NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[DrWatson]

Ha, Dr Watson, I thought your 'tagline' was someone replying to your post and disrespecting you!!!rofl. Glad you clarified as sure you wouldn't be putting yourself down. yes, it is 'all good'! Lol

Heheh - I just edited it to try and differentiate it a bit from the text above.

 

[Thinking]

I see we also get a mention by Greatestbloke Ever...funny.
He must be reading. :seeya::seeya::seeya:

Unless he turned GPS off. Even if he isn't smart enough to disable it so it doesn't track his movements, he may simply habitually turn it off as a battery saving measure.

There's also the possibility that he left his phone at home.

Yes from memory when you look at when the phone came on and off the charger, it appears he may have left the phone at home. Probably advice from a slightly smarter father. Although it would be interesting to see the pings from nbc's phone fom that night too.

 

[Dodo]

Heheh - I just edited it to try and differentiate it a bit from the text above.

Yes, adorable!!

 

[YoureNicked]

Yes from memory when you look at when the phone came on and off the charger, it appears he may have left the phone at home. Probably advice from a slightly smarter father. Although it would be interesting to see the pings from nbc's phone fom that night too.

I think if they were both in the disposal of the body together then NBC and GBC would have left both their phones home in order to be totally sure no electronic trace from the phones could have occurred. If I was in the body dumping business I wouldn't be taking a phone with me, that's for sure. I might not know about how else I could be traced otherwise but the phone would be an obvious thing not to take.

The leaving home of phones could also explain why NBC had to be out in the open at the bus-stop (rumoured)...so GBC could see him and pick him up. IF NBC was lurking in the shadows his son might have driven straight past and, without phones to communicate with there would have been more confusion. Something they would definitely not have wanted if they were up to no good.

MOO

 

[Sarn]

Hi all,

In regards to the suggestions that because Gerard had army reserve training that he was likely to have been taught arm to arm combat, based on my experience I believe this is unlikely.

I was on the army reserves around the same time Gerard was, I was an officer cadet, I Vaguely recall reading something that implied Gerard was also doing officer training. In my three years as an officer cadet I don't recall ever doing unarmed combat. The timeframe that we had to train was limited (1 Wednesday and one weekend a month) and 4, 2 week offsite modules a year.

In that time we had to learn all the theory (weapons theory, tactics, military law etc) as well as practical warfare and weapons skills. There was no time to learn other incidentally skills such as unarmed combat. You picked up role related, specialist skills after graduating and being posted to a unit. So for eg if you went to transport you would learn all transport related stuff you needed to know, if you were posted to an infantry unit then you would learn the specialised skills needed there, for example unarmed combat, urban warfare etc.

while officer cadets were trained within an infantry environment, their assessment and training focused in leadership skills, military tactics, basic infantry skills, and theoretical knowledge.

It's also important to note that the equipment reservists used dated back to the Vietnam war, ie SLRs, M60s, even our ration packs were 30 years old. It wasn't until the last 6 months of my training (in 95) that we started using styres and more modern equipment (note that equipment did not include night vision goggles or anything fancy). Nowadays the reserve training is a lot better in terms of the equipment used, but back in the early to mid 90s our equipment was severely out of date (mind you i Always preferred the slr over the styre, the styre feels like a toy in comparison.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Had you not told me that the post I quote was you, I would have been none the wiser.



We do..? :waitasec: Obviously someone we used to work with. They're not on our mutual friends on FB. I obviously not added them yet. Hmm, going to go through your friends list now to see who I know, but haven't added. Lol!

ETA... Were they on the pub crawl??

LOL. MK is one,has friends of friends.

Yeah I was going to explain how you found me but nah too complicated to explain : )

Sorry guys. Just showing we hide nothing....LOL

 

[Fuskier]

Further on the text messages, based on his narcissistic tendencies, what's the bet earlier text messages were blunt and rude? Allison was one of the people holding him accountable for his behaviour and making him admit details of his affair/s. he would have hated that. I'll bet most of his messages to her would be more like "TOLD YOU already you need to be home for kids" or "where are you thought you said honesty was important???" or "said I was sorry already come home, yr being stupid"

I think these reported obvious text messages indicating a calm and caring hubby, will be yet another example of uncharacteristic behaviour helping the police build the case further. Can't go to jail for sending unusual text messages, but as part of a raft of other weirdness, these certainly won't save him, if that's what our neighbourhood genius thought they'd do.

JMO.

:goodpost:

 

[Fuskier]

If, and only if, the accused in this matter intentionally killed his wife it would make sense to inform the DPP ASAP that he intends to plead guilty IMO. The stress imposed on family and friends by years of legal proceedings would be prevented. Loved ones may be able to avoid contempt or perjury charges and prison from a misplaced sense of duty. He may be able to avoid an extra 5yrs prison if he is then sentenced soon. He would only be in his mid fifties when paroled and his kids would still be young women and there could at least be a chance for some healing if not forgiveness. He could forget about clutching at straws for an acquittal and focus on his own rehabilitation right now, starting with an honest understanding of what happened and why. A long jail term doesn't need to be a death sentence. He could be a different human being when released if he commits to change. There are some amazing people in corrections who could help him to still lead a life that would have some meaning and purpose.

This is a good, constructive post.:goodpost:

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

I would love to read the transcript of the interview QPS did with his Financial Adviser. It would tell a sad story, i'll wager. In fact, as I was out for my morning walk, I wondered if it may have been advice from this person about his current state and the consequences of not meeting June 30 deadline that resulted in the alleged murder. In my view, it is more likely to be the case than an ultimatum, perceived or real, from TM.

I imagine that when the Financial Adviser is known (as we go through court proceedings) that her career will suffer greatly. Advice? The only "advice" she could have given is to declare bankruptcy.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Just as a point of difference, my wife and I have a pet hate in common, and that is people who do NOT sign their texts. We get several texts from people who are either not in our address book, or who have changed their phone plan/SIM (one in particular - I think she only ever uses pre-paid SIMS that she then throws away - new number every couple of weeks). So their name does NOT come up on the screen - just the number that we don't recognize.

So, as it has become a bit of a "thing", we almost always sign our texts to each other "Love X" and a couple of those iPhone Imoji emoticons. When I send one to her, I always use the one that is a lady's shoe, followed by a rose, a kiss, and a thumbs-up...!

Yeah, I know we're weird that way. :rocker: It's become something of a standing joke.

PS: hope my new signature tag doesn't offend anyone...

Watson, your wife is ONE LUCKY LADY!!! But I'm sure you are also one lucky man - you both chose well, or you were lucky enough to meet your soul mate. Many go through life never finding it. The affection between you is wonderful!!!

Love your signature!

 

[Fuskier]

I would love to read the transcript of the interview QPS did with his Financial Adviser. It would tell a sad story, i'll wager. In fact, as I was out for my morning walk, I wondered if it may have been advice from this person about his current state and the consequences of not meeting June 30 deadline that resulted in the alleged murder. In my view, it is more likely to be the case than an ultimatum, perceived or real, from TM.

I imagine that when the Financial Adviser is known (as we go through court proceedings) that her career will suffer greatly. Advice? The only "advice" she could have given is to declare bankruptcy.

Agree, QPolice would need to establish what advice from the Financial Advisor about the June 30th deadline was given to GBC.

 

[Greg]

Morning all

Just to reiterate a post from late last night, and to see if I can put it in a better way, more logical:

All the speculation about cause of death, including everything from plastic bags to carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of insulin or whatever, etc is all good conjecture, but I think it boils down to two possible scenarios:

1. The murder was pre-meditated, and planned, in which case ANY method could have been used, no matter how complicated it may appear to be. This could include steps taken to cover up the crime and hide the method used.

2. The murder was a "heat of the moment" thing. In this situation, what we normally see is something that is very quick and very final as the cause of death, eg stabbing, a blow, a gunshot, etc etc - the type of thing from which there is no pulling back. Once done, in a split second, it is done.

With the No 2 scenario, the slower methods, such as suffocation, strangling, head in the bath, etc in MOST cases (not necessarily all) would be aborted as the victim fought, and the realization of what one was doing dawned. It takes a very prolonged "brain snap" to continue with something that takes a significant amount of time, if the victim is fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc.



Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

Except that there appears to be evidence of the victim fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc...... Which would make one think that the act of murder was possibly much longer than the ....'WHACK.......Oops what did I do' scenario

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

If, and only if, the accused in this matter intentionally killed his wife it would make sense to inform the DPP ASAP that he intends to plead guilty IMO. The stress imposed on family and friends by years of legal proceedings would be prevented. Loved ones may be able to avoid contempt or perjury charges and prison from a misplaced sense of duty. He may be able to avoid an extra 5yrs prison if he is then sentenced soon. He would only be in his mid fifties when paroled and his kids would still be young women and there could at least be a chance for some healing if not forgiveness. He could forget about clutching at straws for an acquittal and focus on his own rehabilitation right now, starting with an honest understanding of what happened and why. A long jail term doesn't need to be a death sentence. He could be a different human being when released if he commits to change. There are some amazing people in corrections who could help him to still lead a life that would have some meaning and purpose.

This is the first time I've wished that some of his family were looking at this site, just so that they can read this post. The wisdom is obvious when you see it in Hawkins clear and warm style. He even ends with hope - a rainbow over the whole situation. Maybe if someone could have shown GBC the rainbow over his financials this may not have happened.

 

[Elspeth]

Except that there appears to be evidence of the victim fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc...... Which would make one think that the act of murder was possibly much longer than the ....'WHACK.......Oops what did I do' scenario

Greg wouldn't the children have heard if it lasted a long time ? Perhaps they may have heard something?...

 

[Fuskier]

But we don't know what type of qualifications this marriage councellor has. It could be a Psychologist?

Even if a psychologist, if the area of expertise is Accredited 'relationship counselling', then the 'focus' is the relating between the 'couple', their transition from single to becoming a family, their transition to parenthood, dealing with In-Laws, values about child rearing practices, expectations of marriage, adjustment to stages of life and so on. It looks at how the 'couple' negotiate the various stresses and frustrations at home, work and life in general. Some relationships can grow, some get stuck, some come to an end. Very complex area in itself. The focus is not individual assessment for personality disorder or diagnosis of mental illness. If one suspects that a diagnosis is required, then one needs to refer out to other expertise for individual assessment etc. Given this, the 'safety' of spouses is crucial, as sometimes, Intervention Orders are already in place by the time the couple access Counselling. In Accredited Relationship Counselling, the Counsellor usually makes an assessment as to the 'safety' of any partner in a DV situation and intervenes accordingly. If an IVO is in place, then this is taken into account in determining the Counselling approach. If this has been concealed from the Counsellor, then any assessment would not be accurate. Depending upon what type of marriage counselling was accessed, sometimes it is privileged information, even in a Court of Law. May be, in this case given one of the partner's was murdered, we could say that her 'safety' was in jeopardy and the files may need to be supoenaed? I hope that this is helpful.

 

[appleblossom]

I'm would love to hear the 000 call....

(in a Frank Spencer voice) "My wife went for a walk and never came back and i've sent two very nice text and i'm just a little bit worried"

 

[mouse detective]

:goodpost:

Very good analysis. Thank you. I have always thought the no. 2 scenario was more likely, however his enquiries about life insurance now place me in a confused state.

CasedClosed - I am with you I originally gave GBC the benefit of the doubt on all levels. However with the alleged insurance enquiries and Google searches about "taking the fifth" happening just prior, I tend to think that things were getting more and more heated between them and he had been seriously contemplating how to get rid of her and his debt at the same time. Hence a degree of pre-meditation but I am not sure he had clearly thought everything through before he went ahead.

 

[appleblossom]

Nigel Baden Clay's description on 'Meet the Team' page on the C21 Website

Nigel Baden-Clay
Senior Property Consultant and Real Estate Expert, Qualified Real Estate Sales Person, Community Development Educator in Rhodesia. Avid Big Game Hunter and Conservationist. Marriage enhancement facilitator. Financial Planner. Father of three and Grandfather of six.

Hopefully the marriage 'counselling' wasn't performed by Nigel... or the financial planning.... or the hunting...

 

[Elspeth]

I would love to read the transcript of the interview QPS did with his Financial Adviser. It would tell a sad story, i'll wager. In fact, as I was out for my morning walk, I wondered if it may have been advice from this person about his current state and the consequences of not meeting June 30 deadline that resulted in the alleged murder. In my view, it is more likely to be the case than an ultimatum, perceived or real, from TM.

I imagine that when the Financial Adviser is known (as we go through court proceedings) that her career will suffer greatly. Advice? The only "advice" she could have given is to declare bankruptcy.

Perhaps his Financial Adviser did suggest to him to declare bankruptcy...

It could have been a reason why he looked up the fifth amendment. This terminology is used in bankruptcy proceedings eg 'Pleading the fifth amendment provides the privilege against self-incrimination in bankruptcy proceedings'. moo

 

[appleblossom]

TM's description

Toni McHugh BVA, GradDipEd
Property Consultant and Real Estate Expert, Qualified Real Estate Sales Person

Educated at Sydney University, Toni worked for several years as an art teacher in the arts-rich Blue Mountains area outside Sydney. Moving to Queensland four years ago, she quickly won a role in property management and three years later caught the attention of Century 21 Westside principal Gerard Baden-Clay, who at the time presided over the sale of Toni’s block of land at Pullenvale.

“I wouldn’t have worked for just anyone,” Toni says. “Century 21 Westside were ethically strong, results-driven and very much team players. I bring to this position empathy, understanding, a talent for solving problems and, above all, a true love of property.”