polar.

Yup, you are right, sorry for the mistake. Of course it's a huge difference. It increases the chances to course a paranoia in her by using the wrong drug cocktail by factor 5? 10? Which makes it even more likely it happened the way everybody told us it happened ...

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

i thought you were on the websleuths radio show
and i thought you were a lawyer...

I am not a lawyer, but I was on the websleuths radio show together with InspectorGadget, DwnTwnSlim and Truthspider on March 4th. And will be there again tomorrow.

but i wasnt mocking you
please dont think i was
cuz i was only thinking out loud

Okay, it just was a bit misunderstanding in the context.

and now that i'm thinking out loud
now that the family has been to the medical examiners office
why oh why can't the police
a) release the report so we can READ it
and
b) release the 911 call so we can all hear it....

they have the 911 call for TWO YEARS now....
and they have had shannan's body since December - ALMOST
6 months.

thanx...
does anyone know?

tkm

Since the late 80s already, the strategy of LE in SK cases has changed. They play it now all in secrecy. Partially, and that is the official reasoning, to protect their investigation, partially, and that is what they never will admit to, in the attempt to escape the media's scrutiny.
Of course, the number of cases, this extreme secrecy led to success is low and on the higher number of cases, they gave their chance away to involve the public, which resulted in the much longer career times of SKs nowadays, but then, Suffolk PD, which had in the past bodies parked there from I don't know how many serial killers, never looked especially good in that kind of case. If you look for PDs that were clever in SK cases, you look rather to Seattle, Orange Co/CA or Tallahassee. Suffolk PD, Galveston PD are rather end of the line when it comes to SKs. And obviously, that doesn'T change with the personal. There must be something with those PDs.

Peter

 

[MrsPC]

If what Mrs. PC says is true and there was no tip (and if Dormer wasn't lying) then its a moot point.

The thing I find curious about it is not the idea behind the tip. Of course it makes sense that a woman seen running towards an area might be found in that area. The thing I find curious is why such a tip would be needed 19 months later to finally find her.

Also, again, to clarify, Shannan Gilbert was diagnosed Bipolar and not Borderline.

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf
COMMISSIONER DORMER:
No, the fly-over of that area didn't indicate anything. She was well covered, it wouldn't have picked it up. But the K-9 people that have been attempting to traverse that area had mentioned to the people that searched the day before, you know, we should go back into that area again. It's an area that we really couldn't check properly. It was swamped, two feet of water at times. You know, when the water table comes up, it's covered with water, you can't get in there, K-9 couldn't get in there. The water was down and so let's give it -- we had another day, we had planned another day of searches. The theory out there was that we got a tip; we didn't get a tip.
We had no information that she was in there. It's just a belief that we had from day one, she had to be in that area, or close to that area because that's where she was last seen. And so this continuous search over the year and a half finally paid off, and hopefully we brought this thing to a successful
conclusion.

IMO, in rereading this, Dormer is basically admitting that area wasn't previously searched for Gilbert. So, why did it take 19 months for them to finally look there? I'm not buying the "water" claim from Dormer.

I also don't understand why the fly-over would not have detected her. Dormer said she was "well covered." But if you look at the photo of her remains...she isn't covered (at least not by heavy foliage, etc.)

 

[truthspider]

If MP were facing a second conviction for sex trafficking ( he served time for a federal sex trafficking conviction previously) I believe he would be more co-operative with LE and provide more details about the events that night.
MOO

<modsnip>, Pak was never conviced ot "sex trafficking".
<modsnip>.

 

[Salem]

If MP were facing a second conviction for sex trafficking ( he served time for a federal sex trafficking conviction previously) I believe he would be more co-operative with LE and provide more details about the events that night.
MOO

Hi Windsor,

Can you please link up the first conviction of Pak? We need a link in order to accept this as true.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[MrsPC]

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214

Pak, 41, had served six months in prison after pleading guilty in August 2004 to a federal charge of conspiracy to misuse a passport. He was arrested on May 11, 2004, at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport after flying from Zurich with a woman from China who had a U.S. passport in someone else's name, according to the indictment.
Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement.

 

[En Passant]

Well what we got here is a failure to communicate.

So if this is the case ..... two neck bones & finger bones were missing......so tell me when they conducted another search specifically looking for these missing bones? If it was any other person, they would research that area for the missing bones....Right????

Something is going down in Ginko-Blinko Beach......
I just would not believe they would not research that area.......Not Prudent.....
I smell a Marlin being landed....they have a duty to search for those bones....They are more thorough when uncovering primitive remains....

They need to get out there & conduct searches till they go over every inch of Hell's Town...<modsnip>

Now I think TruthSpider they should round up all the males & use the device you shared in the pic...that will solve the problem.....I say cut out the cancer

P.S. Are you referring to MP trying to get a girl into this country by using a fake passport???? Nothing was stated just assumed it was for sex trafficking....& that was by us (forum) not the justice system. MP served 5 yrs? not sure if he got off on good behavior....

 

[Seaslug44]

[i][color=red] a federal charge of ...r helping someone commit Passport/Visa fraud.

 

[Peter Brendt]

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf
COMMISSIONER DORMER:
No, the fly-over of that area didn't indicate anything. She was well covered, it wouldn't have picked it up. But the K-9 people that have been attempting to traverse that area had mentioned to the people that searched the day before, you know, we should go back into that area again. It's an area that we really couldn't check properly. It was swamped, two feet of water at times. You know, when the water table comes up, it's covered with water, you can't get in there, K-9 couldn't get in there. The water was down and so let's give it -- we had another day, we had planned another day of searches. The theory out there was that we got a tip; we didn't get a tip.
We had no information that she was in there. It's just a belief that we had from day one, she had to be in that area, or close to that area because that's where she was last seen. And so this continuous search over the year and a half finally paid off, and hopefully we brought this thing to a successful
conclusion.

IMO, in rereading this, Dormer is basically admitting that area wasn't previously searched for Gilbert. So, why did it take 19 months for them to finally look there? I'm not buying the "water" claim from Dormer.

I also don't understand why the fly-over would not have detected her. Dormer said she was "well covered." But if you look at the photo of her remains...she isn't covered (at least not by heavy foliage, etc.)

I understand, that the remains were pretty much impossible to see from a plane. Not much color difference, water all over the area and so on. And K-9 doesn't work in flooded areas. Okay, I can believe that.
But in 19 month, there was the first summer, in which nobody really looked for her, then came winter, the GB4 popped up and suddenly the heat was on Dormer. But I think, it's obvious, that especially Dormer was in way over his head with a SK case. There were other searches in other parts, but I don't think, anybody was really looking for SG till end of spring. And then, the area was flooded again. So what Dormer really tries to cover up, is, that they messed up and didn't look for SG in the times, it was possible.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Well what we got here is a failure to communicate.

So if this is the case ..... two neck bones & finger bones were missing......so tell me when they conducted another search specifically looking for these missing bones? If it was any other person, they would research that area for the missing bones....Right????

Where does that story with the finger come from? I only read about neck bones.
And really, you think, they would go to search for two little bones, regardless who is missing them? No way to find them anyway.

Something is going down in Ginko-Blinko Beach......
I just would not believe they would not research that area.......Not Prudent.....
I smell a Marlin being landed....they have a duty to search for those bones....They are more thorough when uncovering primitive remains....

The guys you talk about are archaeologists, not LE. They would fine comb the area. But under these conditions, they wouldn't find those two little bones either. So lets stay in the realm of the possible, will we?

They need to get out there & conduct searches till they go over every inch of Hell's Town...<modsnip>

Now I think TruthSpider they should round up all the males & use the device you shared in the pic...that will solve the problem.....I say cut out the cancer

Not funny, EnPassant. You make a joke about taking en passant all constitutional rights from all male residents of OB. I admit, that kind of thinking makes me always uncomfortable.

P.S. Are you referring to MP trying to get a girl into this country by using a fake passport???? Nothing was stated just assumed it was for sex trafficking....& that was by us (forum) not the justice system. MP served 5 yrs? not sure if he got off on good behavior....

So the article says. But then, MP was involved with the sex business, or he wouldn't have been out there that night anyway. So technically, nothing really new.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

That's not a conviction for a sex crime, a human trafficking or a sex trafficking crime.

It's a conviction for helping someone commit Passport/Visa fraud.

And it's only one strike anyway. But that whole subject came up with the idea to sweat MP. Only, if LE would be stupid enough to do it, the small chances to pin anything on anyone would fade even more.

Peter

 

[MrsPC]

Just to be clear - there is NO SUCH THING as a "THYROID" bone... the thyroid is a gland, not a bone. One of the first things you would look for when performing a forensic evaluation of a skeleton would be the "HYOID" bone - it is the neck bone that is broken if you strangle someone to death. Here is a picture of it... Does anyone know what other bone besides the hyoid was missing?

thanks again for your photo which prompted me to look at some forensic studies of the hyoid -


http://library-resources.cqu.edu.au/JFS/PDF/vol_43/iss_6/JFSCH71138X.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1289204/pdf/janatphys00032-0001.pdf

From these, I determined an approximate size of an average adult female hyoid bone -

the hyoid is horseshoe shaped and the front part transverse width is approx 2.2 cm or .87 inches wide

the large cornua (side parts on either side of the front) are approx 2.8 cm or 1.10 inches long ea

the hyoid is therefore approx 7.8 cm or 3.07 inches from 1 side to the other. I'm still working on an approx weight.

 

[MrsPC]

In Mari's attorney's presser where he discusses Gilbert's 911 call, he states Shannan can be heard screaming several times in the call. That's weird that his statements totally conflict with Det. Vincent Stephan's January assessment of the call:

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-all-out-effort-for-shannan-1.3473520

I've emailed Mr Stephan to see if he can elaborate on the discrepancy.

 

[MrsPC]

regarding the missing finger bones, toe bones & hyoid or other neck bones...the forensic anthropologist should have been able to tell if the bones were missing due to any animal activity on Gilbert's remains.

http://www.enotes.com/animal-evidence-reference/animal-evidence

 

[Peter Brendt]

regarding the missing finger bones, toe bones & hyoid or other neck bones...the forensic anthropologist should have been able to tell if the bones were missing due to any animal activity on Gilbert's remains.

http://www.enotes.com/animal-evidence-reference/animal-evidence

You realize, this article is talking about animal hairs on clothes and on maggots in open wounds on relative fresh bodies?

Peter

 

[MrsPC]

You realize, this article is talking about animal hairs on clothes and on maggots in open wounds on relative fresh bodies?

Peter

you need to read the whole selection -- paying attention to "bones"

Vultures damage bones with their talons and beaks as they remove the flesh. Coyote, fox, and other wild and domestic canids puncture, tear, and crush the soft tissues by gnawing and shaking their heads, splintering bones, and leaving jagged bone edges through the action of their posterior teeth. Rodents have sharp paralleled incisors that leave parallel furrows in flesh and bones, with a pattern of layered destruction of tissues. Big cats leave v-shaped punctures from their canine teeth, claw slashes, and abrasions, and great amounts of crushed and splintered bones

 

[Peter Brendt]

you need to read the whole selection -- paying attention to "bones"

Vultures damage bones with their talons and beaks as they remove the flesh. Coyote, fox, and other wild and domestic canids puncture, tear, and crush the soft tissues by gnawing and shaking their heads, splintering bones, and leaving jagged bone edges through the action of their posterior teeth. Rodents have sharp paralleled incisors that leave parallel furrows in flesh and bones, with a pattern of layered destruction of tissues. Big cats leave v-shaped punctures from their canine teeth, claw slashes, and abrasions, and great amounts of crushed and splintered bones

Okay, without being a ME or a forensic anthropolgist, we can exclude vultures, most wild canids (not sure about foxes there), jaguars (of the animal variety), lions, and other big cats on Long Island. Also bears appear unlikely from the start. That leaves us, given the area, with mostly smaller birds up to gull, rodents and of course domestic canids. Now, I agree., you could see their work in the tissue ... wait, what tissue? We talk skeletal remains here. So if there was ever any of, for example, y-shaped puncture, it is gone with the tissue. Rodents leave parallel furrows on bones, true. And expescially on the bones they take away and sometimes the neighboring bones. So probably the mssing bones have a lot of those marks ..., well, unless it was a gull, they leave no teeth marks at all and the don't rip like vultures do. But then, I can imagine, they found rodent teethmarks on the bones anyway. On the bones they found. Which probably proves the existence of rodents in the area. But of course, without the missing bones, it doesn't prove what took them ... so ... nice article and probably useful in a case in which you have more than only skeletal remains.

Peter

 

[Seaslug44]

The only one thing that everyone can agree exists in regards to SG's case is pure frustration.

For MG and her family, there shall forever remain the frustration of never being comfortable accepting the lack of answers to the vital questions.

For the investigators there will always remain the frustration of not being able to supply concrete closure to the case.

For anyone who might be accused but actually innocent there shall forever remain the frustration of not being able to convince others of their innocense.

 

[mrspatton]

Oak Beach is not Hell town. As a former long time summer resident I can tell you its a lovely community with part time and full time residents who are very close and enjoy the peace and beauty of the local landscape. We never even locked our doors. As far as animals, foxes, skunks, raccoons, opossums and of course lots of birds. The water does come in and flood the area that Shannon Gilbert was found in, and its also very very dense. To me it makes sense she could have gotten lost and ended up tragically dying in the marsh of causes unrelated to the LISK. Only time will tell of course, but to believe the OB community is some vast cult like community conspiring to keep the truth from being revealed is absolute rubbish!