NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[ozazure]

Hmm, I wonder where the lawyers think the money is going to come from? I am sure they don't rely on "gentleman's agreements" while the hours clock up. I agree this is probably a "changing of the guard" and maybe his current representation isn't confident about being paid or loving on GBC personally.

 

[dork_whisperer]

:rolling:.. I really am wondering where on earth the moneys coming from or who on earth is paying for this legal who's who.

Annoyingly, us! For sure his legal team have already applied for a Legal Aid grant.

GBC has already blown through the cash of everyone he knows.

 

[elmo343]

Okay, I'm not familiar with facetime. I thought it worked the same as a regular video chat. Another thing I wanted to mention though on the topic of the possible Stilnox defence in this case. In order for gbc to use this defence he would first need to admit possible guilt to the charges first would he not? Can't say you were on Stilnox at the time if you are saying you didn't do it in the first place.

 

[kalamityk]

Annoyingly, us! For sure his legal team have already applied for a Legal Aid grant.

GBC has already blown through the cash of everyone he knows.

from the legal aid Queensland site
http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/legalinformation/FAQs/Pages/Whocangetlegalaid.aspx
Representation with a grant of legal aid

Legal representation is available if you get a grant of legal aid. To get a grant of legal aid you must:
be financially eligible under our means test
have a case which comes within the guidelines set by government
have reasonable prospects of succeeding in the legal action.

 

[LightningJack]

Both Isabellnecessary and DrWatson make some very valid points regarding supposed guilt. Most people make the mistake of looking at "evidence" with a view to finding guilt, but very seldom with a view to finding innocence. Thats only "half sleuthing".

I'm going to begin by analysing one of the core pieces of "evidence", popularly discribed as "dire financial circumstances" with debts supposedly totalling around 1 million dollars. These have been outline by various news outlets, I will use those outlined here:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/gerard-baden-clay-conducting-ongoing-affair-at-time-of-wife-allisons-death-was-in-debt-and-had-inquired-about-her-life-insurance-police-affidavits-lodged-in-court-claim/story-e6frf7l6-1226406037780

1. $275,000 was owed to friends in "gentlemen's agreements.

Assuming that these are as described, gentlemen's agreements, there would be no pressure on the defendant in regard to repayment.

2. $200,000 to a former business partner.

This also most likely falls into a similar category as the above.

3. $335,000 as guarantor on a mortgage.

This is not a debt at all. Its only a guarantee on a mortgage and should there be a default, the property would normally be sold and nobody is out of pocket. The guarantor may lose some money, but rarely all. Again, it is not a debt at all and is there solely to inflate the figures.

4. $45,000 on a credit card.

This is a very small amount of credit for a top real estate business. A pittance.

5. $75,000 to the CEO of Century 21.

Another very small business debt. I once worked for an enterprise much smaller thatn Century 21 who were regularly in debt to the tune of $500,000+. Another pittance for a business like Century 21.

6. $58,000 to his parents.

I doubt very much that there would be any pressure at all for repayment of this debt.

So what do we get from the above? $120,000 of real debt that may have some kind of pressure for repayment. This is a very small amount for any medium sized business.

The "dire financial circumstances" are nothing other than a huge beat up by the QPS to help secure a refusal of bail for GBC. Not unusual, police are like that.

There are some here who seem to thing that the police "only do the right thing". All I can say is: Please wake up to the real world. The police are like a dog on a bone. Once they get a grip they are very one eyed and will do anything they can imagine to get their way. Thats how they really are.

Even one million dollars of real debt is not unusual for a medium sized business and cannot be described as it has been.

 

[elmo343]

I personally think that if this crime was premeditated, that it was not planned very thoroughly, which leads me to believe that nbc only found out about it after the fact via the facetime call and then went to the aide of his son to try to cover up the mess. So the scenarios of nbc waiting out in the streets for the call seem unlikely. IMO

 

[LauraMars]

I'm very confident that the police have their main man, but maybe there will be others to follow.

I have a friend who works for the police (yeah I know, anyone can say that) and while she did not speak of anything before the arrest, the day he was arrested she told me they'd known it was him from day one.

While the arrest seemed a long time coming for many, really in the big picture, I think 2 months is a relatively short time. I doubt they would have nailed him so soon if they'd not been sure they could get a conviction.

One thing that did surprise me was the time it took for them to get the details of the face-time call. I realise that it could take ages for various forensic results to come back, but I would have thought such things as the phone details would have come back sooner.

 

[Fuskier]

Very very unusual to have three separate law firms representing you for the same matter?? And very very expensive too!!! Most top barristers would require a hefty deposit in their trust account before proceeding further too, where oh where is all the loot coming from to pay for this??? This case gets stranger and stranger!

Could it be the money raised from OW's email call for family & friends to donate? In MSM in was stated that they had $500,000 for Bail surety didn't they? Maybe some of this has been deposited in the legal eagles Law firm accounts.They would require a sufficient deposit to secure their services - unless they were acting 'pro bono'.

 

[kalamityk]

Could it be the money raised from OW's email call for family & friends to donate? In MSM in was stated that they had $500,000 for Bail surety didn't they? Maybe some of this has been deposited in the legal eagles Law firm accounts.They would require a sufficient deposit to secure their services - unless they were acting 'pro bono'.

They would be keeping the bail surety in case they get another chance at bail (I think) - maybe what is behind the change of lawyers :twocents:

 

[Wozzle]

Both Isabellnecessary and DrWatson make some very valid points regarding supposed guilt. Most people make the mistake of looking at "evidence" with a view to finding guilt, but very seldom with a view to finding innocence. Thats only "half sleuthing".

I'm going to begin by analysing one of the core pieces of "evidence", popularly discribed as "dire financial circumstances" with debts supposedly totalling around 1 million dollars. These have been outline by various news outlets, I will use those outlined here:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/gerard-baden-clay-conducting-ongoing-affair-at-time-of-wife-allisons-death-was-in-debt-and-had-inquired-about-her-life-insurance-police-affidavits-lodged-in-court-claim/story-e6frf7l6-1226406037780

1. $275,000 was owed to friends in "gentlemen's agreements.

Assuming that these are as described, gentlemen's agreements, there would be no pressure on the defendant in regard to repayment.

2. $200,000 to a former business partner.

This also most likely falls into a similar category as the above.

3. $335,000 as guarantor on a mortgage.

This is not a debt at all. Its only a guarantee on a mortgage and should there be a default, the property would normally be sold and nobody is out of pocket. The guarantor may lose some money, but rarely all. Again, it is not a debt at all and is there solely to inflate the figures.

4. $45,000 on a credit card.

This is a very small amount of credit for a top real estate business. A pittance.

5. $75,000 to the CEO of Century 21.

Another very small business debt. I once worked for an enterprise much smaller thatn Century 21 who were regularly in debt to the tune of $500,000+. Another pittance for a business like Century 21.

6. $58,000 to his parents.

I doubt very much that there would be any pressure at all for repayment of this debt.

So what do we get from the above? $120,000 of real debt that may have some kind of pressure for repayment. This is a very small amount for any medium sized business.

The "dire financial circumstances" are nothing other than a huge beat up by the QPS to help secure a refusal of bail for GBC. Not unusual, police are like that.

There are some here who seem to thing that the police "only do the right thing". All I can say is: Please wake up to the real world. The police are like a dog on a bone. Once they get a grip they are very one eyed and will do anything they can imagine to get their way. Thats how they really are.

Even one million dollars of real debt is not unusual for a medium sized business and cannot be described as it has been.

It has been reported in MSM that two of GBC's loans were due and payable on 30 June 2012. I believe these were amounts of $200,000 to Jocelyn Frost and $90,000 to Ben B. - both of these people were former business partners in C21 who left last year. I don't think we can assume that there was no pressure from those who provided GBC with money via a 'gentleman's agreement'...but conversely as you say perhaps there wasn't! However if any of this money came from TM, then of course there was 'pressure'.....GBC put this pressure on himself by giving her a deadline of 1 July to 'be with her'. Maybe it's a 'beat up' by the QPS, but facts are facts!

 

[Fuskier]

Might be like the three little pigs when they see Big Bad Wolf Superintendent Ainsworth coming. Not sure which one is building the brick house at the end, but it better be good, 'cos I smell pork chops in this fairy tale ending.

Chris Nyst might be involved out of sheer curiosity, although of course he'll do his legal best to defend his third of the client - wonder which one-third he got? Can't imagine which part of his client is the least sought, but if I was him i'd request the brains end, seems to have had less use than lower regions. It is heartening that some of Nyst's deserving past clients the Lacey's (from a family who thought they were above the law) ended up exactly where they belonged, terrified for their life in general population with real hard cases.

Unfortunately my local mention of GBC going into general population was confused, seems as latest Courier Mail mentioned he's out of medical unit and into a 'protected cell'. At least it's the real deal. Maybe he'll be allowed a little mingling ... Would be great to think they will give GBC an opportunity to meet others.

KEYBOREDOM: The metaphors in your post are clever ... :floorlaugh:

 

[LauraMars]

So the barrister Peter Davis hasn't had a recent mention. I wonder if he told Gerard where to shove it after the bail hearing?

 

[Wozzle]

1 degree above zero here. Still warmer than GBC's heart IMO

:floorlaugh: Yes, but he obviously has 'warm hands' to go with that cold heart....as he's managed to get them into all sorts of places he shouldn't!

<modsnip>

 

[appleblossom]

Chris Nyst is a not only a lawyer.... he is an author and filmmaker

This case has captured the interest of so many people.
There will be many books written and a movie made about this whole saga.
Look at all the websleuths who can't tear themselves away from here (including me), facebook, and other crime sites going nuts wondering how this tale will turn out.

Chris Nyst has seen an opportunity to make money. He is probably defending GBC for no fees but wants the exclusive rights to a book and a film in return.

 

[Fuskier]

Both Isabellnecessary and DrWatson make some very valid points regarding supposed guilt. Most people make the mistake of looking at "evidence" with a view to finding guilt, but very seldom with a view to finding innocence. Thats only "half sleuthing"...

...The "dire financial circumstances" are nothing other than a huge beat up by the QPS to help secure a refusal of bail for GBC. Not unusual, police are like that.

There are some here who seem to thing that the police "only do the right thing". All I can say is: Please wake up to the real world. The police are like a dog on a bone. Once they get a grip they are very one eyed and will do anything they can imagine to get their way. Thats how they really are...

LIGHTENINGJACK: This is your opinion only, equal and no less than any other opinion on here. However, I note that you left out the deadline date for repayment of 30 June 2012 and that you were quick to discount pressure for repayment. IMO A Police force has a vital social order function in any State or Country. They are there to serve and protect and maintain social order. It is the place of the QPolice to conduct a murder investigation. They have 'expertise' within their ranks to forensically analyse most aspects of 'evidence' before them. If not, they utilise forensic experts in a given area i.e. pathology, technology, etc. They cross reference/check the 'evidence', then charge an alleged murderer - all within The Law.
It is then the place of our Criminal Courts of Law to test that evidence. IMO that is the process we have in this State. That is what we have to go on.
We support our QPolice in the belief that they have conducted a thorough investigation and done their work. It is now up to the Courts to test the evidence. MOO.

 

[appleblossom]

Dear Isabell,

There was once a 'durty' poster on a wall in a joke shop in the city - it was of a pile of animal dung covered in blowflies and it read....... "Ten million blowflies can't be wrong about sh_t"!!! :floorlaugh:

:rolling:

I just laughed so hard I think I pee'd myself a little bit!!

 

[grannie]

Does Gerry really hope that quantity turns into quality?

 

[Elspeth]

Chris Nyst is a not only a lawyer.... he is an author and filmmaker

This case has captured the interest of so many people.
There will be many books written and a movie made about this whole saga.
Look at all the websleuths who can't tear themselves away from here (including me), facebook, and other crime sites going nuts wondering how this tale will turn out.

Chris Nyst has seen an opportunity to make money. He is probably defending GBC for no fees but wants the exclusive rights to a book and a film in return.

Legally he would *not* be able to do a deal of accepting no fees in return for exclusive rights to a book or film...

 

[grannie]

Chris Nyst is a not only a lawyer.... he is an author and filmmaker

So he comes as a package - a book, a movie and a legal advice.. Good value for money, eh?

 

[Even]

I'm very confident that the police have their main man, but maybe there will be others to follow.

I have a friend who works for the police (yeah I know, anyone can say that) and while she did not speak of anything before the arrest, the day he was arrested she told me they'd known it was him from day one.

While the arrest seemed a long time coming for many, really in the big picture, I think 2 months is a relatively short time. I doubt they would have nailed him so soon if they'd not been sure they could get a conviction.

One thing that did surprise me was the time it took for them to get the details of the face-time call. I realise that it could take ages for various forensic results to come back, but I would have thought such things as the phone details would have come back sooner.

Looking at the forensic manual posted on here it should have taken a couple of hours to get the logs. So not sure why it took so long. Also surprised there was no local expertise as I seem to remember them saying it was sent down to NSW for examination.