Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

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Does anyone want to take a punt on what could have been in the vacuum bag that GBC allegedly didn't want police to find? I got nothing!
 
Does anyone want to take a punt on what could have been in the vacuum bag that GBC allegedly didn't want police to find? I got nothing!

Maybe Allison's hair from boot of car??...or if others are involved...their hair too perhaps.
 
No I don't think so ..I quite clearly said what I thought in my post you've quoted...ie...GBC wanted people to "think" Allison was depressed & wandered off on her own accord.

Yes I concur that you think what you think. The likelihood that Allison wasn't depressed IMO can be compared with the likelihood that a bull has *advertiser censored* IMO. Husband having affairs, financial ruin allegedly, marriage in distress allegedly ,guess no reasons there. Her friends must be telling furbies too I guess.I guess we'll have to see what comes out. If she WAS depressed it would have been completely understandable and human and is no slant on Allison as a person. I do not think it contributed to her demise but feel the defense will use it to their advantage tragically. That was my point.
 
Yes I concur that you think what you think. The likelihood that Allison wasn't depressed IMO can be compared with the likelihood that a bull has *advertiser censored* IMO. Husband having affairs, financial ruin allegedly, marriage in distress allegedly ,guess no reasons there. Her friends must be telling furbies too I guess.I guess we'll have to see what comes out. If she WAS depressed it would have been completely understandable and human and is no slant on Allison as a person. I do not think it contributed to her demise but feel the defense will use it to their advantage tragically. That was my point.


Just wondering how the defence would use this to their advantage?

Even if Allison was depressed I'm not saying she was what relevance does it have?

Allison was Murdered

All IMO
 
Just wondering how the defence would use this to their advantage?

Even if Allison was depressed I'm not saying she was what relevance does it have?

Allison was Murdered

All IMO


If GBC is pleading innocence I can imagine that would be his case/story. What other story could he have up his sleeve? IMO Any ideas?
The police say murder he says I "I'm innocent" how can the defense follow up with his plea? IMO
My initial reference to Allison being depressed/or not was in relation to my thoughts that the defence would use this fact (if established as fact) strongly . IMO
 
Following on from the link above:-

Businessman Will Truter was watching television with his family when he heard two screams, then went out into the dark to investigate.

"While I was standing outside we heard a third sound,'' Mr Truter told The Sunday Mail from his Brookfield property, about 4km from Mrs Baden-Clay's home."It was like if someone was screaming and someone kept a hand over their mouth. That was the last we heard."

One of his neighbours who heard the same screams shouted she was going to call the police then phoned Mr Truter to check his family was all right, he revealed.

Mr Truter, who went to police last Saturday after seeing news reports of the disappearance, lives in a house near Rafting Ground Rd, a half-hour walk from Mrs Baden-Clay's Brookfield Rd house.



As I understand it, police discounted these screams as there was a party in the vicinity.

However, the neighbours questioned 3 times were in the vicinity of ABCs house, and it was an adjoining neighbour's dog, Scrap, who ran to the fence and barked incessantly around 10.00pm on the night of 19 April. These neighbours also did not call the police, after hearing loud arguing from the house. All the neighbours adjoining and others were questioned from 20 April, as police door knocked in the area of the house and more. Hope this helps.
BBM

I agree with Marlywings, as far as I know there have been no reports that police have discounted it. This was the opinion of one or two posters on here - but it didn't come from MSM or police reports. Nothing was ever said as to whether police discounted it or not, or what their actions were. I thought it was interesting at the time that this information was released and believed it had some credibility.

I actually think that back then, there was a lot more scepticism about whether GBC was the perp (although many may have suspected him), and in particular some posters were concerned about outlandish theories and sticking to the simplest explanations. But has time has gone on, I am much more open to different ideas on cause and location of death.

One thing that is significant IMO is that in the affadavit or whatever it's called that was submitted by police for the bail hearing, didn't it refer to Allison being killed "at home or other location" or something like that? I thought this might have referrred to the fact that maybe they are unsure if she was killed at home? Perhaps in the vehicle?

Actually, I would love to see a detailed examination of the facts, missing pieces and perhaps tied together speculatively with a couple of the more credible seeming rumours to revisit what we think likely, especially now in the light of the possible blood stains in the vehicle. Particularly the position of them. I wish I had the time to do this, but I haven't - right now I'm lucky to be getting an internet connection - it's driving me mad!

But there are a few things that bug me about the car, and that wording by police. Also, I think back to Hawkins mention early on that the details of the case would be very disturbing for jurors. Rumours of missing hands, Allison being hog tied, the amount of blood (if it is blood it is a lot and it's on both sides of the vehicle on the wheel mounts plus on one of the rear doors) and a few other things make me wonder - was she drowned or smothered, and perhaps tied and removed from the house, then it turned out she wasnt actually dead so further actions were taken in the car? Could a hand have been cut off to prevent DNA under fingernails being identified? Only problem with that is - I wonder about the alleged perps reasoning if he was wanting to claim insurance and wanting it to look like she had suicided or had an accident. Unless he actually thought that people may believe her murderer was someone random and unknown?

If COD was smothering or strangling I do know from articles I've read that there can be quite a bit of blood coming from nose and mouth. I know Dr W posted that he doesnt think this is the case, but here is a link which explains that in homicidal smothering "blood may ooze from the nose and mouth". http://forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=123 The info on "throttling" (sorry for the horrible word - but that's the word they've used) is also interesting. Also, in regards to blood coming from nose and moth, I'm sure someone here very recently posted that when her partner had tried to strangle her blood gushed from her nose (perhaps mouth too, not sure).
 
Great thinking Marlywings, Mothergoose and Possumheart. Hopefully it's all of those things, that would be perfect evidence IMO.
 
Yep...will it be guilty...or...not guilty....

Link for court law list...updates 6.45am & 8.45am

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/BrisbaneMagCourt.pdf

Sorry to deflate anyone's anticipation about the committal mention date tomorrow. He will not be required to plead, and a mention is held to keep the matter on the court calendar. It is likely that he will not appear, unless by video link, and it is also likely that the matter will be further remanded for another committal mention in 1, 2, or 3 months time. Remember it is still a live murder investigation and the police have a lot of matters and witnesses to pull together in a brief. Also possibly still waiting on some forensics testing to come back. There will not be any further information given out IMO, as the last information was given to substantiate the prosecutor's opposition to granting of bail.
 
If GBC is pleading innocence I can imagine that would be his case/story. What other story could he have up his sleeve? IMO Any ideas?

Mothergoose

I have been wondering this myself.

I really don't know how his defence team is going to make a jury believe his innocence if he doesn't plead guilty.:banghead:

IMO
 
I agree with Marlywings, as far as I know there have been no reports that police have discounted it. This was the opinion of one or two posters on here - but it didn't come from MSM or police reports. Nothing was ever said as to whether police discounted it or not, or what their actions were. I thought it was interesting at the time that this information was released and believed it had some credibility.

I actually think that back then, there was a lot more scepticism about whether GBC was the perp (although many may have suspected him), and in particular some posters were concerned about outlandish theories and sticking to the simplest explanations. But has time has gone on, I am much more open to different ideas on cause and location of death.

One thing that is significant IMO is that in the affadavit or whatever it's called that was submitted by police for the bail hearing, didn't it refer to Allison being killed "at home or other location" or something like that? I thought this might have referrred to the fact that maybe they are unsure if she was killed at home? Perhaps in the vehicle?

Actually, I would love to see a detailed examination of the facts, missing pieces and perhaps tied together speculatively with a couple of the more credible seeming rumours to revisit what we think likely, especially now in the light of the possible blood stains in the vehicle. Particularly the position of them. I wish I had the time to do this, but I haven't - right now I'm lucky to be getting an internet connection - it's driving me mad!

But there are a few things that bug me about the car, and that wording by police. Also, I think back to Hawkins mention early on that the details of the case would be very disturbing for jurors. Rumours of missing hands, Allison being hog tied, the amount of blood (if it is blood it is a lot and it's on both sides of the vehicle on the wheel mounts plus on one of the rear doors) and a few other things make me wonder - was she drowned or smothered, and perhaps tied and removed from the house, then it turned out she wasnt actually dead so further actions were taken in the car? Could a hand have been cut off to prevent DNA under fingernails being identified? Only problem with that is - I wonder about the alleged perps reasoning if he was wanting to claim insurance and wanting it to look like she had suicided or had an accident. Unless he actually thought that people may believe her murderer was someone random and unknown?

If COD was smothering or strangling I do know from articles I've read that there can be quite a bit of blood coming from nose and mouth. I know Dr W posted that he doesnt think this is the case, but here is a link which explains that in homicidal smothering "blood may ooze from the nose and mouth". http://forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=123 The info on "throttling" (sorry for the horrible word - but that's the word they've used) is also interesting. Also, in regards to blood coming from nose and moth, I'm sure someone here very recently posted that when her partner had tried to strangle her blood gushed from her nose (perhaps mouth too, not sure).

This is what I was thinking last night. They are arguing, go out in the car so as to not disturb the sleeping girls (they won't be far away and won't take long). They drive down Rafting Ground Rd to where the screams are later heard. They talk in the car and he may might say "Let's get in the back and make up" where he allegedly kills her. He's apparently been planning this for a while and uses a method which he thinks won't leave any blood in the car because there will be no open wounds or anything to cause bleeding, but during the trip to Kholo Creek blood exudes from her mouth and nose which he wasn't expecting. MOO
 
Yes I concur that you think what you think. The likelihood that Allison wasn't depressed IMO can be compared with the likelihood that a bull has *advertiser censored* IMO. Husband having affairs, financial ruin allegedly, marriage in distress allegedly ,guess no reasons there. Her friends must be telling furbies too I guess.I guess we'll have to see what comes out. If she WAS depressed it would have been completely understandable and human and is no slant on Allison as a person. I do not think it contributed to her demise but feel the defense will use it to their advantage tragically. That was my point.

I am wondering whether Allison's friends knew she was depressed because she told them. The fact that Allison's mother was not aware makes me think that it would be unlikely Allison would have told her friends.
I have suffered from deep depression a number of times and those closest to me (my husband and my mother) pick up on it straight away. Even my doctor says he can tell its back as soon as I walk in the room. I can't believe Allison's mum or sister would not have known she was suffering from a depression deep enough to cause people to mention it. My mum can even tell by my voice on the phone.
This is difficult to talk about, but at my worst, when I was in so much emotional pain and turmoil, when to go to sleep and never wake up would have been a relief, I have NEVER EVER considered suicide. As a mother I could not inflict such pain on my children and family to escape my pain.
IMO, even if Allison was depressed, as a mother she could not and would not have been so selfish as to inflict such pain on her children.
And if the defence were to use it as a strategy , shame on them and I hope the jury would realise that this could not have happened. I think that GBC thinks the depression angle would be believable because he does not have the selflessness that Allison possessed.
 
Sorry to deflate anyone's anticipation about the committal mention date tomorrow. He will not be required to plead, and a mention is held to keep the matter on the court calendar. It is likely that he will not appear, unless by video link, and it is also likely that the matter will be further remanded for another committal mention in 1, 2, or 3 months time. Remember it is still a live murder investigation and the police have a lot of matters and witnesses to pull together in a brief. Also possibly still waiting on some forensics testing to come back. There will not be any further information given out IMO, as the last information was given to substantiate the prosecutor's opposition to granting of bail.

So you think the following won't be happening tomorrow??...

The defendant’s first day in court is called the ‘mention’ date, which they must not miss.

There are no witnesses at the first mention and the magistrate makes all decisions based on the information presented.

What happens
The first mention may proceed as follows:

•when the magistrate is ready, the depositions clerk calls the defendant into the courtroom
•the deposition clerk will call ‘all rise’ as the magistrate enters and sits at the bench
•the prosecutor then stands and reads out the charges against the defendant
•the magistrate asks the defendant ‘how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?’ and the defence lawyer (or the defendant) will stand and respond

http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/justi...ourt/magistrates-court/the-first-mention-date
 
Mothergoose

I have been wondering this myself.

I really don't know how his defence team is going to make a jury believe his innocence if he doesn't plead guilty.:banghead:

IMO

I can't think of anything else the defence could construct/invent IMO a case on..What is there? If that's it I think he's a cooked goose IMO.........................(who said cooked goose?) :what:
 
I can't think of anything else the defence could construct/invent IMO a case on..What is there? If that's it I think he's a cooked goose IMO.........................(who said cooked goose?) :what:

Geese...??? OT :floorlaugh:
 
I was under the impression a body would only bleed to the extent of what can be seen in the back of the car if the heart was still beating to pump the blood out.
Perhaps Allison was still alive but unconscious when placed in the back of the car. She regains consciousness in the car and screams. Maybe thats when the face scratching occurred. All IMO
 
Does anyone want to take a punt on what could have been in the vacuum bag that GBC allegedly didn't want police to find? I got nothing!

More hair from the hair trim left overs?
Dirt from walk they did at creek?
Grass and seeds fom creek....dead leaves as a well?
 
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