NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

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That article made me wonder a few things. They did mention GBC and the iphone and how it was able to tell when it was on the charger or not and about the facetime call.. I am wondering if that whole article was in a way relating to the case, but as yet its information they can not publish..so they did it in a way as to appear a general interest story.(?) MOO
I found it interesting it mentioned about how photos on the phone can be digitally encrypted to tell where the photo was taken..hmm..wonder if Allisons phone had some of this kind of data they are after and why they were so desperate to find it. as I know phone records and txt records could be found out from the telco..so it was something other than that I think..possibly even fingerprints??
http://couriermail.com.au/news/technology/big-brother-is-watching/story-fn5tim7x-1226412753683

I think the Police would have gained a lot more info from GBC iPhone than has been declared so far. They are still trying to ascertain the degree to which others are involved and possibly give them a chance to request immunity in exchange for more information.

As careful as GBC may have been, did NBC turn off location services that night? The evidence of the FaceTime call may have come from the examination of NBC's phone!!

Despite what other's here have said, I firmly believe that NBC and poss EBC have been dragged into this whole darned mess unwittingly and now they don't know how to get out of it, without incriminating their son. If true, this would be such an awful dilemma for them to be in. JMO
 
Morning all :)

Just to reiterate a post from late last night, and to see if I can put it in a better way, more logical:

All the speculation about cause of death, including everything from plastic bags to carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of insulin or whatever, etc is all good conjecture, but I think it boils down to two possible scenarios:

1. The murder was pre-meditated, and planned, in which case ANY method could have been used, no matter how complicated it may appear to be. This could include steps taken to cover up the crime and hide the method used.

2. The murder was a "heat of the moment" thing. In this situation, what we normally see is something that is very quick and very final as the cause of death, eg stabbing, a blow, a gunshot, etc etc - the type of thing from which there is no pulling back. Once done, in a split second, it is done.

With the No 2 scenario, the slower methods, such as suffocation, strangling, head in the bath, etc in MOST cases (not necessarily all) would be aborted as the victim fought, and the realization of what one was doing dawned. It takes a very prolonged "brain snap" to continue with something that takes a significant amount of time, if the victim is fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc.

Having been involved in several murder cases over the years, these heat of the moment ones have almost always been the blow to the head, (maybe from a push, may from a fist or blunt instrument), a stabbing, or a shot. So quick that it is impossible to abort the action. It's only when it's done that realization dawns, and usually the perpetrator is then in varying degrees of panic as to what to do next.

So, the autopsy and the prosecution releasing the cause of death will tell us a lot. if the method used was one of the slower methods, including drowning in the bath, plastic bag over the head, or whatever, we could reasonably assume that it was a carefully premeditated action. Which, in turn, would imply that the subsequent actions to dispose of the body and clean the murder site would have already been thought of.

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

Dr Watson, my only thought with that is.. to me IF GBC is guilty..he has shown some degree of planning with this. Maybe not the when and how..but even in the aftermath. The Text messages on the Friday morning to Allison, to me seems calculating, not a person in a state of panic. Also the phone calls or email to TM to say he had to lay low..no remorse? More a hope he was getting away with things and all was as planned.
I thought also at first it may have been a heat of the moment thing and maybe the actual event was..but I think there may be some degree of premeditation here and seemingly very cold and callous..JMO
 
A thought and a personal story.

Did Allison have acrylic/gel nails?

Quite a few years ago i was sitting in bed and my 'partner' at the time came in the room. We argued about him being out with other women and his lies surrounding this and he became violent and started to choke me, pushing me back onto the bed. It wasn't intended to kill me but to 'shut' me up in the heat of the moment. I scratched at him to get him off me and scratched his face and his several areas on his chest and upper arms straight through the t-shirt he was wearing. I also managed to tear the shirt a little. I had acrylic nails at the time.

The choking caused blood to flow freely from both my nostrils and blood went all over the bed and that is when he let go... The next day I didn't really have any marks on the skin on my throat. But he had large scratches on his chest and face.

I wonder if, for poor Allison a similar thing happened but with the life insurance prize, he didn't stop choking, he continued until she was dead.

Thanks for sharing your story Appleblossom. I'm so glad you got out and you're still here with us.

You know I was thinking about something similar last night. I was raised "old school" and if we complained to our mother about our partners she would say "That's just the way it is, you just put up with it!" In some cases, it did involve violence. I suddenly realise how dangerous that information could turn out to be. Now I understand why so many are told to get out of there and don't even try to work things out.
 
I think the Police would have gained a lot more info from GBC iPhone than has been declared so far. They are still trying to ascertain the degree to which others are involved and possibly give them a chance to request immunity in exchange for more information.

As careful as GBC may have been, did NBC turn off location services that night? The evidence of the FaceTime call may have come from the examination of NBC's phone!!

Despite what other's here have said, I firmly believe that NBC and poss EBC have been dragged into this whole darned mess unwittingly and now they don't know how to get out of it, without incriminating their son. If true, this would be such an awful dilemma for them to be in. JMO

I agree, I think they have more information from the phone and I think GBC was probably never banking on his phone being seized and forensically examined..

As for the family.. my mind is open there..I will wait for it to play out but I do have my suspicions on involvement at least by one member..we will see.. And I would not be surprised if it was known about, not being dragged in at the loast minute..But I could be wrong there..

MOO

P.S. Mouse detective, I love your new avatar.:)
 
I agree, I think they have more information from the phone and I think GBC was probably never banking on his phone being seized and forensically examined..

As for the family.. my mind is open there..I will wait for it to play out but I do have my suscpicions on involvement at least by one member..we will see.. And I would not be surprised if it was known about, not being dragged in at the loast minute..But I could be wrong there..

MOO

P.S. Mouse detective, I love your new avatar.:)

Thank you UT!!

BTW I just saw this iPhone message mock up on Aus Crim site - it really cracked me up

http://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ssl977ai.jpg
 
As early as in the beginning of April GBC declared to TM quite confidently that he would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012." To me, that sounds like a plan.

GBC is in the game of making confident assertions. e.g. This is he perfect house for you..., or The house has been discounted for the, lets be honest, dated decoration, which is great plus as you will be able to paint the house as you want in effect using the sellers money!

So saying that he was going to sort our his financial situation appears to me to be just more blather that anyone proposing to leave his wife would say. Cant leave just yet because of finances. And in July hed say cant leave yet, soliitors have found an issue. and in September... etc.
 
Morning all :)

Just to reiterate a post from late last night, and to see if I can put it in a better way, more logical:

All the speculation about cause of death, including everything from plastic bags to carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of insulin or whatever, etc is all good conjecture, but I think it boils down to two possible scenarios:

1. The murder was pre-meditated, and planned, in which case ANY method could have been used, no matter how complicated it may appear to be. This could include steps taken to cover up the crime and hide the method used.

2. The murder was a "heat of the moment" thing. In this situation, what we normally see is something that is very quick and very final as the cause of death, eg stabbing, a blow, a gunshot, etc etc - the type of thing from which there is no pulling back. Once done, in a split second, it is done.

With the No 2 scenario, the slower methods, such as suffocation, strangling, head in the bath, etc in MOST cases (not necessarily all) would be aborted as the victim fought, and the realization of what one was doing dawned. It takes a very prolonged "brain snap" to continue with something that takes a significant amount of time, if the victim is fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc.

Having been involved in several murder cases over the years, these heat of the moment ones have almost always been the blow to the head, (maybe from a push, may from a fist or blunt instrument), a stabbing, or a shot. So quick that it is impossible to abort the action. It's only when it's done that realization dawns, and usually the perpetrator is then in varying degrees of panic as to what to do next.

So, the autopsy and the prosecution releasing the cause of death will tell us a lot. if the method used was one of the slower methods, including drowning in the bath, plastic bag over the head, or whatever, we could reasonably assume that it was a carefully premeditated action. Which, in turn, would imply that the subsequent actions to dispose of the body and clean the murder site would have already been thought of.

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

With no external injuries a knock on the head as the COD in scenario 1 is really the only thing that fits what we have been told so far. in saying that it looks very premeditated and I cannot see someone scratching a person as they fall to hit their head. Even though a lot of stupidity in the committing of this crime, is evident what we have been told so far, I still strongly believe it to be something from scenario 2......
 
To friends or acquaintances I sign with my Initial, to a partner I would sign "Love u *advertiser censored*", to others is my full first name. Everybody is different.

yep I always sign mine with my name or initial. I know many people don't though. Maybe its part of being brought up before texts and all that, lol.. to me its kind of rude not to..just me.
 
yep I always sign mine with my name or initial. I know many people don't though. Maybe its part of being brought up before texts and all that, lol.. to me its kind of rude not to..just me.

I sign with my name if to someone I'm not always texting or if I don't know if they have my number - but family and friends there is no need as it comes up with my name and in the case of those with iphones as a conversation :)
 
With no external injuries a knock on the head as the COD in scenario 1 is really the only thing that fits what we have been told so far. in saying that it looks very premeditated and I cannot see someone scratching a person as they fall to hit their head. Even though a lot of stupidity in the committing of this crime, is evident what we have been told so far, I still strongly believe it to be something from scenario 2......

so ... maybe a blow to the head or a big shove backwards after a bit of a scratching hair pulling fight ??
 
UT now that you've mentioned that and fingerprints. Didn't we hear that there were gloves found at Kholo? What a big mistake that would be, they can take prints from the inside of the gloves if that were true.

After I read your post I had to go find the report which mentioned the gloves found at Kholo...interesting the way it's written...

May 02, 2012 5:37AM

Yesterday, police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found. But they said this afternoon that the SIM card was not related to the case

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...y-was-discovered/story-e6freon6-1226344523575

The SIM card was not related to the case...but not a mention of whether or not the gloves were related...hmmm...I'll keep looking to see if there were any further/later reports re the gloves.
 
I bet there is an article in news tomorrow, Sunday Mail prob, that covers 'Life in Remand (or Medical Unit) Centre'.

End of another week and may be assessed to move to cell now etc.

Also what the movements of OW are now whether back to her home etc...

TM might have house for sale to move away...

Hope Madonna King writes another article too...

Wait and see as I know nuttin'........
 
I sign with my name if to someone I'm not always texting or if I don't know if they have my number - but family and friends there is no need as it comes up with my name and in the case of those with iphones as a conversation :)

After I read your post I had to go find the report which mentioned the gloves found at Kholo...interesting the way it's written...

May 02, 2012 5:37AM

Yesterday, police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found. But they said this afternoon that the SIM card was not related to the case

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...y-was-discovered/story-e6freon6-1226344523575

The SIM card was not related to the case...but not a mention of whether or not the gloves were related...hmmm...I'll keep looking to see if there were any further/later reports re the gloves.

Yes, iphone to iphone tells you who message is from, and it's continuous with last msg. from that location. None of my family bother with signing off.. it's more like: and milk pls, thnx. I guess it's a personal thing...

I've been thinking about the gloves and this quote all along it seemed strange to me. I don't recall there being any other mention of gloves at all, ( besides the Van Guy)
 
After I read your post I had to go find the report which mentioned the gloves found at Kholo...interesting the way it's written...

May 02, 2012 5:37AM

Yesterday, police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found. But they said this afternoon that the SIM card was not related to the case

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...y-was-discovered/story-e6freon6-1226344523575

The SIM card was not related to the case...but not a mention of whether or not the gloves were related...hmmm...I'll keep looking to see if there were any further/later reports re the gloves.

If not the gloves, then i'm thinking there will be something that ties him to the scene, belt, shirt, something that shouldn't be there if Allison had just gone for a walk. Maybe the clue is in the "personal items" that were found that wouldn't be taken with you if you were just going walking.
 
I've been thinking about the gloves and this quote all along it seemed strange to me. I don't recall there being any other mention of gloves at all, ( besides the Van Guy)

maybe QPS are keeping it 'up their sleeve'
 
This report states a drink bottle was also found...

May 2, 2012

Police had searched an area within a 500m radius from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found, he said, and had recovered items including a SIM card, gloves and a drink bottle.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-badenclay-20120501-1xwsw.html#ixzz1zGNi9dVK

A drink bottle, I think, would be something quite commonly found dumped in any area...but a "pair" of gloves?!?!?!
 
GBC is in the game of making confident assertions. e.g. This is he perfect house for you..., or The house has been discounted for the, lets be honest, dated decoration, which is great plus as you will be able to paint the house as you want in effect using the sellers money!

So saying that he was going to sort our his financial situation appears to me to be just more blather that anyone proposing to leave his wife would say. Cant leave just yet because of finances. And in July hed say cant leave yet, soliitors have found an issue. and in September... etc.

Sure, he could be that theatrical with women or estate buyers, and they could suscept to his performance. But his creditors, especially banks, are not likely to be that impressionnable. It would be interesting to find out if GBC was getting letters or calls from his creditors in February-March just to understand how tense the situation was for him. I remember I was away once and missed a car loan payment, for which I still had 14 days time to catch up to avoid a late fee, and they called me in 3 days to check what's going on and remind me of the late fee. For havens sake... And that was over some 500 bucks. Here we have a million dollar debt and what? Silence? I find it hard to believe. JMO.
 
If not the gloves, then i'm thinking there will be something that ties him to the scene, belt, shirt, something that shouldn't be there if Allison had just gone for a walk. Maybe the clue is in the "personal items" that were found that wouldn't be taken with you if you were just going walking.

Yes there was also those "personal items" which we've not heard a word about since...although I think they were found in the original search area for a missing Allison??...GBC was asked to go look at them at police station to confirm if they belonged to Allison or not??
 
This report states a drink bottle was also found...

May 2, 2012

Police had searched an area within a 500m radius from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found, he said, and had recovered items including a SIM card, gloves and a drink bottle.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-badenclay-20120501-1xwsw.html#ixzz1zGNi9dVK

A drink bottle, I think, would be something quite commonly found dumped in any area...but a "pair" of gloves?!?!?!

If Allison were going for a walk, a drink bottle wouldn't be out of place at the scene. The SIM was ruled out but the gloves definitely stand out IMO.
 
Sure, he could be that theatrical with women or estate buyers, and they could suscept to his performance. But his creditors, especially banks, are not likely to be that impressionnable. It would be interesting to find out if GBC was getting letters or calls from his creditors in February-March just to understand how tense the situation was for him. I remember I was away once and missed a car loan payment, for which I still had 14 days time to catch up to avoid a late fee, and they called me in 3 days to check what's going on and remind me of the late fee. For havens sake... And that was over some 500 bucks. Here we have a million dollar debt and what? Silence? I find it hard to believe. JMO.

Mmm they don't let you off without a payment arrangement of some sort and at least you giving them a firm date you will be paying and how much.
 
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