Witness accounts

[jjenny]

If we can't link these so-called fight club videos, should we even be discussing them?

I think we are allowed to discuss it since there is an msm link about the existence of these alleged videos.

"Newly obtained video recorded before Martin's death shows the teenager encouraging others to fight. However, Martin's brother said Trayvon is not in the video."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...-encouraging-others-to-fight-was-2365042.html

 

[stmarysmead]

The Defense will determine who is in the video (not rely on witness statement)...if they need the material to rebut witness testimony or strengthen defense theory. There is another video today that purports to be TM actually fighting.

First they need to determine if they are legit.

 

[Just K]

And? I think fear for life or great bodily injury is implied if one is getting beat up.

GZ appears to have thrown one blow against TM and that was to shot him. Even if TM slammed GZ to the ground, in an effort to get him to leave him the F alone, and so that he could run away from this man that he no doubt saw a a Mad Man, I honestly believe that GZ was not in any fist fight but more of a knock down scuffle where two people are rolling violently about the ground and one is on top...maybe trying to free himself from what he thinks is a crazy man.

All of GZ's superficial cuts and scratches would be explained by the above. TM's minor cut would be explained by anything tat he came in contact with as he was "scuffling/wrestling" with GZ.

If fall fistfights end with the guy who won't throw a punch shooting the guy on top, then I suggest that there will be a HUGE SPIKE in Death rates amongst the entire young and middle-aged men US population.

(Who takes a gun to fist fight or wrestling match anyway?) My opinion: A Coward, that's who.)

 

[wowitsdark]

In a brutal fast fight you would think Trayvon would have a least a tiny bit of Georges DNA under his fingernails with all the punching and and slamming and grabbing alleged.

Not necessarily. If either man's nails were cut short the nails might not have been used to create a 'hold'.

The majority of TM's body was covered in fabric. Only his hands and face were exposed (given that he had his hoodie up).

The majority of GZ's body was covered in fabric, as well. He had on long sleeves. It's even possible, if what GZ alleges is true, that TM had him by the shoulders and was slamming his head / upper body onto the concrete.

The lacerations are a bit odd to me, though, in that I would think concrete would tend to make hamburger out of skin, rather than slice it. It would have been helpful for them to have examined his wounds prior to cleaning them to determine if there was miniscule debris (such as sand that sometimes separates out of concrete) in it... or has been suggested, perhaps plant material from bushes.

 

[JBean]

Post lands randomly.
the topic in here is discussion of witness acounts.
if your conversation detours off into a specific area- please take it to the appropriate thread.
Gracias.

 

[dennys]

I believe there is some suspicion with regards to the reports made Officer Timothy Smith, first officer on the scene, and that is why two passages from his incident report are blacked out in the "discovery dump". However, I was able to find the contents of his blacked out passages on the original police reports that were made public a while back, here is the link :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87828890/Sanford-FL-police-report-on-Trayvon-Martin

In the 1st passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes (february 27th :
"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me. At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police department where he was questioned by investigators.

Here is the interview of the SFD parademic who attended to Zimmerman. The DA makes a point ask him if Zimmerman made any statements to him, his reply was no.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

In the 2nd passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes(february 27th) :
"Zimmerman was placed in an interview room at SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigations and this was the extent of my involvement in this case."

However, Officer T. Smith files a supplemental on March 1st to his initial report, that is now available for viewing in the "document dump", noting that he was in contact from the time he secured Zimmerman on the scene until the time he was released from investigative detention, citing monitoring Zimmerman's health...interesting !

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I believe there is some suspicion with regards to the reports made Officer Timothy Smith, first officer on the scene, and that is why two passages from his incident report are blacked out in the "discovery dump". However, I was able to find the contents of his blacked out passages on the original police reports that were made public a while back, here is the link :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87828890/Sanford-FL-police-report-on-Trayvon-Martin

In the 1st passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes (february 27th :
"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me. At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police department where he was questioned by investigators.

Here is the interview of the SFD parademic who attended to Zimmerman. The DA makes a point ask him if Zimmerman made any statements to him, his reply was no.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

In the 2nd passage that is blacked out (in discovery dump), Officer Smith writes(february 27th) :
"Zimmerman was placed in an interview room at SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigations and this was the extent of my involvement in this case."

However, Officer T. Smith files a supplemental on March 1st to his initial report, that is now available for viewing in the "document dump", noting that he was in contact from the time he secured Zimmerman on the scene until the time he was released from investigative detention, citing monitoring Zimmerman's health...interesting !

Isn't that an interesting fact.

 

[stmarysmead]

Isn't that an interesting fact.

How tragic that GZ's cries for help went unanswered. This whole tragedy might have been avoided if TM's beating of GZ had just been stopped by other onookers.

 

[suzihawk]

How tragic that GZ's cries for help went unanswered. This whole tragedy might have been avoided if TM's beating of GZ had just been stopped by other onookers.

The entire tragedy would have been avoided if Zimmerman had phoned in his (incorrect) suspicions and let law enforcement do their job rather than taking the law into his own hands. Now there is a young boy dead and he's charged with second degree murder.

 

[vlpate]

never watched it. I follow real cases and sadly dna is found under the nails of little children who fought for their lives while being raped and murdered. Im thinkin in this case where gz claims to be beaten so severely that he had to take the life of TM, there would be dna.... but thats me......

There are many real cases of children and adults who've fought their attacker without DNA being found beneath their fingernails.

 

[stmarysmead]

The entire tragedy would have been avoided if Zimmerman had phoned in his (incorrect) suspicions and let law enforcement do their job rather than taking the law into his own hands. Now there is a young boy dead and he's charged with second degree murder.

Or one might argue, it might have been avoided if TM had gone home to watch that game and not beaten Gz to such an extent that GZ feared for his life.

 

[suzihawk]

Or one might argue, it might have been avoided if TM had gone home to watch that game and not beaten Gz to such an extent that GZ feared for his life.

That's exactly what he was attempting to do when Zimmerman interferred. He was walking home from the store with his purchases to enjoy the game with his soon to be step brother.

 

[liedetector]

If that were true TM was no longer a "threat" to GZ. I'm curious to see GZ's statements because I'm wondering at any time did GZ ever yell out to TM, "I'm Neighborhood Watch"????? jmo

BBM. Since Serino stated that this whole thing was "ultimately avoidable if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or converserly if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue in an effort to dispel each party’s concern," I would say no, GZ never told TM "I'm Neighborhood Watch," or anything remotely like that. Besides, had Zimmerman identified himself in any one of statements, you'd better believe Mark O'Mara would have made it loud and clear by now!

 

[vlpate]

--john isn't sure who was screaming that night either.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/na...in-evidence-witness6-20120518,0,1900533.story

Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting: I'm no longer sure Zimmerman was crying for help

Also from your link:

"The witness did not, however, change his account that Trayvon was the one on top as he and Zimmerman fought. He identified both combatants by skin color and by the color of their clothes, although he described Zimmerman's orange jacket as red, and Trayvon's dark gray hoodie as black.

"The black guy was on top," he told FDLE Investigator John Batchelor. "The guy that was on the ground, under him at that point, wrestling, was definitely a lighter color."

 

[PaperDoll]

Not sure this is the right thread to post this in, or GZ injuries. Oh well, her it goes.. Here is what I read in 2 of the witness reports which gets me to think that maybe some of GZ injuries were due to possibly falling into a bush, or trip and fall on the ground while pursing TM.

In short:
Witness: "heard a scuffle or rustling of BUSHES coming from behind his residence"

Witness: Saw a man lying on the ground that looked like they couldn't get up and was yelling for help. He looked to have a red shirt on. Didn't hear any arguing or see anyone else"

Makes me wonder if George was yelling for help because he fell and hurt himself?????

 

[vlpate]

That's exactly what he was attempting to do when Zimmerman interferred. He was walking home from the store with his purchases to enjoy the game with his soon to be step brother.

He should have kept walking. Seven minutes is an awfully long time to travel a football field, at the most. The timeline is going to be a big part of this case.

Still wondering if that little soon to be step brother is going to be called as a witness. It will be interesting to see what he says when asked, "how long had you known Trayvon"? Tracy was only separated a few weeks from his wife when the shooting occurred. He, hopefully, didn't know his mom's fiance that well.

 

[vlpate]

Not sure this is the right thread to post this in, or GZ injuries. Oh well, her it goes.. Here is what I read in 2 of the witness reports which gets me to think that maybe some of GZ injuries were due to possibly falling into a bush, or trip and fall on the ground while pursing TM.

In short:
Witness: "heard a scuffle or rustling of BUSHES coming from behind his residence"

Witness: Saw a man lying on the ground that looked like they couldn't get up and was yelling for help. He looked to have a red shirt on. Didn't hear any arguing or see anyone else"

Makes me wonder if George was yelling for help because he fell and hurt himself?????

And then Trayvon went to help him up and GZ shot him? Just wondering how the above would play out.

 

[stmarysmead]

Or one might argue, it might have been avoided if TM had gone home to watch that game and not beaten Gz to such an extent that GZ feared for his life.

One might argue that and I respect tha right....or one might argue that TM doubled back and decided to savagely beat this weird man. We do hear TM speaking first and initiating the verbal "confrontation."

If we do not know...and there are no witnesses...the presumption of innocence goes to GZ.

 

[suzihawk]

He should have kept walking. Seven minutes is an awfully long time to travel a football field, at the most. The timeline is going to be a big part of this case.

Still wondering if that little soon to be step brother is going to be called as a witness. It will be interesting to see what he says when asked, "how long had you known Trayvon"? Tracy was only separated a few weeks from his wife when the shooting occurred. He, hopefully, didn't know his mom's fiance that well.

Zimmerman shouldn't have interfered.

What bearing or relevance does the amount of time Brandi's son knew Trayvon have on this case? Or Tracy Martin's relationship with Brandi, for that matter.

 

[PaperDoll]

And then Trayvon went to help him up and GZ shot him? Just wondering how the above would play out.

I'm just going by what I read from a part of the witness statements which makes me wonder. I wasn't there to see what happened, like all of us here, we are going by WHAT WE THINK MAY HAVE HAPPENED!!!!