AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Ladylub]

You don't think they got what they want? Usually after initial warrants they name exactly what they want .... in any warrant you have to be pretty specific. I think they have what they need.

They got what they wanted from the people they are looking at right now. When they go in after certain things it means there is evidence to say hey we need to look at this. If this person is outside of the family and reads those warrants it will only be like a check list for the person to say okay got rid of that, cleaned that etc.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Why do you think he was offering up the RSO? I would immediately make LE aware that there was a RSO living right up the street from where my child went missing.

I had already heard that from a neighbor who said he would see Sergio and Isa walking in the neighborhood and Sergio would have Isa up on his shoulders. They were probably walking back and forth to Grandma's home.

LOL! Very few people can answer a question with just 'yes' or 'no.' Even in court they cant do it and have to be reminded to do so. When I see people that answer just with an abrupt 'yes' or 'no' my hinky meter goes up and it makes me think they have been advised to answer that way by an attorney so they dont reveal any other information. :floorlaugh:

So now "Dad" has to inform LE of all the RSO's in the area? I am pretty sure they are aware of this RSO. Besides, from "Dad's" own words he is a nice guy.
Playing and walking are two different things-imo.

When a person is asked who they think took their daughter, since that was HIS accusation-and he proceeds to go into a whole line of dialog-i grew up in this neighborhood-yada, yada, yada....oh and btw their is a RSO in the neighborhood, it makes MY hinky meter go off and it NEVER makes me :floorlaugh:

 

[Prof]

I must have missed this. Has LE actually said that they have found evidence outside of the Celis home ? TIA

They find stuff and bag it and take it in, but that does not mean it is viable evidence toward the case.
They have taken in child sandals from a trash, socks and cigs from another locale, a blanket on the freeway, and lots of other things, but for testing, and investigating. It could all be unrelated IMO

 

[johnQpublic]

Okay so here is something else I found that was rather interesting yet I have not dug into that far( http://articles.latimes.com/1991-08-08/news/gl-165_1_six-foster-children ) in 1991 there was a cemetary worker who was murdered and there was a SC involved with that case. The guy who was murdered had between 6 to 14 foster kids, Is it possible since the Sergio in this case was such a suspect in this case yet aquitted of the charges... that maybe one of this guys foster kids went seeking revenge only to seek out the wrong Sergio ??? It's a long shot but stranger things have happened....

 

[buggsmom]

I think the neighbor saw him from the front, as he reported seeing him sitting on a utility box that is up against a fence in the alleyway. He spoke to the man. I suppose he could have told the officer that the logo was on the back of the shirt, but why not note that? and usually if you describe someone with a logo on a shirt, that logo is on the front IMO

JMO..neither the officer or the witness stated "front" or "back". I've designed many t-shirts with just a design/logo on the back and nothing on the front. Guess it's one of those things we can keep guessing about!

 

[PAXIMUS]

The right way to read documents like these are not to focus on what they do say but rather on what they dont say.

 

[Ladylub]

Call the Dealership ... I've seen the shirt's they wear.. and yes.. I called the dealership. The screen printing is on the rear of the shirts.

From day one of business has the logo been on the back of the shirt? It may be an old shirt. Did they say that was the only shirt made for their company? Meaning no promotional shirts ever made. My husband's job, their logos are on the back but they give out promotional shirts with logos on the front.

 

[Prof]

The reason that NMc stood out was not simply because he wanted to help. He was caught out searching on his own within an hour of being questioned by police at his home, without discussing his plan, when LE was swarming the neighborhood, and the neighborhood was taped off (AS had to get ask how she could get to work because of this) Also in reports there were things collected in the area he went to search immediately. Then his house was served a search warrant, and after it was served in another report it was questioned by NMc and AG. He's all over the police radar in these reports IMO. IMO that is why he's been discussed more closely since Sunday.

 

[johnQpublic]

The reason that NMc stood out was not simply because he wanted to help. He was caught out searching on his own within an hour of being questioned by police at his home.

From the way I read it, Nate was not even home durring the initial questioning, they spoke to his girlfriend.

 

[time]

The reason that NMc stood out was not simply because he wanted to help. He was caught out searching on his own within an hour of being questioned by police at his home, without discussing his plan, when LE was swarming the neighborhood, and the neighborhood was taped off (AS had to get ask how she could get to work because of this) Also in reports there were things collected in the area he went to search immediately. Then his house was served a search warrant, and after it was served in another report it was questioned by NMc and AG. He's all over the police radar in these reports IMO. IMO that is why he's been discussed more closely since Sunday.

Nice summary. I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to discuss him and I'm not buying that LE purposefully loaded up the docs towards him since there is a lot of other stuff in there.

It would certainly be interesting to hear what an FBI profile of the perp is.

 

[Prof]

Yes, I and other posters have noted that the doc dump would not yield evidence, nor would it reveal everything that LE has that points directly toward any person. I have noted a few times that what the docs do not include would be results of these reports.

Still we have learned things since the doc dump, and have had things to discuss to add to theories, and any theories based on some type of concrete report is more interesting to me than the alternatives IMO

For example, I would like to hear what others think of the request for surveillance video from the Walmart and Albertsons for Friday... I posted this a few pages ago, and I find it interesting. IMO the docs do provide some points for discussion.

I am fairly confident that most of us following this case all along do know that LE is not giving out any results of their investigation.

 

[time]

From the way I read it, NM (change) was not even home durring the initial questioning, they spoke to his girlfriend.

I read that somewhere also - and didn't they talk with her at 8:45 am?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So now "Dad" has to inform LE of all the RSO's in the area? I am pretty sure they are aware of this RSO. Besides, from "Dad's" own words he is a nice guy.
Playing and walking are two different things-imo.

When a person is asked who they think took their daughter, since that was HIS accusation-and he proceeds to go into a whole line of dialog-i grew up in this neighborhood-yada, yada, yada....oh and btw their is a RSO in the neighborhood, it makes MY hinky meter go off and it NEVER makes me :floorlaugh:

I dont know. I dont know how quickly they talked to Sergio and if they knew then that a RSO was down the block. Whether they knew it or not I would still tell them anyway.

I understand but for me I am a very detailed oriented person and I am guilty of not just answering 'yes or no' too.:floorlaugh:

I would be much more suspicious of Sergio if he didnt talk openly and just limited the interview to yes or no answers.

IMO

 

[time]

Yes, I and other posters have noted that the doc dump would not yield evidence, or everything that LE has that points directly toward any person. I have noted a few times that what the docs do not include would be results of these reports.

Still we have learned things since the doc dump, and have had things to discuss to add to theories, and any theories based on some type of concrete report is more interesting to me than the alternatives IMO

For example, I would like to hear what others think of the request for surveillance video from the Walmart and Albertsons for Friday... I posted this a few pages ago, and I find it interesting. IMO the docs do provide some points for discussion.

I am fairly confident that most of us following this case all along do know that LE is not giving out any results of their investigation.

I think it could be as you surmised .... the Celis' went to those stores. I think it could also be because they are trying to track something related to a vehicle or person and have some reason to believe those areas could be fruitful. I guess another possibility is that they found some thing, e.g., food wrapper, in some key location that could have come from either of those stores? Or they are checking to see if what someone told them is true, e.g., we stopped at Albertsons before going home? Just brain storming.

 

[johnQpublic]

It may also be interesting to note that over on Essex near Wilshire park, according to the CrimeMaps there seems to be a pattern of criminal behavior.. a death of unknown causes, assault with a deadly weapon, disturbances of the peace and domestic violence Oh.. and drug busts. Also just west of Essex on 14th there was some sort of child molestation... These things might not be in anyway related but thats a way uncool little area.
Then something else I found really interesting was not to long before this incident there was some sort of vandalisim on Cooper St. not to many yards away from the C's home.. That too maybe somewhat related but I doubt it.

 

[Prof]

I read that somewhere also - and didn't they talk with her at 8:45 am?

I have a report from an officer B who arrived at the scene around 9:30 am.
He was called in to transcribe what was going on and write a report.

At that time, the neighbors had all been interviewed, but it does not say what time. It is possible that another report exists, but I have not found it.
I have 10 reports where they are mentioned.

Here is the officer B report.

 

[Lark2]

Agree 100%. LE has essentially released what amounts to some soy filler in the big picture with just a few important details. They know there are enough pages and enough non-essential or not really connected to the case detail to keep the public engaged in the pile. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the public doesn't realize these documents are not the real meat of the case, and while people are focused on these piles of documents, it keeps the public out of LE's hair, so to speak. That allows LE to maintain the confidential, important, and salient info and preserves it for future possible litigation while everyone is busy dissecting a document dump.

Win/Win strategy and pretty smart of LE. LE's version of "ooohhh look..a sparkly birdie over there!"

<public runs over to look at sparkly birdie and gets distracted on the meaning of sparkly birdie>) IMO.

Madeline, I usually agree with your posts but I think this one just goes too far and also ignores certain behaviour on the part of TPD.

It is the TPD themselves who have sought to ENGAGE the public in this case, not distract it. Recall that it was the TPD who made the decision to have regular press conferences and to call out the parents to do media. And it has been the TPD who released the CPS info to the media, released the 911 calls, and alerted the media about the reanactment so that camera crews could record the family being brought back to the house. These were proactive decisions made by TPD to involve the public, not distract them.

IMO, the public doesn't need a sparkly little birdie to "distract" it and get it off TPD's backs - our media-saturated culture would have accomplished that all on its own. We move on to the next big story rather quickly, after all, and people aren't exactly standing outside of TPD's doors harrassing them for details about this case. Truth be told, I think public interest has already dwindled to a fraction of what it was.

I also don't believe these docs were released because of an FOIA request; rather, I think they were released as part of TPD's continuing strategy to ratchet up the pressure on the parents. Now we know that TPD has also looked at their extended family, and that there was apparent blood found in Isa's room.

The TPD is the source for all of the informaiton on this case that points to the family, and they continue to be the source.

 

[liz b.]

They find stuff and bag it and take it in, but that does not mean it is viable evidence toward the case.
They have taken in child sandals from a trash, socks and cigs from another locale, a blanket on the freeway, and lots of other things, but for testing, and investigating. It could all be unrelated IMO

In other cases I have followed,when anything related to the missing person is found, the information is often released to the media,to the public... So, I am guessing that there was no real "evidence ' in the sense that any items found belonged to,or were connected to, Isabel Celis... But,who knows, and JMO

 

[white rabbit]

1. I don't think we can be certain it was NMc. The same officer ran into this neighbor witness right after his run in with NMc, and he did not seem to make the correlation that I could see. He had said PLAIN white shirt, and the witness had stated "Car World"
2. not following lol sorry
3. The bad driving records added up as suspect in regards to RC and SC for some, why not for NMc? (Rhetorical question) BTW did you look in other states that he's associated with? IMO he's not the kickboxer, as that guy looked much younger.

Everyone is a viable POI in this case...IMO

lol i was pretty confusing...they found a bedskirt & twin bedset in the area he came from. bedskirts usually go between the mattress & box spring (maybe not in this case)...but it's creepy for sure that anyone would discard a bedset in such a way. why would the family not state on the 911 "she's gone and so are all her sheets & comforter"...they only 'noticed' the window being open/compromised...and since LE says they removed all the beddding from the house, including IC's, why would the family have re-made her bed if they found both her and her bedding missing? my point is the twin bedset they found as evidence wasn't hers.

re: his online presence, most of the stuff i found was years old...the kickboxing from 2008 and the marathon from 2004...so it is possibly him (looking younger goes along with exercise, sometimes)...i don't know what other states to look in...

i'm still trying, i agree he's a viable poi...

 

[time]

Per what was seized at NM house

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22884&d=1338397691

Anyone find it peculiar they took a photo of a yellow sleeveless shirt? Doesn't sound like a guys shirt.