Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

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I've thought about this myself Fergie, and I came to the conclusion that the idea of Allison committing suicide would be very difficult to believe.

For one thing, a loving mother as Allison was reported to be, would not easily leave her children in the care of a man who could very likely (given his affair with TM) have other children - thus necessitating that any financial and emotional resources GBC had to give the girls would be even more scarce. Very few people would believe this loving mother, no matter how depressed, would kill herself. I suffered extreme depression after I discovered my ex's affair and I wanted the pain to go away...but this is a far cry from actually visualising suicide, let alone going through with the act of killing oneself. I neither visualised the act, nor tried to do myself in and I doubt Allison, who had three beautiful reasons to live, would have even contemplated killing herself...and I think GBC knew noone would believe it either.

Second, even if she was to commit suicide, I think her apparent love for her daughters would have seen her leaving some kind of last 'love letter' to her children. If GBC was going to fake a suicide then he'd have the added problem of faking a note.

Just my opinion.

While I don't for a minute believe Allison comitted suicide, I have to say my younger brother, who also had three beautiful daughters he adored, did commit suicide, (who knows why exactly) even in the face of undying love for his girls.

Similarly, I have a good friend who has five children she adores, In recent times she has made more than one attempt to take her life. I am very frightened for her as we speak. She is having first class care, her family are vigilant and loving, nevertheless only she is ultimately in control of her fate.

Sorry to be depressing :frown:

JMO MOO
 
Haven't we heard that Bawana has a bad temper?
Perhaps GBC is covering for someone else?


That's all I got!
Yes, but GBC had deep scratches under his right arm, on his chest, neck and face. Just a thought. MOO
 
Good morning everyone!
I have been a bit busy, but have just managed to read through the various posts. There is a couple missing here in Cairns and it is interesting given some of the previous posts to see how the family of this couple, as well as an ex, are pleading with the public for information. This is how the CM reported it this morning.

A CAIRNS father has choked back tears while confronting the possibility his missing son and daughter-in-law could have met with foul play.

Scott Maitland, 35, and wife Cindy Masonwells, 33, were last seen on Thursday night last week when they picked up their green panel van from a repair shop in*suburban Bungalow.

The couple, who have a house at Gordonvale, south of Cairns, recently moved to Mount Isa to work at the mines and had flown to Cairns that night for a friend's engagement party and to pick up their car which had been repaired after being stolen earlier this year.

Scott's father, Wayne Maitland, made an emotional plea yesterday.

"The concern we've got is how can two people just disappear," Mr Maitland said.

"He knew the town, he knew most of the people in the town so there's got to be someone who knows or (has) seen him."

Cairns CIB Detective Senior Sergeant Ed Kinbacher said a major incident room had been set up to find the couple, with investigators from Brisbane arriving in Cairns today.

"There appears to be two main possibilities - there is a third-party involvement that has caused this event or alternatively there has been an accident in the vehicle and they haven't been located," he said.

"Their accounts, their phones and any other normal types of interactions with the community have stopped since they arrived in Cairns."

Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said police were not ruling out a link between the panel van being stolen in mid-April from a workshop at suburban Portsmith and the couple's disappearance.

He said Scott Maitland had followed up inquiries which led to the vehicle's recovery.

"There are a range of suspicious circumstances and it is highly concerning," Det Sen-Sgt Kinbacher said.

A friend of the pair, Jodi Noden, said the disappearance was out of character.

"It's very unlike the two not to be in contact," she said.

"Cindy has a huge personality, very bright, bubbly and fun with a wicked sense of humour.

"They went to the mines to knock off their mortgage. Scott is a boilermaker and Cindy is a driver at the mines."

Donna Astill, Scott's ex-partner and mother of his teenage child, has set up a Facebook page to appeal for information.

The mystery comes as North Queensland police also investigate the disappearance of gold prospector Bruce Schuler.

Anyone with information on either case should phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

Wow, Rational...I feel a new thread coming on! that is suspicious as all hell, and quite obvious the differences between the families reactions. We shall have to do some local sleuthing, you and I!
 
I agree Doc. I think the reason that suicide was inferred was simply because the initial "random stranger attack" hadn't deflected Police suspicion and someone was grasping at straws. IMO

If GBC killed her for insurance surely he would want the body to be found, he needed the death certificate. In my opinion he knew about the geocache and knew it would only be a matter of time until the body was found.
 
For those who may have missed my post from very late last night (I had a VERY long day), the above quote is from it, and to me, this is one of the major sticking points.

WHY was NBC at the roundabout - for what purpose? If he'd arranged to meet GBC, what was wrong with meeting at the NBC home, or if he didn't want EBC involved, then "I'll see you round the corner at the bottom of our street"? Or even - I'll come round to your place.

And why sit at the bus stop? Wouldn't you sit in your car if you'd driven to a rendezvous? It's a pretty long walk from the NBC house to the Kenmore roundabout.... So where WAS the BWANA-mobile while he was sitting at the bus stop? And if he then went with GBC in the Captiva - when did he come back to wherever the BWANAmobile was parked and retrieve it?

That whole Kenmore roundabout thing has me perplexed - there are WAY too many unanswered questions. Was he actually there at all? Is that just rumour? And why are the QPS concentrating on it so much?

BIG mystery right there, for me.....

OK - back to the real world, but will be checking in from time to time. WS will show me as logged in, as the computer just sits here permanently logged in, even though I may be busy elsewhere, so please excuse any delays in replying.

I think it was suggested some time back that perhaps NBC walked to the bus stop so his car wouldn't be seen leaving his house or be seen anywhere else in the area that night.

These are the posts from squzzey, the member who first posted about NBC being seen at the bus stop....

#773 05-31-2012, 02:07 PM
squizzey1
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 289

new on here and have heard a lot from friends in the area. some interesting points 1. a witness was told ABC was strangled. 2. same witness told there was batwater in lungs.3 same witness saw something strange at roundabout, it was BC senior sitting in bus shelter late that night. 4. has been said all hard drives were blank ,interesting. BUT BC senior computer supposidly googled the scout camp late that night. not known facts just info told to me by friends

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7987628#post7987628"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15 - Page 31 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
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#912 05-31-2012, 04:50 PM
squizzey1
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 289

definately. they know him and stopped and asked if he was ok as they thought it very odd

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7988400#post7988400"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15 - Page 37 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
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#165 06-05-2012, 02:57 PM
squizzey1
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 289

That was me some time ago. A local who knows the family saw NBC at the bus shelter late that night{not sure of exact time around 11 or 11.30 I believe}. Since she knew him and it seemed extremely odd she stopped and asked if he was ok {Initially thought he may be drunk} He said he was ok so she let him be. very reliable info. its just i wasnt told the exact time.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8011490#post8011490"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #18 - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
While I don't for a minute beleive Allison comitted suicide, I have to say my younger brother, who also had three beautiful daughters he adored, did commit suicide, (who knows why exactly) even in the face of undying love for his girls.

Similarly, I have a good friend who has five children she adores, In recent times she has mad more than one attempt to take her life. I am very frightened for her as we speak. She is having first class care, her family are vigilant and loving, nevertheless only she is ultimately in control of her fate.

Sorry to be depressing :frown:

JMO MOO

That's very sad... about your brother and your friend.
You're right , there aren't always the classic tell tale signs that someone will do this. I've read where, even when they have been very depressed of late, once the decision has been made to end their life, they can appear bright and bubbly so people around them breathe a sigh of relief... but the reason fort the brighter outlook can be because they know it will soon be over for them. Even people trained in this field can't always pick it, as everyone is different.

I also think that it's not a reflection on how much you do or don't love your family, because once you get to feeling this down then you're no longer who you really are. You've already sunk so far down that reality isn't working. People can keep telling you things will be ok, give it time, but in this state of mind all you can see is doom.

I've never agreed with the statement that committing suicide is a cowards way out. I hate when people say that. To me, it just means that someone has gone to the very depths of sadness and their take on reality is far removed from what's real. It can happen to very normal, everyday people who seem to have it all.

I feel I have to add, that having said all of the above, I do not believe for one second that Allison committed suicide. Just thought I'd add that incase it's misunderstood. :)
 
While I don't for a minute beleive Allison comitted suicide, I have to say my younger brother, who also had three beautiful daughters he adored, did commit suicide, (who knows why exactly) even in the face of undying love for his girls.

Similarly, I have a good friend who has five children she adores, In recent times she has mad more than one attempt to take her life. I am very frightened for her as we speak. She is having first class care, her family are vigilant and loving, nevertheless only she is ultimately in control of her fate.

Sorry to be depressing :frown:

JMO MOO

It is a terrible terrible illness depression, isnt it? and it consumes someone, they reach a point of such deep deep despair, that there is no way out, they cannot see past the emptiness. And what is very frightening, on top of this, is that some people can hide this extremely well.

I have suffered depression for nearly 20 years, with a couple of major episodes that went for 6 - 12 months. They were exacerbated by personal situations, particularly when my son suffered through years of hurt and confusion before he was diagnosed with Aspergers, anxiety and a couple of other bits and pieces (just more initials)

I was consumed with despair, anger, guilt, worry, and sometimes would stay in my room for days, only coming out when I had to. I still managed to go to uni, take the kids to school, feed them, and if I bumped into people whilst I was out, I chatted happily and normally. I didnt so much put on a happy face, it was like I felt better when I was forced to do things. but the minute I got back home, I would feel awful again. I never reached a point that I thought about suicide, but I reached the point were I said to my husband, I dont want to be here anymore, he asked what I meant but I didnt know what I meant, I just wanted to be away from all this. That was enough for him to quit his job in WA, and come home, and its all good now, and my son is great too.

anyway thats all very offtopic, but suicide can seem to be out of the blue for families and loved ones, but it can be hidden quite well by functioning adults.

I also dont feel that suicide is a factor in this case either
 
Maybe Allison wasn't dumped directly into Ugly Creek, but left on a bank somewhere and the heavy rain that weekend washed her into it but by the time she floated down to Kholo Creek, the water had started to subside and she came to a stop under the bridge? MOO

That is exactly what I think happened BJS - I couldn't have said it better :)
 
Sorry Sleepyhead here missed all the good stuff last night but had to put her two cents worth in!!!!

I am THE BIGGEST cynic and for me the moment I heard that ABC was missing, and that GBC had reportedly been the one who last saw her - that was it for me. I know so much for innocent until proven guilty! Sorry WSleuthers. But a few days down the track things were becoming more obvious. GBC's profile in the local area is way too 'look at me' and he professes that he is so squeaky clean with my real estate and important business dealings and I love networking and meeting people. And wow now suddenly press are being closed down and he goes into hiding even hospital. This whole scenario is totally in conflict to his gradiose and larger than life persona he tries to procure.

Then there is the ' come on OW, we are good at the media and talking, lets face them, we'll blow them away with our public speaking prowess'-he puts on his poor little me persona, and it is 'lets trust the police are doing everything' - and 'I've helped the police all I can' (past tense btw -nothing more he can do) And there's OW ready to poke him in the back and say shutup Gerard. Why did she not have her arm around him in support and talk about if any one has ANY slightest bit of info please come forward. Never all they have done is close ranks and ask for privacy.

The one good thing tho is that the dickies have the girls and the press do seem to keep away from that side of the story. Thank heavens.

And to the legal minds out there - if NBC is arrested or OW for that matter, would that mean they couldn't be called at GBC's trial?

If a dual suspect is called as a witness, does that come under the 'hostile witness' thing? If another suspect is called up I'd imagine they would have to be aware that their evidence could very well be self serving. Not really likely to tell the truth are they? Does the term 'hostile witness' even exist in Australia?
 
Bump :bump:

Great post Minni-moo :)

DrWatson, everything about this case doesn't slot into place neatly, we obviously have very limited information at this stage.

1. blood in car yet no visibe injury: makes no sense

2. why wasnt she washed into the brisbane river: the only thing I can think of maybe is the water levels may have risen just to the bottom of the lower pipe, which then acted as a barrier. but if you try to look at that scenario, it doesnt gel either, weighing her down would keep her there Ie the chains, but again that doesnt fit in with the suicide or the insurance.


3. body place further upstream: It makes more sense to put her further upstream due to ease and seclusion. again, doesnt cover insurance scam

4. debt: we are assuming, that this was the motivation for killing her, especially when we connect it to the insurance policy Allison had.. I think maybe this is just sensationalism from the media...every little iota of debt uncovered makes for a better story, the bigger the debt, the more likely he did it for money! its not as exciting if you say he had a perfectly normal amount of debt, or suspicious. Also, it could be plausible that the calls to the insurance company were going to be to cancel them, if they were trying to budget and cut costs

5. the roundabout: well this is just confusing from beginning to end. so many questions here, again makes no sense. The most logical explanation for the back and forth, the father, the cars, etc would be if it was not a planned murder, but a situation that got out of control. the bits we have heard seem so sloppy and unorganised.

6. screams: makes no sense either, not when the police state that she was murdered in her own home. Even if they were Allisons and they may have been caused by GBC, which would be more than possible if there was an argument and he became violent and hurt her (prior to killing her), why would they be so far from home? why didnt more people witness something?


One possibility that might work and explain the blood in the car, the screams, and some of the roundabout, is that maybe he could have followed her after she stormed out to get some fresh air, ie she DID go for a walk, but it was in anger, to clear her head. She might have threatened him with 'something' in her anger and he was worried she'd follow through with it so he follows her, hits her, muffles her screams (heard around 10pm), knocks her out etc.

Could he have killed her here trying to shut her up? if this happened, he would have to run home, grab the car (which was seen driving erratically down brookfield road at 11pm) put her in it, and bring her home? and maybe he doesnt feel he can take her back to the house where the children are, so parks it at the brooky showgrounds (where it was seen by a local I think) while he goes home, freaks out and calls daddy?
He wont go via RGRoad, to pick NBC up, he wants to steer clear of there. So he gets him via Kenmore, takes him out to the house, where they do their business, get both cars etc and drive out through kenmore. again, avoiding RG Road and near where her screams may have been heard.

It doesnt answer all the questions by far, but the timing of events as we know it, flow with this. It also takes the money out of the equation and therefore allows the more sensible hiding of the body at Little Ugly Creek. As I read your points this morning Doc, it became clear to me that it looks like it happened suddenly, in the heat of the moment, and he spent the remainder of the night, cleaning up so to speak. still many questions about the bus stop etc
 
Haha! This is so true. My ex was like this. Basically deep down it is a huge inferiority complex covered by a mask of superior behaviour, and the affairs and other interactions that engender adoration of some sort by others are all orchestrated to keep providing them with the reassurance that they are OK. They come to hate the one they love because someone who is real, and who has entered into a relationship genuinely trying to know their partner intimately, inevitably discovers who they really are.

The worst thing that can happen to someone like this is to be truly known. It can be summed up in a variation of a classic saying "If you get to know the real me then I'll have to kill you". Their hatred of their loved one is also exacerbated if that person is someone smarter, more accomplished and full of goodness. The stark contrast to how they see themselves can be too much to take, yet they were drawn to it at the beginning because that person possessed what they didn't have within themselves.

:rocker:
Absolutely spot on!!

IMO MOO
 
That's very sad... about your brother and your friend.
You're right , there aren't always the classic tell tale signs that someone will do this. I've read where, even when they have been very depressed of late, once the decision has been made to end their life, they can appear bright and bubbly so people around them breathe a sigh of relief... but the reason fort the brighter outlook can be because they know it will soon be over for them. Even people trained in this field can't always pick it, as everyone is different.

I also think that it's not a reflection on how much you do or don't love your family, because once you get to feeling this down then you're no longer who you really are. You've already sunk so far down that reality isn't working. People can keep telling you things will be ok, give it time, but in this state of mind all you can see is doom.

I've never agreed with the statement that committing suicide is a cowards way out. I hate when people say that. To me, it just means that someone has gone to the very depths of sadness and their take on reality is far removed from what's real. It can happen to very normal, everyday people who seem to have it all.

I feel I have to add, that having said all of the above, I do not believe for one second that Allison committed suicide. Just thought I'd add that incase it's misunderstood. :)

People who commit suicide don't want to stop living, they just want to stop the pain.
 
I found this clipping that I cut out of the CM. It ran two weeks in a row before GBC was arrested. Unfortunately i lost the clipping just after I cut it out but now here it is attached.

I find the similarities to the GBC case quite interesting. The timing of running the story by CM was quite pertinent too.

Cheers.
FIRSTTIMER: Thanks for posting this article. Very interesting, it seems the son had much power in that family, so much so that his parents have covered up and 'protected' him - despite the fact that he killed another human being.
 
It is a terrible terrible illness depression, isnt it? and it consumes someone, they reach a point of such deep deep despair, that there is no way out, they cannot see past the emptiness. And what is very frightening, on top of this, is that some people can hide this extremely well.

I have suffered depression for nearly 20 years, with a couple of major episodes that went for 6 - 12 months. They were exacerbated by personal situations, particularly when my son suffered through years of hurt and confusion before he was diagnosed with Aspergers, anxiety and a couple of other bits and pieces (just more initials)

I was consumed with despair, anger, guilt, worry, and sometimes would stay in my room for days, only coming out when I had to. I still managed to go to uni, take the kids to school, feed them, and if I bumped into people whilst I was out, I chatted happily and normally. I didnt so much put on a happy face, it was like I felt better when I was forced to do things. but the minute I got back home, I would feel awful again. I never reached a point that I thought about suicide, but I reached the point were I said to my husband, I dont want to be here anymore, he asked what I meant but I didnt know what I meant, I just wanted to be away from all this. That was enough for him to quit his job in WA, and come home, and its all good now, and my son is great too.

anyway thats all very offtopic, but suicide can seem to be out of the blue for families and loved ones, but it can be hidden quite well by functioning adults.

I also dont feel that suicide is a factor in this case either

Oh, Minni, I really feel for you. Lucky you had a husband who was good enough to just give it all up and come home. I've also had the feeling of "I just don't want to be here anymore." Knowing that I was even thinking this scared me to bits. It can be really hard to drag yourself out of it. There was just so much going on in my life that I felt even going to counselling wouldn't help and that noone would understand. That's why I'm grateful that I am basically an optimistic type of person... but doesn't always help much.
 
People who commit suicide don't want to stop living, they just want to stop the pain.
Thankyou, spot on!!!
Once again, someone has come along and condensed all of my rambling into one simple sentence. haha
Why can't I be one of those people who just write what they mean in easy to understand terms?
 
Thankyou, spot on!!!
Once again, someone has come along and condensed all of my rambling into one simple sentence. haha
Why can't I be one of those people who just write what they mean in easy to understand terms?

I understand your ramblings, keep them going!
 
I have a task I need to complete and then I'm coming back to see about the posts regarding psychics, astrology and tarot. There are plenty of forums that discuss those things and WS isn't one of them. I asked Summer to explain that earlier when I was at work and I just saw at least one other post was made about it AFTER Summer's explanation.

Please edit your posts about those issues before I get back or those who continued to post after Summer's explanation might find themselves in Time Out.

:nono:
 
It is a terrible terrible illness depression, isnt it? and it consumes someone, they reach a point of such deep deep despair, that there is no way out, they cannot see past the emptiness. And what is very frightening, on top of this, is that some people can hide this extremely well.

I have suffered depression for nearly 20 years, with a couple of major episodes that went for 6 - 12 months. They were exacerbated by personal situations, particularly when my son suffered through years of hurt and confusion before he was diagnosed with Aspergers, anxiety and a couple of other bits and pieces (just more initials)

I was consumed with despair, anger, guilt, worry, and sometimes would stay in my room for days, only coming out when I had to. I still managed to go to uni, take the kids to school, feed them, and if I bumped into people whilst I was out, I chatted happily and normally. I didnt so much put on a happy face, it was like I felt better when I was forced to do things. but the minute I got back home, I would feel awful again. I never reached a point that I thought about suicide, but I reached the point were I said to my husband, I dont want to be here anymore, he asked what I meant but I didnt know what I meant, I just wanted to be away from all this. That was enough for him to quit his job in WA, and come home, and its all good now, and my son is great too.

anyway thats all very offtopic, but suicide can seem to be out of the blue for families and loved ones, but it can be hidden quite well by functioning adults.

I also dont feel that suicide is a factor in this case either

I am very pleased you chose to stay Minni
 
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