AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Azcrabcakes]

While i really respect all of the time and efford JohnQ has put into his sleuthing, i felt the need to respectfully disagree with a statement that he made.

Only speaking for myself here, but I feel that "Dad" either was involved or knows more than he is saying. (JMO)

Just because I feel that way (and there is plenty of evidence that leads me in that direction) doesn't mean that he is being "railroaded."

i am reserving judgement over your prime suspect.

As for the RSO that Dad offered up when LE arrived. I am 99 percent positive he is NOT involved here. (doesn't mean he is good person)

I just find it odd that good old Dad allowed Isabel to play down the street KNOWING that he lived there, but when she vanishes he is thrown to the wolves.

all respectfully jmo

Is it documented that Isabel was allowed to play "down the street" unsupervised? I have seen this mentioned a few times, but I've not seen nor found it anywhere. I'm sure it has, because it as been mentioned!

 

[time]

1. I don't think we can be certain it was NMc. The same officer ran into this neighbor witness right after his run in with NMc, and he did not seem to make the correlation that I could see. He had said PLAIN white shirt, and the witness had stated "Car World"
2. not following lol sorry
3. The bad driving records added up as suspect in regards to RC and SC for some, why not for NMc? (Rhetorical question) BTW did you look in other states that he's associated with? IMO he's not the kickboxer, as that guy looked much younger.

Everyone is a viable POI in this case...IMO

BBM - agree!

anyone know if it could have been from this "Car World" in Tucson.

http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Car.World.Tucson.AZ.520-888-5555/map?novum=1#feedback-reviews 3400 N Oracle Rd, Tucson, AZ 85705

 

[PAXIMUS]

What evidence is there to suggest that this NMCD gentleman would harm a child or even have any desire to do so? Just because he decided to help the family and look around for her after it was made known she was missing, this makes him suspect?

Maybe I am missing something.

It is the same with those who think Sergio showed signs of being on drugs during his media appearances, I dont think people realize how difficult it is to go through what he had been through, possibly grilled by investigators daily for up to 8 hours straight locked in a room and made to account for every thought and action for weeks prior in addition to little or no sleep due to stress and worry about where his little girl is. It is a living hell to be under the microscope of the police during an investigation and I personally think they held up rather well all things considered.


As for the documents, there is nothing in them that is going to be even remotely close to telling what or who the police are really looking at, everything they released in those documents is mostly meaningless and of no importance to the real investigation and only served to feed the public frenzy and get those who think they werent doing anything off their backs for a while.

It is bread and circuses.

 

[time]

Well, if it was NMc on the box in the alley a half hour to forty five minutes before officer came across the VW in the park, then I see him as strongly suspect. Could he have changed his shirt?

Here's a scenario... he took Isa to that empty house on Essex, the one in the reports with a pool almost empty, with a part that looked recently disturbed?
As soon as he saw police activity he drove back to the house on Essex to get rid of some evidence. The neighbor catches him just after he comes over the fence with evidence bagged by LE in the alleyway. He had sat down on the box for a second. He changed his Car World shirt into the plain white shirt before the officer ran into him in the park, where he had been checking on other evidence.
IDK just trying to make it fit...

Interesting theory ... I would certainly entertain it. Or the logo was on the back as JQP said or the shirt was turned inside out (searching here

I think it could also be possible the writing was a logo and was small so officer didn't note it in the summary - sometimes there are longer reports or 'notes' that we would not have.

 

[Prof]

Car world was printed on THE BACK of the shirt, its possible the officer did not see the logo on the rear of the shirt when he spoke to him.

:waitasec: Where do you see this?

It does not state that in the report I am seeing.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

Not defending <modsnip>, but my first reaction upon hearing the odd response of needing to rush home for breakfast is maybe he is diabetic. Or hypoglycemic. He may have needed to get home for insulin and/or food. He is still very suspicious to me, but m-a-y-b-e his rush was medically instigated.

 

[johnQpublic]

:waitasec: Where do you see this?

It does not state that in the report I am seeing.

Call the Dealership ... I've seen the shirt's they wear.. and yes.. I called the dealership. The screen printing is on the rear of the shirts.

 

[Prof]

Interesting theory ... I would certainly entertain it. Or the logo was on the back as JQP said or the shirt was turned inside out (searching here

I think it could also be possible the writing was a logo and was small so officer didn't note it in the summary - sometimes there are longer reports or 'notes' that we would not have.

Usually the report refers to another report or audio or summary.
I just would think that this officer, who just encountered NMc in the park just before he encountered the homeowner on Essex, might have noted the similarity in description, or asked the homeowner more questions, or at least noted the tee shirt said Car World. Why would a neighbor notice it and not an LE officer, who noted that the car belonged in Isa's neighborhood?
IMO this officer did not think the two people were the same person.

 

[Patty G]

How many "males" have white T-Shirts in their wardrobe?

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Is it documented that Isabel was allowed to play "down the street" unsupervised? I have seen this mentioned a few times, but I've not seen nor found it anywhere. I'm sure it has, because it as been mentioned!

In the first interview (packet 1 page 62) when Dad is interviewed -he says that (he and Isabel) play outside and down the street. i have read that several times and that is the FIRST time I read that he played with her. (So much for reading comprehension) ....

My next thought is -were any neighbors asked if they ever saw him playing with his daughter down the street. I think that was a CYA statement because he was offering up the RSO.

I have been taught when asked a question-if it can be answered with a yes or no, do it. If a person offers way more words than necessary be on guard. (just my experience) :seeya:

 

[Madeleine74]

As for the documents, there is nothing in them that is going to be even remotely close to telling what or who the police are really looking at, everything they released in those documents is mostly meaningless and of no importance to the real investigation and only served to feed the public frenzy and get those who think they werent doing anything off their backs for a while.

It is bread and circuses.

Indeed! But hey, it works so well. Barnum & Bailey are smiling down and giving the thumbs-up to LE for using this tactic. They use it because...it works! The public is so easily distracted by the shiny new toy (aka docu dump). Although I do concede there are some hints at where they are looking. Inside the house. At the family. At all the family.

Illusionists use this tactic to great effect as well. They get the audience to look over there, while they are busy elsewhere. :applause:

 

[PAXIMUS]

By the way I am not trying to poopoo on the whole NMC line of thinking I just really wondered if I was missing something because if a little girl from my immediate neighborhood went missing and I got wind of that from the parents I would immediately start looking around too, so that doesnt really make me suspect him. Maybe there is more to it and I missed it though?

 

[time]

Usually the report refers to another report or audio or summary.
I just would think that this officer, who just encountered NMc in the park just before he encountered the homeowner on Essex, might have noted the similarity in description, or asked the homeowner more questions, or at least noted the tee shirt said Car World. Why would a neighbor notice it and not an LE officer, who noted that the car belonged in Isa's neighborhood?
IMO this officer did not think the two people were the same person.

I can't remember... did they keep NM in their sight after the officer encounter. Maybe that is why he wasn't as worried about the clothing? Maybe the officer just made a mistake in not looking at him thoroughly also.

BBM ... maybe it was then he realized it could be the same person - after talking with the Essex homeowner

 

[PAXIMUS]

Indeed! But hey, it works so well. Barnum & Bailey are smiling down and giving the thumbs-up to LE for using this tactic. They use it because...it works! The public is so easily distracted by the shiny new toy (aka docu dump). Although I do concede there are some hints at where they are looking. Inside the house. At the family. At all the family.

Illusionists use this tactic to great effect as well. They get the audience to look over there, while they are busy elsewhere. :applause:

LOL sadly it is true.

 

[buggsmom]

Where.. I am not finding that description matching the other witness...

I have seen the witness on Essex describe the man on the electrcial box a white shirt with "Car World" printed on the front. I saw the officer describe NMc coming out of the park with a "plain white tee shirt."

The only thing that seems to match is the white tee, but the officer said "plain white" and the other description of the guy in the alley 45 minutes earlier had a "car world" shirt on...

As far as descriptions, that is all I have seen
As far as what was taken from NMc home all I see is a white tee shirt.

Could be that the officer saw him from the front - plain white -
And the neighbor saw him from the back - "Car World" on a plain white shirt...JAT

ETA...slow reader over here!...I'm catching up and see the issue of front vs back is being discussed.

 

[Mjskit]

First let me say that I know nothing about LE procedures. Maybe someone who has followed other cases would know the rules LE follows.

I am wondering if the names that have not been redacted have been cleared by LE as suspects. I think LE did say some people have been cleared but not specifically who.

I am suspicious of those who names do not show in the documents, such as JM.

He was around, he was interviewed by reporters, so we know LE has investigated him. Yet, there is no mention of him in these files. What about the RSO who lives a few doors down? Is he mentioned in the docs? I dont know his name so I can't say.

Anyway, if I were LE I would not release any information relative to a potential suspect. Just my way of thinking.. IMO

 

[Prof]

Call the Dealership ... I've seen the shirt's they wear.. and yes.. I called the dealership. The screen printing is on the rear of the shirts.

I still think that this officer who noted right away the VW in the park that belonged to someone on the Celis St, (that is one alert officer IMO) enough to wait 20 minutes watching the car, would put two and two together when he interviewed the homeowner on Essex who described a male in detail.
All we have is two white tee shirts IMO and an officer who did not in any way note that the man in the alley witnessed an hour or less before may have been the same man in the park.
I think it's just important to point this small point out. I don't think I would assume the two men are the same JMO from what we have from
the investigating officer.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In the first interview (packet 1 page 62) when Dad is interviewed -he says that (he and Isabel) play outside and down the street. i have read that several times and that is the FIRST time I read that he played with her. (So much for reading comprehension) ....

My next thought is -were any neighbors asked if they ever saw him playing with his daughter down the street. I think that was a CYA statement because he was offering up the RSO.

I have been taught when asked a question-if it can be answered with a yes or no, do it. If a person offers way more words than necessary be on guard. (just my experience) :seeya:

Why do you think he was offering up the RSO? I would immediately make LE aware that there was a RSO living right up the street from where my child went missing.

I had already heard that from a neighbor who said he would see Sergio and Isa walking in the neighborhood and Sergio would have Isa up on his shoulders. They were probably walking back and forth to Grandma's home.

LOL! Very few people can answer a question with just 'yes' or 'no.' Even in court they cant do it and have to be reminded to do so. When I see people that answer just with an abrupt 'yes' or 'no' my hinky meter goes up and it makes me think they have been advised to answer that way by an attorney so they dont reveal any other information. :floorlaugh:

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

By the way I am not trying to poopoo on the whole NMC line of thinking I just really wondered if I was missing something because if a little girl from my immediate neighborhood went missing and I got wind of that from the parents I would immediately start looking around too, so that doesnt really make me suspect him. Maybe there is more to it and I missed it though?

I agree. If I found out a child in my county was missing, I would be the first to throw on my work boots and hit the hills. That being said, I would easily be the McD guy who LE see all over the country looking under things , in windows...etc. NOT because i am guilty -because i care.

 

[Prof]

Could be that the officer saw him from the front - plain white -
And the neighbor saw him from the back - "Car World" on a plain white shirt...JAT

ETA...slow reader over here!...I'm catching up and see the issue of front vs back is being discussed.

I think the neighbor saw him from the front, as he reported seeing him sitting on a utility box that is up against a fence in the alleyway. He spoke to the man. I suppose he could have told the officer that the logo was on the back of the shirt, but why not note that? and usually if you describe someone with a logo on a shirt, that logo is on the front IMO