AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[pieper4]

Like you, they look like cages to me. Like something that would keep you trapped inside with the fire, rather than letting you out into safety.

I'm surprised that, since snowbirds seem to favour them, they don't actually attract burglars. I have a friend who lives in an area that has lots of summer houses. She says it's the houses with gates across the driveway that are often targeted for burglary because those gates are an indicator that a burglary won't be discovered for days, weeks, even months.

I've said that many times, too. It's like painting a bulls eye on your home. Yet people do it/get a sense of security from the bars and driveway gates. Most snow birders probably have alarms, too.

I have one neighbor who is unduly proud of their caged front patio. It looks like a zoo enclosure. They also have window bars. The funny part is I was at another neighbor's home one evening with these 'cage' people and a bunch of LE/judges. Someone was talking about shopping for a home in Tucson and stated "I refuse to even look in an area with bars". "Cage" owner's response (he's also retired LE) was that he was armed to the hilt. HUH?!? Maybe there's some unspoken belief that bars = weapons that I'm not aware of.

 

[butterfly1978]

One way a perp could have gotten Isa out with out waking anyone or Isa screaming is if he cloroformed her, knocked her out while he got her out.

 

[Carpe Pacem]

i've said it before, kudos to the citizens of tucson. i hope each and every contributor receives a hand-written thank you note from the family.

They very well may. It broke my heart to see Chandra Levy's mom on TV, in anguish because of her missing daughter. I sent a donation to the Carrington Foundation, and was awed to receive a handwritten thank-you from Mrs. Levy herself some time later.

It takes a very goodhearted person to do that in the midst of their grieving.

 

[pieper4]

During AS's interview with Nancy Grace, she started out standing next to another woman (maybe a NG producer?) in front of the breezeway. NG asked her to show the breezeway and Isa's window.

AS turned and walked away from the camera into the breezeway. As she walked, she said that her window was right across from Isabel's window. She walked by a normal looking window that looked to me to be a few feet forward of where Isa's window is located.

Then AS stopped opposite Isabel's window. Just beyond her was a rectangular opening that could have been a window with a wooden lattice over it or might have been a swamp cooler opening (I'm not familiar enough with the architecture of the area to know for sure which is which).

I wasn't certain which of the two AS was indicating but she was clearly saying that her window is opposite of Isabel's window.

That latticed window is very likely their garage based on that type of home style/era.

 

[pieper4]

They very well may. It broke my heart to see Chandra Levy's mom on TV, in anguish because of her missing daughter. I sent a donation to the Carrington Foundation, and was awed to receive a handwritten thank-you from Mrs. Levy herself some time later.

It takes a very goodhearted person to do that in the midst of their grieving.

Bouncing off you because... ummmm... it made sense at the time?!?

I do a lot of fundraising for ALS. Yesterday I got my handwritten note and a bracelet in the mail from the ALS Association thanking me. It came postage due. :floorlaugh:

 

[winterrose]

I just saw a new Isabel Celis facebook opened, link was posted on the Find Isabel Celis that her family's set up. There was a photo on there of SC and JV, it was for the May 6th charity softball game and SC coached in the game. I thought of so many parents with missing children, like Chandra's parents and the heartbreak of the Smart's, what a difference.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/isabel-celis-parents-attend-charity-softball-game/

Isabel's father Sergio was coaching his team from the first-base line.

"Being around family and watching them play," Sergio Celis said, "that's a lot of fun."

Sergio Celis said it was still difficult to enjoy himself.

"It is all for Isabel," Sergio Celis said, "and we can't go crawling under a rock. We do got to be out there."

 

[gitana1]

If Isa normally slept in her brothers' room, how did this stranger get so lucky? I wonder how he chose her room, instead of the boys' room.

The important part is "if". We only heard that once, from a NG report that stated "sources" said Isa usually slept with her brothers.

Considering how often NG gets things wrong, I take that with a grain of salt.

One way a perp could have gotten Isa out with out waking anyone or Isa screaming is if he cloroformed her, knocked her out while he got her out.

How about just telling her if she makes a sound he'll kill her and her whole family? That tends to work with kids, unfortunately.

 

[Whisperer]

From what I know there was no signs of forced entry. So nobody used tools to get that screen off. If tools were used there would be marks.

The fact that the perp covered the places where LE would look is another point that is unusual in the normal pedophile abductions. No one likes to take the time to clean up unless it is an inside job..mo.

We have been told a dog hit. There were two types, cadaver and scent trained. I'll stick my neck out and say it was a cadaver hit. I would expect the scent dog to hit.Speaking of scent dogs, how come that dog didn't lead the trail the perp took? Le always releases that info. Never saw when they didn't.

If this is a stranger abduction, why isn't LE putting everyone on alert. If they believed this to be fact, they would be begging for public's help...not so.

Le has releasaed that father has been asked to stay away and have no contact with his sons. How many innocent fathers of a missing child are handed this mandate? This father did not notice the window was wide open and the drapes pulled back? What self-respecting criminal pulls the drapes back?

How would a stranger know what window to enter during the hours of midnight to 0600am? Furthermore, to add fuel to the fire, he enters with a teen and another child right next door but picks the room with the girl. I will never be convinced that somebody climbed in and took Isa out the window and walked around the yard with two large dogs.

The house dog must not have made any noise either. Just beam me up Scotty.



:ufo:

 

[Whisperer]

In order for this all to work to believe a stranger took Isa, many assumptions have to be made:

1. we have to believe three dogs didn't bark
2. we have to believe the stranger knew where Isa slept (if her curtains were closed)
3. we have to assume Isa didn't put up a fight.
4. we have to assume the brothers never heard a thing
5. we have to assume sergio and rebecca both sleep very soundly.
6. we have to assume if the dogs did bark, not one member of the house heard them.
7. we have to assume CPS is just separating sergio for stupid reasons.
8. we have to assume the 911 call was just a fluke and sergio is a cool cucumber.
9. we have to assume the neighbor is wrong about voices and barking dogs because no criminal would abduct in the wake of dawn.
10. we have to assume the parents passed a poly.
11. we have to assume the "Hit" was a scent dog hit of a stranger; not a cadaver dog hit.

See, in order to fit a stranger, we would have to make all these assumptions and, imo, we can't base a theory of stranger abduciton and elimate the parents on this many assumptions.

 

[Whisperer]

I know, all to well, that there are stranger abductions. The smartest move would have been taking Isa from a less secure location. I know pedophiles sometimes aren't the smartest tool in the shed but this one (if it is) was cagey, smart and very lucky.

I can't tell you things I know about some abductors but some do things that are truley crazy..like richard allen davis, who was drunk as a skunk that Friday night. It can happen and he had no record of being a pedophile. His record has lots of alcohol and drug related crimes.

This case could be another case like that and the guy got darn lucky. The problem is the father has some baggage now and it is not looking good. I know there are optimists (thank goodness for them) that will always battle for the underdog. Right now, Sergio is looking like an underdog. This criminal had a six hour window. I would like to know if either car in the garage was warm to the touch. OH, shoot, Rebecca drove one, so that leaves another clue to eliminate the parents gone down the tubes.

I wonder how they did on the poly. If they passed, there's a good chance they can be eliminated. Only LE knows. This dog barking or not barking has me stumped. I can't imagine the perp walking around the yard with Isa in the daylight and no one, human or animal, took note.

So who's voices were out there in the yard @ 0630?

....I blogged enough for tonight..too much. Sometimes my mind goes in overdrive. Goodnight all!
fftobed:

 

[azmary]

I was on my way to work today, my shift starts at 3pm. I was at the corner of Glenn and Campbell and watched as a young Police Officer was searching dumpsters. There was no urgency in his walk as he went from business to business this Sunday. The area he was in has Garbage pick up today on Monday.
I just felt sick to my stomach. I saw other drivers back up and watch him. If I didn't have to work I would have offered to help him.

 

[pieper4]

I'm not an advocate of polys for lots of reasons... but I have to believe that at least one, if not both, parents may have failed. It is certainly possible that based on that in conjunction with other possible "issues" local LE is looking in that direction.

I also have to believe that there is more to this case than meets the eye. Whether it will be revealed on a chunk of drywall, a phone tap, as-yet-un-released videotape or intelligence report. Someone removed Isabel from her home. Someone somewhere knows. We're leaving her fate to LE and their skills or perhaps the length of their arms.

 

[pieper4]

I was on my way to work today, my shift starts at 3pm. I was at the corner of Glenn and Campbell and watched as a young Police Officer was searching dumpsters. There was no urgency in his walk as he went from business to business this Sunday. The area he was in has Garbage pick up today on Monday.
I just felt sick to my stomach. I saw other drivers back up and watch him. If I didn't have to work I would have offered to help him.

I wish, most fervently, that I could say I've seen the same on my end or the county. This entire case seems to have stalled out weeks ago in regards to active, local searches. Is there a reason? We don't know.

 

[azmary]

I wish, most fervently, that I could say I've seen the same on my end or the county. This entire case seems to have stalled out weeks ago in regards to active, local searches. Is there a reason? We don't know.

I am troubled by the fact that le would not allow the public help in this case. I am just remembering the case of the kidnapped little girl years ago in Tucson and the public was all out in full force, I know le re-checked an area and found the girl in an abandoned car. The thought was had they found her earlier she would not have bled to death. I wonder if that case set the tone for future searches.

 

[GrainneDhu]

One way a perp could have gotten Isa out with out waking anyone or Isa screaming is if he cloroformed her, knocked her out while he got her out.

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly curious.

How easy/difficult is it to obtain chloroform in the US?

I know if you're not overly picky about purity, it's rather easy to find ether but in less than medical grade purity, it's very dicey stuff.

 

[Eileen730]

Why question that statement and not question that she said they took the window out of our house? It is plain to me she is speaking hysterically. I am not so sure her English is that good especially when excited. jmo

Why wouldnt their English be good?
They did NOT just arrive here from Mexico!

 

[Eileen730]

I'm not an advocate of polys for lots of reasons... but I have to believe that at least one, if not both, parents may have failed. It is certainly possible that based on that in conjunction with other possible "issues" local LE is looking in that direction.

I also have to believe that there is more to this case than meets the eye. Whether it will be revealed on a chunk of drywall, a phone tap, as-yet-un-released videotape or intelligence report. Someone removed Isabel from her home. Someone somewhere knows. We're leaving her fate to LE and their skills or perhaps the length of their arms.

I hear you about Polygraphs but its the best tool Law Enforcement has to rule ppl out...PPl that do crimes LIE! If someone fails the test LE takes a closer look at them...
Same with the voice stress tests!

 

[Eileen730]

I wish, most fervently, that I could say I've seen the same on my end or the county. This entire case seems to have stalled out weeks ago in regards to active, local searches. Is there a reason? We don't know.

I think LE knows that the parents know where she is and that she is not alive.
JMO...

 

[Eileen730]

I know, all to well, that there are stranger abductions. The smartest move would have been taking Isa from a less secure location. I know pedophiles sometimes aren't the smartest tool in the shed but this one (if it is) was cagey, smart and very lucky.

I can't tell you things I know about some abductors but some do things that are truley crazy..like richard allen davis, who was drunk as a skunk that Friday night. It can happen and he had no record of being a pedophile. His record has lots of alcohol and drug related crimes.

This case could be another case like that and the guy got darn lucky. The problem is the father has some baggage now and it is not looking good. I know there are optimists (thank goodness for them) that will always battle for the underdog. Right now, Sergio is looking like an underdog. This criminal had a six hour window. I would like to know if either car in the garage was warm to the touch. OH, shoot, Rebecca drove one, so that leaves another clue to eliminate the parents gone down the tubes.

I wonder how they did on the poly. If they passed, there's a good chance they can be eliminated. Only LE knows. This dog barking or not barking has me stumped. I can't imagine the perp walking around the yard with Isa in the daylight and no one, human or animal, took note.

So who's voices were out there in the yard @ 0630?

....I blogged enough for tonight..too much. Sometimes my mind goes in overdrive. Goodnight all!
fftobed:

In MY Opinion The voices belonged to Sergio and Rebecca!!!!
She was leaving for work ...

 

[Eileen730]

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly curious.

How easy/difficult is it to obtain chloroform in the US?

I know if you're not overly picky about purity, it's rather easy to find ether but in less than medical grade purity, it's very dicey stuff.

UMMMM Lets ask Mrs. Anthony!!!!!

I do not think anyone abducted that child.... I think something happend to her in the home and the parents are trying to cover it up.